H2BKs Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 cverf Yes, it would appear to believe that a treaty is an actual treaty and that's a promise is an actual promise on Digiterra is delusional. We just never learned the tried and true Digiterra move of treatying an alliance then cancelling when things get tough. Dame Hime Themis Hime you're sound so stupid every time you bring up promises. Cuba doesn't believe in promises! You're being used and you'll soon be r@$%# so hard that you'll regret believing in his "word" I really do hope you come to your sense and see what everyone is WARNING you about. Don't blind yourself or try to friends DBDC to save your pixels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hime Themis Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Hime you're sound so stupid every time you bring up promises. Cuba doesn't believe in promises! You're being used and you'll soon be r@$%# so hard that you'll regret believing in his "word" I really do hope you come to your sense and see what everyone is WARNING you about. Don't blind yourself or try to friends DBDC to save your pixels. H2BK You sound stupid every time you say promises do not matter. It is not material if CUBA, CT, Tywin or the whole of CN believes in promises. WE DO.Yes indeed the best way to save pixels is to go to war and expose my nation to a round of nuke attacks. Do you have to work at sounding stupid or does it come naturally? Dame HIme Themis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2BKs Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 H2BK You sound stupid every time you say promises do not matter. It is not material if CUBA, CT, Tywin or the whole of CN believes in promises. WE DO.Yes indeed the best way to save pixels is to go to war and expose my nation to a round of nuke attacks. Do you have to work at sounding stupid or does it come naturally? Dame HIme Themis You're indeed saving pixels. You have decide to go to war with a nation who only has 20k tech instead of risking going to war with Cuba who was knocked to 74k tech. I'm not really sure out of you or Cuba who is the biggest p$@#% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hime Themis Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) You're indeed saving pixels. You have decide to go to war with a nation who only has 20k tech instead of risking going to war with Cuba who was knocked to 74k tech. I'm not really sure out of you or Cuba who is the biggest p$@#% H2BK Ah you are raising the stupid ante good for you. How exactly is Cuba going to go to war with me in the midst of a war and in anarchy?? I was at war with no one I am now at war with a nation that can nuke me and any friend he brings in. You might wish to learn about the way one loses pixels. You are working on compound stupid now.By the way when I declined to hit Cuba a week ago, before RP was even in the picture it was your god CT who told me if I did not attack Cuba he and his friends would stop attacking cuba and attack me and nuke me. You may want to revisit who you make as your idols. His diplomacy skills are just a wee bit rusty.Was that an act of war by WTF, I think not as CT represents no one but himself. Dame Hime Themis Edited February 8, 2015 by Hime Themis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox101 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 All I'm wondering from this is, why did RonPaul need an agreement to even join OBR in the first place? Did RonPaul attack DBDC? If so, he did exactly what they do...yet, they are hailed by half of CN and RonPaul needs a backroom deal simply to be accepted to an AA? Regardless of any "agreement", there's nothing more than brown-nosing going on here. You are attacking a legitmate AA without any permission from their government (as far as I've seen?) simply because it is opportunistic, and benefits yourself in the long run. Hime, thought you were better than that, but I guess you need to preserve those donations as well. The day I hit a friend of mine over violating a deal with anyone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2BKs Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 H2BK Ah you are raising the stupid ante good for you. How exactly is Cuba going to go to war with me in the midst of a war and in anarchy?? I was at war with no one I am now at war with a nation that can nuke me and any friend he brings in. You might wish to learn about the way one loses pixels. You are working on compound stupid now.By the way when I declined to hit Cuba a week ago, before RP was even in the picture it was your god CT who told me if I did not attack Cuba he and his friends would stop attacking cuba and attack me and nuke me. You may want to revisit who you make as your idols. His diplomacy skills are just a wee bit rusty.Was that an act of war by WTF, I think not as CT represents no one but himself. Dame Hime Themis I'm not aware what CT says or doesn't say. The fact is that you twisted your arm to Cuba to be in good terms with him so he doesn't obliterate your nation with his DBDC friends. There is nothing more dishonorable than to attack a fellow friend and alliance member of yours with who you shared over a year. Just like you decided to attack your "good friend" RP, one day DBDC will decide to attack their good friend Hime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hime Themis Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 All I'm wondering from this is, why did RonPaul need an agreement to even join OBR in the first place? Did RonPaul attack DBDC? If so, he did exactly what they do...yet, they are hailed by half of CN and RonPaul needs a backroom deal simply to be accepted to an AA? Regardless of any "agreement", there's nothing more than brown-nosing going on here. You are attacking a legitmate AA without any permission from their government (as far as I've seen?) simply because it is opportunistic, and benefits yourself in the long run. Hime, thought you were better than that, but I guess you need to preserve those donations as well. The day I hit a friend of mine over violating a deal with anyone... Starfox101 Because he did and WTFs savior CT wanted him dead. Why not ask CT. Absolutely, I regularly suck up to DBDC, why not ask them how many times we have publicly disagreed, how loved I am in DBDC. Opportunist to get what nuked are you really trying to be blind? Preserve my pixels by going to war and exposing my nation to nukes now you are just being down right stupid. I am really sick of people who have bad mouthed me and our alliance in the past saying how they thought better of me. Yes you would believe your buds are more important than your word. Dame Hime Themis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hime Themis Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I'm not aware what CT says or doesn't say. The fact is that you twisted your arm to Cuba to be in good terms with him so he doesn't obliterate your nation with his DBDC friends. There is nothing more dishonorable than to attack a fellow friend and alliance member of yours with who you shared over a year. Just like you decided to attack your "good friend" RP, one day DBDC will decide to attack their good friend Hime. H2BK Let me dissuade you of your little illusions. At this stage I have had a very long term enjoyment of the game, built a larger nation that I deliberately did not use to abuse anyone. If tommorrow someone comes for me it will give me immense pleasure to not give a damn anymore and use the nation I have built to make sure they do not get to enjoy theirs anymore. Dame Hime Themis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Fire Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) All I'm wondering from this is, why did RonPaul need an agreement to even join OBR in the first place? Did RonPaul attack DBDC? If so, he did exactly what they do...yet, they are hailed by half of CN and RonPaul needs a backroom deal simply to be accepted to an AA? Regardless of any "agreement", there's nothing more than brown-nosing going on here. You are attacking a legitmate AA without any permission from their government (as far as I've seen?) simply because it is opportunistic, and benefits yourself in the long run. Hime, thought you were better than that, but I guess you need to preserve those donations as well. The day I hit a friend of mine over violating a deal with anyone... I don't know much of OBR, but based on what an RL friend has told me about his experience in trying to join, the process is rather.... Different.... Not sure how true that is and I was never given specifics, but to each their own. In other news, I don't even know what the whole deal with RP is and I sincerely don't give the slightest !@#$. What I do know is that the argument going on this thread is ridiculous. Where is WTF to defend their own ally? Everyone is calling on these "friends" of WTF.... Why would their "friends" even consider helping when WTF can't even defend their own members? Why don't the people !@#$%*ing in this pathetic thread go dog pile Hime if you're so offended? At least Pax Corvus went down with dignity. And as an ally of DBDC, I can say that move did not impress me, nor did it amuse me, as an ex-member of Pax. Regardless, DBDC plays their own way, as does WTF. I'm actually pretty neutral on the current Hime vs PR affair because both sides have made good points and I really don't care too much for OBR or WTF. Edited February 8, 2015 by Fox Fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaPirate Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) Hime Themis: I respect your conviction to stay true to your word. But I challenge you to consider whether your friendships are, even if tacitly, promises too. Edited February 8, 2015 by NinjaPirate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hime Themis Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Gentle Persons Let me make one thing clear. Much as I have enjoyed the pissing on us I am painfully aware that many of you, some people would be heard lambasting us when it was revealed that we had broken an agreement to stop a "rogue" who left us to fight another alliance. While DBDC is the current villain Dejour and not undeservedly, in past days it was Polar. Pacifica, MK etc. QWe can only try to staty true to our word to other regardless of who it is and if you are honst with yourslefs you know that if we broke that agrremnt ymost of you would be here crapping on us just the same. Respectfully Dame HIme Themis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 And with that, this deserves an award for most ironic thread ever. Where have a ever unnecessarily fought for someone who wanted me dead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hime Themis Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Hime Themis: I respect your conviction to stay true to your word. But I challenge you to consider whether your friendships are, even if tacitly, promises too. Good NinjaPirate An excellent point. They most certainly are. I will not go into specifics as it is not my place, but many discussions were had with Ron Paul before we came to this point. He was clear and honest and I was clear and honest, what is options were. He knew exactly what the results of joining WTF at war were going to be two weeks ago. Good on him for taking the route he took and taking the consequences with grace and honour. He doesn't whine about it. CT who wanted him dead has. Rather odd, don't you think. Respectfully Dame Hime Themsi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hime Themis Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Where have a ever unnecessarily fought for someone who wanted me dead? Tywin So you fought necessarily for someone who wanted you dead? How odd. Where exactly am I fighting for someone who wants me dead. I am fighting to honour a promise to another alliance , heck I would even honour one made to you. Dame HIme Themis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Fire Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Gentle Persons Let me make one thing clear. Much as I have enjoyed the pissing on us I am painfully aware that many of you, some people would be heard lambasting us when it was revealed that we had broken an agreement to stop a "rogue" who left us to fight another alliance. While DBDC is the current villain Dejour and not undeservedly, in past days it was Polar. Pacifica, MK etc. QWe can only try to staty true to our word to other regardless of who it is and if you are honst with yourslefs you know that if we broke that agrremnt ymost of you would be here crapping on us just the same. Respectfully Dame HIme Themis I respect your word. I cannot say with any certainty whether others will do the same, but the fact you do is highly respectable. *Waits for comments about how Fox Fire is inflating Himes ego* Where have I ever unnecessarily fought for someone who wanted me dead? I corrected your sentence to what I assume you meant.... And the answer is.... You are right now.... Now, I may be mistaken here. but it seems like some of your alliance mates aren't too fond of you! Because I am praying every night to AlmightyAdmin that you will..... failing that can you please stop with the psuedo intellectual thesis posts... pretty please. Someone just shoot me. Ugh, you're simply insufferable. Please shut up. When multiple members of your own alliance are publicly telling you to shut up, you should probably shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2BKs Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Gentle Persons Let me make one thing clear. Much as I have enjoyed the pissing on us I am painfully aware that many of you, some people would be heard lambasting us when it was revealed that we had broken an agreement to stop a "rogue" who left us to fight another alliance. While DBDC is the current villain Dejour and not undeservedly, in past days it was Polar. Pacifica, MK etc. QWe can only try to staty true to our word to other regardless of who it is and if you are honst with yourslefs you know that if we broke that agrremnt ymost of you would be here crapping on us just the same. Respectfully Dame HIme Themis The reason everyone is crapping on you is simple. You've attacked RP who left OBR on good terms and joined WTF on good terms. He is by no means a Rogue my friend. You've also shattered the reputation you used to have by giving in to DBDC demands. Is sad but true, you screwed up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox101 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) Starfox101 Because he did and WTFs savior CT wanted him dead. Why not ask CT. Absolutely, I regularly suck up to DBDC, why not ask them how many times we have publicly disagreed, how loved I am in DBDC. Opportunist to get what nuked are you really trying to be blind? Preserve my pixels by going to war and exposing my nation to nukes now you are just being down right stupid. I am really sick of people who have bad mouthed me and our alliance in the past saying how they thought better of me. Yes you would believe your buds are more important than your word. Dame Hime Themis Ah, so CT was behind it all? So, why then, would the agreement need to be honored? You seem to imply he was the only reason the agreement was made, and he is not there to enforce it. So why would you attack your friend over an outdated issue? And well, I would never make word to attack a friend of mine. You should honestly know by now that friends > infra is the prevailing idealogy of CN. I'm not sure why you attempted to use that as an insult against me. Also, you act as if you're going to take massive damage. RP was in way over his head before you declared. Won't even have enough nukes to launch at you everyday more than likely, and I'm willing to bet he only token targets you. Edited February 8, 2015 by Starfox101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hime Themis Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 H2BK Odd, I must have missed your declaration on DBDC. 18 days WTF has been at war and you have shot your mouth off like many others in this thread and nary a war declaration among you. Of course full credit to CT for pursuing his personal vendetta. Just so you are clear he left OBR without the normal waiting time of two weeks with the proviso that he would not go after DBDC and the consequences if he did. Now, since I am the one who authorized that departure and I do not remember any of you sitting with me in the room, I would say you are talking out of your butt as usual. WTF accepted him with his knowledge of the consequences of a war with DBDC. I am pleased you know so much about two alliance you are not part of. Dame Hime Themis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hime Themis Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Ah, so CT was behind it all? So, why then, would the agreement need to be honored? You seem to imply he was the only reason the agreement was made, and he is not there to enforce it. So why would you attack your friend over an outdated issue? And well, I would never make word to attack a friend of mine. You should honestly know by now that friends > infra is the prevailing idealogy of CN. I'm not sure why you attempted to use that as an insult against me. Also, you act as if you're going to take massive damage. RP was in way over his head before you declared. Won't even have enough nukes to launch at you everyday more than likely, and I'm willing to bet he only token targets you. Starfox101 Lets try this one more time.The agreement was made with DBDC not CT not Cuba as far as I am aware DBDC still exists so there is no CT clause in it. So good for you, but if a friend of mine goes rogue they will be attacked, you let them do their thing we do not. As to damage what is so difficult to understand here. I do not go to war NO damage. I go to war potential damage. I could care less if its a finger nail, doing nothing was zero risk of damage, honour our word potential damage pretty stupid for a pixel hugger. Dame HIme Themis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hime Themis Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Gentle Persons I appreciate all the input. A very wise man has suggested I just step away from the topic. I think I shall accept RPs advice. Good evening Respectfully Dame Hime Themis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox101 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Look, I'm not dense. You have more to gain by hitting a target hitting DBDC than you stand to lose in this war. Don't insult our intelligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Fire Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Gentle Persons I appreciate all the input. A very wise man has suggested I just step away from the topic. I think I shall accept RPs advice. Good evening Respectfully Dame Hime Themis Good idea. From what I understand, both sides have good points, and this will inevitably become a matter of opinion. I can see the black and white fade to gray on both sides, but not everyone else will allow themselves to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Chocolate Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) Sovereignty is a fundamental characteristic, you either exercise and defend it in every case where it is is questioned or you do not have it. It appears to me that you surrendered your sovereignty without a shot, at the previous time when you made this agreement, though we are only finding out about it now. Sovereignity is the authority of a state to govern itself. This includes the soverign right to make treaties, published or "secret." In this particular case, all the states involved 1) OBR 2) DBDC 3) RP (who was not attached to any alliance at the time so represented his own sovereign nation.) agreed. There was no surrender of sovereignty by anyone. Regarding the concept of "honor" - there is none loss by any of the parties in this case. A treaty was made, all parties agreed and the treaty is being followed. In terms of what was agreed to, it isn't unusual for peace agreements to include some rather unique clauses. The one that ended this last world war includes TOP remaining at war for a specific period of time. Is that dishonorable? No, it is not. The agreement here is not either. What would be dishonorable if any of the parties who agreed did not keep their word. Edited February 8, 2015 by White Chocolate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerdge Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) [...] When I I join an alliance at war is that an act of war on the other alliance? Why yes it is [...]Unlike basically everyone else in this thread I will continue to consider it OOC. Which allows me to say that this is (I believe) quite a new idea for CN. While joining an alliance at war surely and naturally means that one becomes a fully legitimate target for the other alliance, calling it "an act of war" by itself and even calling that one a "rogue" is rather a new concept. I am all for new ideas in the political game and this has the potential to cause a lot of drama: good for whoever thought of it first. Hopefully it won't be just another "we decide it's that because we have the power to make it so" thing that is used just once when convenient, and then gets discarded in the room of the lost and forgotten tools. Gaming patterns need to be at least somewhat consistent for the game to continue to have any meaning. Edited February 8, 2015 by jerdge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 The usual issue is people posting OOC in IC, but in this thread Hime cant seem to get out of character. Anyhow. In terms of what was agreed to, it isn't unusual for peace agreements to include some rather unique clauses. What peace treaty? When was OBR at war with DBDC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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