Pastoralis Praeeminentiae

[DeathAdder]

2 minutes ago, Rustikus said:

He does feel the same, he will come out again and do what he always does cause lot of damage to his enemies.

 

His lacking tech to infra ratio makes me doubt that, but hey, maybe he'll be in range and he and I will get to play.

[Mandystalin]

13 minutes ago, Auctor said:

This idea that we're supposed to cough up sources inside an ongoing conspiracy and do your own internal policing for you is silly as all get out. This idea that any of us owes any of you anything is foolishness.

 

Oh my word...

 

"We're going to war with you, but you have to work out why"

 

...

[Auctor]

Of course we never alerted TTK government that TTK government is embroiled in a conspiracy to attack us before we took action. That would be ludicrous - your crummy opsec does not necessitate all others having abysmal opsec. It's your responsibility to keep your own house in order and not ours to go around soliciting lies from your less active government members that may or may not be aware of what the others are doing.

[Mandystalin]

49 minutes ago, Lord Hitchcock said:

 

There is plenty of material out there

There is indeed plenty of material out there on the membership of TTK gov. Which is why I am surprised.

[Mandystalin]

14 minutes ago, Auctor said:

Of course we never alerted TTK government that TTK government is embroiled in a conspiracy to attack us before we took action. That would be ludicrous - your crummy opsec does not necessitate all others having abysmal opsec. It's your responsibility to keep your own house in order and not ours to go around soliciting lies from your less active government members that may or may not be aware of what the others are doing.

 

So I see you've looked me up now

 

I also must bow to your knowledge of the relative activity levels of our gov members. Assuredly it is greater than the knowledge of a TTK gov member.

 

But sarcasm aside. What lies have I told? Find one.

 

Bottom Line, if you actually had proof - the proof others have claimed is plentiful and obvious - you would be shouting it from the rooftops. Look everybody, look what we found, look how hypocritical those holier-than-thou Templars are, etc etc. Rubbing our faces in it all the way. 

Bottom Bottom Line (if that makes any sense  ), you still haven't actually told anybody what it is you claim we did. And we're back to my initial textwall and the circular argument continues. See you on page 12

[Rustikus]

19 minutes ago, Auctor said:

Of course we never alerted TTK government that TTK government is embroiled in a conspiracy to attack us before we took action. That would be ludicrous - your crummy opsec does not necessitate all others having abysmal opsec. It's your responsibility to keep your own house in order and not ours to go around soliciting lies from your less active government members that may or may not be aware of what the others are doing.

 

So a then member of TTK (now former member) is doing something you think is inappropriate and instead of contacting gov to ask them to  put a stop to these activities then you assume without any evidence that they are involved. You have shown no evidence of gov involvement at all.

[AlmightyGrub]

20 minutes ago, Mandystalin said:

There is indeed plenty of material out there on the membership of TTK gov. Which is why I am surprised.

 

I think that your contribution to this thread could be summed up as ''shocked disbelief'' followed by some ''random assumptions of facts not in evidence'' and finalized by ''grasping desperately at straws''

 

You need to read things issued by the Holy Church herself, not the ramblings of associated members of the peanut gallery.  The Holy Church has sought answers to questions, determined the truthfulness of the answers and at the conclusion weighed the evidence and embarked on a Holy Inquisition.  The fact that you did not expect such inquisition is hardly your fault.

 

Without being trite, the evidence was compelling.   There is no confusion within the Holy Church.  There is also no need for the evidence to be made public whilst there are still further sinners to be brought back to glory by the Inquisition.  The evidence exists, you may freely access it upon your own inquiry with those concerned.

 

Go forth and sin no more.

[Mandystalin]

Oh I see... it is a matter of faith.

 

Seeking answers apparently doesn't extend to actually talking with the people you believe to be at fault, so pardon me if I am hesitant to accept your assurances.

 

 

Edit - I replied in haste, never a good idea. Shocked disbelief is actually a pretty good description of my initial reaction. It is traditionally the reaction of those falsely accused of a crime. Particularly one whose exact nature is not only withheld but is apparently not even agreed upon. I prefer to think of my subsequent posts as seeking the truth, but I suppose opinions can differ. And actually the fact that my debating style is being attacked rather than my argument is a good indicator that I am hitting home. Any moment now some senior Oculus member will post that I'm a hater, and then I'll know I've upset their applecart  

Edited July 31, 2017 by Mandystalin
forgot some stuff

[Rustikus]

5 minutes ago, AlmightyGrub said:

 

I think that your contribution to this thread could be summed up as ''shocked disbelief'' followed by some ''random assumptions of facts not in evidence'' and finalized by ''grasping desperately at straws''

 

You need to read things issued by the Holy Church herself, not the ramblings of associated members of the peanut gallery.  The Holy Church has sought answers to questions, determined the truthfulness of the answers and at the conclusion weighed the evidence and embarked on a Holy Inquisition.  The fact that you did not expect such inquisition is hardly your fault.

 

Without being trite, the evidence was compelling.   There is no confusion within the Holy Church.  There is also no need for the evidence to be made public whilst there are still further sinners to be brought back to glory by the Inquisition.  The evidence exists, you may freely access it upon your own inquiry with those concerned.

 

Go forth and sin no more.

 

So yet again no evidence to be shown ... none at all. Therefore the conclusion can only be that there is none as you are too afraid to show it.

 

If you have evidence of involvement of others (probably other AAs) why don't you just take action or is it too much for Oculus to fight the horrible TTK with its 50 members?

[Noctis Lucis Caelum]

43 minutes ago, Rustikus said:

 

So a then member of TTK (now former member) is doing something you think is inappropriate and instead of contacting gov to ask them to  put a stop to these activities then you assume without any evidence that they are involved. You have shown no evidence of gov involvement at all.

As I mentioned here, I did contact Blackatron's gov & he did not care about Gh0s7 trying to escalate a war with us; with us allied with Non Grata. So Blackatron knew & Gh0s7 didn't leave to join another alliance temp until after Caustic made reference to there being logs of him scheming against Oculus. However your gov never once took any action against Gh0s7 despite knowing he was trying to escalate things with Oculus & their allies.

I can't remember the last time there has been a CB as solid as this one, but its pointless to waste more time explaining it to you guys when its not the truth you seek; just a desire to try spinning the reality. There is plenty of evidence, very solid evidence. I wouldn't be vouching for this war being very justified if I wasn't sure the evidence was there. So you guys can keep whining about not being able to get away with trying to provoke wars with direct allies of Oculus & knowingly keeping a member in your ranks who was plotting against Oculus; although it makes little difference.

 

I think my post was plenty to convince any reasonable person this war was well justified, so its just mostly TTK complaining because your plot failing. So at least the respectable alliances who care about right and wrong won't be tricked into thinking you guys are a victim here.

 

Your gov was very supportive of Gh0s7 violating the Non-Aggression Principle against Aevum; despite us having done nothing to you guys. So I see no reason they should even need to justify the war against you guys. Also there is no need for most of those supportive of the war to assume the evidence is there, since many of us have seen it & know for a fact what you guys were up to.

 

 

You guys brought this upon yourselves by violating the Golden Rule, so your excuses are very pathetic I think.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Noctis Lucis Caelum

[Rustikus]

Show some evidence of the knowledge that Blackatron had about the activities of Gh0s7 and when?

 

You post lot  of claims without sharing any evidence. Until you show some evidence then I am going to assume you have none or are too afraid to show it as it will be nothing really.

[Noctis Lucis Caelum]

17 minutes ago, Rustikus said:

Show some evidence of the knowledge that Blackatron had about the activities of Gh0s7 and when?

 

You post lot  of claims without sharing any evidence. Until you show some evidence then I am going to assume you have none or are too afraid to show it as it will be nothing really.

Lol, I'm not afraid of you or anyone else. I would be willing to show you proof Blackatron knew about Gh0s7 activities in requesting me sanctioned; with him not caring when I notified him. Although I see no reason to share it with you unless you want to make a bet with me regarding it, so I would have some kind of incentive to show.

 

If you want me to prove definitely Blackatron was aware of Gh0s7's activities against me regarding the sanction & used Gh0s7 conducting FA affairs for a great number of people as his excuse for his member's aggression towards me when I approached him asking about; you would need to bet a slot of $9m/100t for me to care enough to prove it to you. If you don't take the bet, then I'll just have to assume you're full of hot air & just want to waste my time.

 

(Although I'm not going to show you the proof of him conspiring against Oculus directly regardless, since I don't share classified information)

Edited July 31, 2017 by Noctis Lucis Caelum

[AlmightyGrub]

55 minutes ago, Rustikus said:

Show some evidence of the knowledge that Blackatron had about the activities of Gh0s7 and when?

 

You post lot  of claims without sharing any evidence. Until you show some evidence then I am going to assume you have none or are too afraid to show it as it will be nothing really.

 

I like the way your logic works, I really do.  Unfortunately our desire to share does not at all have any bearing on the existence of the evidence.  You need to get the right dots before you can form a picture, right now you are scribbling madly with a crayon and pretending you have a ''Mona Lisa'' .  You can seek the evidence for yourself, you can conduct your own investigations.  Just because you can not find the same evidence merely means you are a really !@#$ detective not that the crime was not committed.

 

When the Inquisition is concluded the Holy Church MAY at its own discretion reveal the nature of the screamed confessions, but it is unlikely that we would break the bond between the sinner and his salvation in such a self-serving manner.

 

Repent or Die.

[commanderragnar]

4 hours ago, DeathAdder said:

Admin really needs to add a like button. >.>

 

4 hours ago, CrinkledStraw said:

 

Agreed. 

 

Ragnar, that was beautiful.

Thank you. I'm here forever. 

 

 

o/ War

o/ Pacifica 

o/ Whoever gets my aid as I can't fight. 

 

You can't expect to plot and not get caught, this is the world we live in. Here's to a good fight. 

[Noctis Lucis Caelum]

2 hours ago, AlmightyGrub said:

 

I like the way your logic works, I really do.  Unfortunately our desire to share does not at all have any bearing on the existence of the evidence.  You need to get the right dots before you can form a picture, right now you are scribbling madly with a crayon and pretending you have a ''Mona Lisa'' .  You can seek the evidence for yourself, you can conduct your own investigations.  Just because you can not find the same evidence merely means you are a really !@#$ detective not that the crime was not committed.

 

When the Inquisition is concluded the Holy Church MAY at its own discretion reveal the nature of the screamed confessions, but it is unlikely that we would break the bond between the sinner and his salvation in such a self-serving manner.

 

Repent or Die.

Grub

 

You have a great way with words, nice to be on the same side as you. Interesting how he suddenly got real quiet on his willingness to back up his accusations when paying up a slot of cash/tech came up if he was full of BS; but could have made some quick cash/tech if he wasn't. lol

[The Big Bad]

7 hours ago, Mandystalin said:

 

I am going with nothing - I am simply following good debating technique by not getting sucked into a different argument and thereby losing sight of my point.

 

And my point remains the utter absurdity that all of Oculus can go to war against my beloved little alliance... and yet they can't agree why.

 

 

Until this issue is addressed, there is just no point in carrying on the debate 

 

Yes this debate is pointless since you clearly have no information on the subject. People in your government do.  Go see them, get the information and come back when you know what you are talking about.  You seem to think that anybody beyond your own alliance has any obligation to keep you informed.  They do not not.  Oculus does not need to convince anybody beyond Oculus that the information they have is valid and worthy of action.  You do not even know what the information is and yet want to debate on the validity of it.  All along demanding that those you debate provide that information for you.  You do know how ridiculous that is right?  

[MaineGOP]

4 minutes ago, The Big Bad said:

 

Yes this debate is pointless since you clearly have no information on the subject. People in your government do.  Go see them, get the information and come back when you know what you are talking about.  You seem to think that anybody beyond your own alliance has any obligation to keep you informed.  They do not not.  Oculus does not need to convince anybody beyond Oculus that the information they have is valid and worthy of action.  You do not even know what the information is and yet want to debate on the validity of it.  All along demanding that those you debate provide that information for you.  You do know how ridiculous that is right?  

 

Because asking for a CB and evidence to back it up is a brand new concept in CN....

[Lord Hitchcock]

1 hour ago, MaineGOP said:

 

Because asking for a CB and evidence to back it up is a brand new concept in CN....

 

it's pretty adolescent 

[MaineGOP]

Just now, Lord Hitchcock said:

 

it's pretty adolescent 

 

Odd I feel like its a senior citizen...

[Lord Konstantine]

Yeah we're pretty aware of how Oculus decisions are formed as well.

 

Oculus Leadership: - Let's squash (insert random alliance)
Oculus Membership - Do we have a reason?
Oculus Leadership: - Do we need one? We'll claim some obscure insult somewhere, no need to prove it. Nobody can stand up to us!

Oculus Membership - Right, to war!

 

[Jesse End]

I feel terrible that the peanut gallery court hasn't been provided enough information to properly judge the situation.

 

Can somebody please compile a list for me of OWF posters that Oculus may consult before we make any decisions in the future?

[MaineGOP]

25 minutes ago, Lord Konstantine said:

Yeah we're pretty aware of how Oculus decisions are formed as well.

 

Oculus Leadership: - Let's squash (insert random alliance)
Oculus Membership - Do we have a reason?
Oculus Leadership: - Do we need one? We'll claim some obscure insult somewhere, no need to prove it. Nobody can stand up to us!

Oculus Membership - Right, to war!

 

 

Wow you could replace Oculus with (any NPO Hegemony) and change the year to any year. I mean legit this reminds me of 2006 in decision making...

[MaineGOP]

Just now, Jesse End said:

I feel terrible that the peanut gallery court hasn't been provided enough information to properly judge the situation.

 

Can somebody please compile a list for me of OWF posters that Oculus may consult before we make any decisions in the future?

See you have it wrong. Your decision is yours to make. The OWF judges the validity of it and this can effect future treaties and opinions of said alliance. I do charge for basic CN advice though, so please fill my aid slots  

[Jesse End]

Just now, MaineGOP said:

See you have it wrong. Your decision is yours to make. The OWF judges the validity of it and this can effect future treaties and opinions of said alliance. I do charge for basic CN advice though, so please fill my aid slots  

 

If someone judges our worthiness of future treaties by postings on the OWF, I'm more than happy to leave that door completely closed.

[MaineGOP]

Just now, Jesse End said:

 

If someone judges our worthiness of future treaties by postings on the OWF, I'm more than happy to leave that door completely closed.

 

No, wow, maybe comprehension isn't taught in Pacifica.... People judge alliances by their actions. If people believe you attack people randomly without CB's that might effect future relations. I mean this is pretty basic, ignore this current situation, the concept is basic man....