Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[kingzog]

Dear Dajobo,

 

Hello, I'm kingzog. I don't believe we've met.

 

You may or may not know that, historically, there is no love between myself and the New Pacific Order. Even when we've tried to play nice, we've ended up being rather bitchy toward one another. Sometimes it's just too hard to rise above one's previous squabbles.

 

Since the events that caused us (NPO and myself) to become estranged (their betrayal of the NpO, oddly enough) much has happened. Nordreich was re-formed, I served as its first Kaiser, and so on. It's been a fun-filled, six-year-long journey.

 

Today I'm in a wonderful position, namely, that of being someone people talk to because they know I won't blab while at the same time having precisely zero responsibility with respect to my own alliance's governance. It's actually a very nice place to be, and I know there are a few former alliance leaders who enjoy this same kind of status.

 

And so it is with some measure of authority that I tell you that you are wrong with respect to your 'puppet' thesis. Perhaps when this mess has finished you and I can have an off-the-record chat about this, but right now the atmosphere is clearly far too 'charged' for such an exchange.

 

All the best,

 

- kz

[John Purdue]

Pacifica, you are acting very unlike I remember how NPO 06-08 would act. It's a real shame. I just wish you were NPO 06'. It's amazing you guys lose respect so blindly.

 

- An old ball revisiting nostalgia

Edited November 15, 2014 by John Purdue

[saxasm]

Dear Dajobo,

 

Hello, I'm kingzog. I don't believe we've met.

 

You may or may not know that, historically, there is no love between myself and the New Pacific Order. Even when we've tried to play nice, we've ended up being rather !@#$%*y toward one another. Sometimes it's just too hard to rise above one's previous squabbles.

 

Since the events that caused us (NPO and myself) to become estranged (their betrayal of the NpO, oddly enough) much has happened. Nordreich was re-formed, I served as its first Kaiser, and so on. It's been a fun-filled, six-year-long journey.

 

Today I'm in a wonderful position, namely, that of being someone people talk to because they know I won't blab while at the same time having precisely zero responsibility with respect to my own alliance's governance. It's actually a very nice place to be, and I know there are a few former alliance leaders who enjoy this same kind of status.

 

And so it is with some measure of authority that I tell you that you are wrong with respect to your 'puppet' thesis. Perhaps when this mess has finished you and I can have an off-the-record chat about this, but right now the atmosphere is clearly far too 'charged' for such an exchange.

 

All the best,

 

- kz

This assumes that NpO actually believe their own rhetoric, and aren't just using whatever line they thinks will benefit their cause the most. I am not entirely sure whether that assumption is correct.

[OsRavan]

Emperor Letum, can you identify/explain the choices we/NpO made that caused alot of people to feel maligned last war being pushed into doomsphere's embrace? Can you also identify/explain the choices of NpO allies made that resulted in similar consequences for other major groups in this world?

 

Heh I could point out a few tbh.   I think its fair to say that the actions of several alliances in XX sphere last war had an impact on alignments.  Whether you think the anger at those actions were right or not i'm sure we could debate.  But there is no denying there was definitely a negative IMPACT from them. And you would have had to be an idiot to not see said negative impact as you were doing it.

 

In fact (further irony from this 'who is leading the coalition bs in this thread) I recall a whole lot of "We arent making the decisions, a mystery alliance we can't disclose is" claims coming from the xx area last war.  Just saying.  That wasnt exactly owning up to actions either.

 

 

I'll try to help...
 
*Dajobo opens Geppetto's school for class

The Grudge War formerly known as the TOP\IRON-NpO War was a conflict that initially started when TOP and IRON declared war on New Polar Order.
Note: The coalition leaders were first in and public about their position in the matter.

Bipolar War began on January 20, 2010 when the New Polar Order declared war on \m/
Note: The coalition leaders were first in and public about their position in the matter.

The Disorder War, was a global war that started on Halloween 2013 when New Polar Order, The Order of the Paradox and Farkistan declared war on New Sith Order.
Note: The coalition leaders were first in and public about their position in the matter.

The Equilibrium War, was a war that started when Anarchy Inc and their allies; IRON, NPO, TIO, NATO declared war on Umbrella.
Note: The coalition leaders were first in and public about their position in the matter.

This time around while funny to use it as propaganda we all know DS are not the coalition founders or leaders. This time we have a ghost declaration and then the puppet show to start things.

I hope this helps you understand.

 

 

Ummm.... the only problem with the disorder war being that all your actions showed that NSO wasn't actually the target of that war.  In other words, you hit a random victim (NSO) who didn't actually have anything to do with the person you wanted to fight.  Doesn't that go against what you are claiming you stand for?    Rush handled bi-polar for me or i would comment there (I would also question that the grudge war was directed/motivated by top/iron, but only so much time for ancient history)

 

Not to mention, you seem to have all of these issues with NPO and are demanding they fight you one-on-one in this thread.  But near as i can see, for strategic reasons you seem like you are avoiding actually hitting NPO yourselves.   Even though they attacked your ally.  Which is fine.   I've zero issue with people making strategic choices.  But again, it is very odd to hear you going on about why won't NPO fight you.. when you refuse to hit them despite having a perfectly legitimate reason to (and a lot of anger clearly).  If you are going to cite strategic reasons to not honor your tie to SNX, than stop demanding NPO hit you.  Move on.  Accept everyone is being strategic.

 

 

Finally.  This isn't for Daj, but just in general for this thread.  While we are on the topic of oAing and chaining in.  I seem to recall in equilibrium just about everyone and their uncle in aftermath/xx hitting into ODN on oAs of oAs and all sorta convoluted reasons (or no reason at all in some cases).  I think we got 25 hits?   Which, hey.   We didnt have an issue with it at the time and still don't.  Actually, we ended up having a lot of fun (heh great bragging rights after the fact).  But it seems weird for me to see those who did it then freaking out over a chained war *NOW*.  The hypocrisy is blinding.  Half the people complaining are in alliances who LITERALLY did the same thing a year ago.   It is almost hilarious the selective memory some have.

Edited November 15, 2014 by OsRavan

[Jindo Dog]

This battle is between good and evil, and for NPO to take sides with DS, I think that's just evil.

I've read the New Pacific Order's history, and it's full of wonders.....But why are you guys DEGRADING and PROSTITUTING yourselves to DS. That's just disgusting....

[saxasm]

This battle is between good and evil, and for NPO to take sides with DS, I think that's just evil.

I've read the New Pacific Order's history, and it's full of wonders.....But why are you guys DEGRADING and PROSTITUTING yourselves to DS. That's just disgusting....

I literally can't tell if you are being serious, or are just mocking the NpO rhetoric. This thread has gone on too far.

[ADude]

This battle is between good and evil, and for NPO to take sides with DS, I think that's just evil.

I've read the New Pacific Order's history, and it's full of wonders.....But why are you guys DEGRADING and PROSTITUTING yourselves to DS. That's just disgusting....

 

This is like, page 73 quality of posting. Come back later.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Highroad

[OsRavan]

This battle is between good and evil, and for NPO to take sides with DS, I think that's just evil.

I've read the New Pacific Order's history, and it's full of wonders.....But why are you guys DEGRADING and PROSTITUTING yourselves to DS. That's just disgusting....

 

Yeah that btw represents one of the more annoying habits people have on Bob. And sadly, while you are being open about it, its a mentality implied by many others in this thread.  Everything has to be good and evil.  Master and slave.  Seriously.   I wonder what sort of relationship you have with YOUR allies, that apparently the only relationship you can describe is one alliance degrading and prostituting themselves to another.  Heaven forbid someone who isn't on your own side could possibly actually have free will.  Or actually have a reason for not wanting to fight with you.  No.  They must be evil.  Yeah, that's it.

 

I mean, isn't it fascinating how in EVERY war all of the 'good' alliances happen to side with you and the 'evil' ones with your enemies?   Even though half the evil ones were good last war (and half the good ones evil).

 

 

Why we can't ever have an actual conversation about motives without trying to lump everyone into silly simplistic categories 'good' 'evil' 'lulz'.  Come on.  Do you really think the world is that lacking in gray?  If so, you have my pity.

Edited November 15, 2014 by OsRavan

[John Purdue]

Well played Umb/AZTEC, well played.

They break all the rules!

[Canik]

 

This is like, page 73 quality of posting. Come back later.

Page 22 is the new page 73

Get with the times people!

[Monty of the Herm]

Pacifica, you are acting very unlike I remember how NPO 06-08 would act. It's a real shame. I just wish you were NPO 06'. It's amazing you guys lose respect so blindly.

 

- An old ball revisiting nostalgia

Wasn't the point of Karma to make us change our ways? If you haven't noticed the times we're in now are FAR different from what they were before Karma, and the convoluted, stagnated treaty web is a result of Karma's actions back then. So clearly we would change to best adapt and progress forward in the reality we're in now, I wonder where that idea came from... OH YEAH Francoism!

Edited November 15, 2014 by Monty of the Herm

[Monty of the Herm]

This battle is between good and evil, and for NPO to take sides with DS, I think that's just evil.

I've read the New Pacific Order's history, and it's full of wonders.....But why are you guys DEGRADING and PROSTITUTING yourselves to DS. That's just disgusting....

When were we ever not ebil? Oh well I guess I'll go back to eating fresh, tender babies off the piers burning in SNX's backyard! YUM!!!

[The Zigur]

Wasn't the point of Karma to make us change our ways? If you haven't noticed the times we're in now are FAR different from what they were before Karma, and the convoluted, stagnated treaty web is a result of Karma's actions back then. So clearly we would change to best adapt and progress forward in the reality we're in now, I wonder where that idea came from... OH YEAH Francoism!

 

I find it laughable Francoism is used to justify literally any Pacifican action, regardless of long term consequences. Support the illegal overthrow of Ivan Moldavi? Francoism. IO's run rampant while Moo goes insane? Francoism. Forcibly disband alliances that later form Vox Populi? Francoism. Piss off all their allies who go on to oppose them in Karma/Armageddon War? Francoism.

 

It's repugnant to use Francoism as an explanation for every horrible leadership decision on the basis of material analysis. Yes, you can go on about how you use material analysis, that does not mean you have much of a track record of using it well.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Tywin Lannister

[Maelstrom Vortex]

*Begins smouldering from his nostrils.*.. I have a target... finally... I am going to knock the CRAP out of them.. *toothy grin.* Assuming they don't get bludgeoned out of range before I can descend upon them.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex

[The Pansy]

Is it any wonder people have lost all respect for Pacifica? Why not retire now and go join Reavers. Pacifica deserves better.

Sorry, our former NPO Emperor quota is currently filled, we do have space for a Polar Emperor though.... when you are ready.

[Monty of the Herm]

 

I find it laughable Francoism is used to justify literally any Pacifican action, regardless of long term consequences. Support the illegal overthrow of Ivan Moldavi? Francoism. IO's run rampant while Moo goes insane? Francoism. Forcibly disband alliances that later form Vox Populi? Francoism. Piss off all their allies who go on to oppose them in Karma/Armageddon War? Francoism.

 

It's repugnant to use Francoism as an explanation for every horrible leadership decision on the basis of material analysis. Yes, you can go on about how you use material analysis, that does not mean you have much of a track record of using it well.

To be clear I was responding to a statement about a general era in our history from which we've all moved very far past and now are in a very different reality from what that was back then. It has nothing to do with specifically what you're trying to lambast us for in this thread.

[The Zigur]

To be clear I was responding to a statement about a general era in our history from which we've all moved very far past and now are in a very different reality from what that was back then. It has nothing to do with specifically what you're trying to lambast us for in this thread.

I saw you blame Karma for the convoluted treaty web. How does that work?

[The Zigur]

I wonder which Order represents Ivan Moldavi's leadership today.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

*Begins to season and salt Tywin...*

[Monty of the Herm]

I saw you blame Karma for the convoluted treaty web. How does that work?

Karma ushered us into this reality on Planet Bob where no one hegemony could hold ultimate sway, as we did before Karma, for very long. What resulted was a multi-sphere convoluted mess of a treaty web where vying blocs of alliances scrambled for power and it has just stagnated even further to this day. Where now we have pretty much a rehashing of the previous war with changing sides, hence Letum's statement about us all mucking about in the same mud.

[The Zigur]

Karma ushered us into this reality on Planet Bob where no one hegemony could hold ultimate sway, as we did before Karma, for very long. What resulted was a multi-sphere convoluted mess of a treaty web where vying blocs of alliances scrambled for power and it has just stagnated even further to this day. Where now we have pretty much a rehashing of the previous war with changing sides, hence Letum's statement about us all mucking about in the same mud.

The mucking in the same mud comment is unfortunate because it reveals a kind of reactionary thinking, relying on a perceived past wrong to justify action rather than an analysis of the future. In fact no actual forward-thinking analysis was provide other than "burning down the world to build new order" etc etc. Yet that thinking ignores a material analysis of the nature of their relationship with their allies.

Much like Kaskus was instigated into being cannon fodder against MI6, Pacifica was influenced to provide the muscle of operations against SNX (with the only capital put up being doom squad for fucks sake).

So NPO was pressured into the Umbrella treaty to be leveraged against SNX. We got it, but dont pretend to be anything other than cannon fodder with inadequate leadership actually using Francoism to justify bad decisions yet again.

[The Zigur]

I have to admit I was wrong, after NPOs stubborn leadership in Disorder, I had expected an equal stubborness to doomsphere assimilation and being lead around by the tail. I guess I must eat my earlier words about Letum being a better leader than Farrin.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Tywin Lannister

[Monty of the Herm]

The mucking in the same mud comment is unfortunate because it reveals a kind of reactionary thinking, relying on a perceived past wrong to justify action rather than an analysis of the future. In fact no actual forward-thinking analysis was provide other than "burning down the world to build new order" etc etc. Yet that thinking ignores a material analysis of the nature of their relationship with their allies.

Much like Kaskus was instigated into being cannon fodder against MI6, Pacifica was influenced to provide the muscle of operations against SNX (with the only capital put up being doom squad for $%&@s sake).

So NPO was pressured into the Umbrella treaty to be leveraged against SNX. We got it, but dont pretend to be anything other than cannon fodder with inadequate leadership actually using Francoism to justify bad decisions yet again.

There's your problem Tywin I finally got you to ask a good simple question and you take one small phrase I used to complete my explanation to you and turn it into a whole different tangent which has nothing to do with what I was trying to explain to you just to get the last word in and bloat your ego even more... no wonder everyone gets such a headache when trying to get you to understand realities that are just plain common sense.

[Terekhov]

The mucking in the same mud comment is unfortunate because it reveals a kind of reactionary thinking, relying on a perceived past wrong to justify action rather than an analysis of the future. In fact no actual forward-thinking analysis was provide other than "burning down the world to build new order" etc etc. Yet that thinking ignores a material analysis of the nature of their relationship with their allies.

Your interpretation of his mud comment completely ignores the context (emphasis mine):
 

As to your comment about us conducting the very same political maneuver we criticise your side for...you are correct. That is exactly what we are doing. Not out of a petty attempt to implement a tooth for a tooth, but for the same reason you did it last year. Political gain.

We're all swimming in the same mud.

He isn't justifying Pacifica's decision based on what others have done; he's simply stating that it was done for political gain...like the majority of decisions made by most alliances. The references to the past aren't with a connotation of revenge: read the first line of that same post. Whether or not that plays well into your line of reasoning at this time doesn't change what Letum wrote.

You're correct, there was no play-by-play of what the future holds (where's that crystal ball when you need it?). However, if you take time to read back over the OP, specifically the part surrounding the 'burning to ashes' line, you might find there is more than first glance suggests. Then again, you might not want to, and that's your choice. Edited November 15, 2014 by Terekhov

[berbers]

and a treaty cancellation from NATO to enable it.  

Wes, I can personally guarantee we had no knowledge of this war when we cancelled.