Kashmir, Riot Society, and the Javahouse League hereby grant white peace to Kaskus and the Screaming Red Asses.

[suryanto tan]

Sir William,

 

I can understand why you need to save face, but what you do is simply not right. I cannot imagine how the following fact that I will reveal here now would undermine your credibility as a leader and the credibility of your alliance. 

 

 

[Dec 9, 2013]

 

When you first come to us, you message UnknownSmurf, asking if he still represents Kaskus. 

 

[spoiler]

 

 

[/spoiler]

 

[Dec 11, 2013]

 

And then, you start the conversation by citing our damage ratio, and warning us to not thinking about demanding your surrender in the soon-to-follow peace discussion. As soon as we see this, we understand that you want to save face from having to pull out from the war that you cannot afford fighting anymore. We decide that it is best to not giving you hard time, and to let you have the white peace you asked. Besides, as you told us, if you pull out, we can focus more on SL, RIA, and DL. 

 

[spoiler]

 

 

[/spoiler]

 

[Dec 13, 2013]

 

And then, before the announcement you send us a draft asking if we need to put a signature on it. The draft clearly states that we both agreed to white peace and NOT you granting us peace as you post it here. You have violate our trust by posting something then the agreed upon draft. 

[spoiler]

 

 

[/spoiler]

 

If I utterly humiliate you, I am sorry, but to be honest, you probably deserve it. I am not sure what kind of lie you will come up next to defend your position, but before you come up with any, please understand that a leader has to have dignity to earn respect from your followers. Minus that, you are just a garbage in the trash. 

 

We give you trust, and we shook hand on the ground of "Gentleman Agreement" as you put it, but you decide to go as low as you did. That is not a smart move, my friend. 

 

regards,

Tan

Edited December 15, 2013 by suryanto tan

[Xanth]

Good fight everyone. 

 

O/ SRA

O/ kaskus

O/ Kashmir

O/ Java

O/ BMTH

 

And a special shout out to 

O/ Letterkenny

 

Semantics  aside (granting true white peace as we have here is just a wording as all parties accept and deliver no surrender and agree to end hostilitites with eachother)  this is peace and it was well earned by all parties involved.

 

*edit* hakai you know I grew on you.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Xanth

[Grand Lord of Funk]

Peace of Ass tag never gets old.

 

Congrats to all.

 

nGLF

[USMC123]

"We grant you white peace."
"No we grant you white peace!"

Jesus Christ shut up.

[Master Hakai]

Good to see this, best of luck to the fine gentlemans of SRA who fought hard and were enjoyable to pal around with. I wish you all the best in rebuilding and look forward to our continued relations.

 

Good luck to kaskus too I guess. But suryanto, lmao. Stahp.

[KenoCore]

Good to see this, best of luck to the fine gentlemans of SRA who fought hard and were enjoyable to pal around with. I wish you all the best in rebuilding and look forward to our continued relations.
 
Good luck to kaskus too I guess. But suryanto, lmao. Stahp.

SRA is so very much loved <3

Tan can not be stopped.he is the Kaskus perpetual motion machine.

[Master Hakai]

SRA is so very much loved <3

Tan can not be stopped.he is the Kaskus perpetual motion machine.

I've always loved Walshington but Xanth not so much. This war took me from hating him to disliking him slightly, so mission accomplished heh!!

 

I saw tan get shot through the eye on TV the other day, so I'd have to disagree with you!

[KenoCore]

I've always loved Walshington but Xanth not so much. This war took me from hating him to disliking him slightly, so mission accomplished heh!!
 
I saw tan get shot through the eye on TV the other day, so I'd have to disagree with you!

That was his doppelgänger, tan is actually in Wisconsin on a farm in Adams County, enjoying the farm life.

[Dre4mwe4ver]

This is most certainly good to see.

o/ White Peace

And a special shout out to SRA, you crazy mofos.

[Bob Ilyani]

 

Sir William,

 

words words

 

If you really care this much about the wording of a peace post on the OWF, nut up and get back to war. Seriously, the whining puts a bitter taste on what is pretty universally recognized as having been a good, fair fight.

 

Congrats on peace everyone. Kashmir, ready to tangle some more?

[SirWilliam]

Sir William,
 
I can understand why you need to save face, but what you do is simply not right. I cannot imagine how the following fact that I will reveal here now would undermine your credibility as a leader and the credibility of your alliance. 
 
[Dec 11, 2013]
 
And then, you start the conversation by citing our damage ratio, and warning us to not thinking about demanding your surrender in the soon-to-follow peace discussion. As soon as we see this, we understand that you want to save face from having to pull out from the war that you cannot afford fighting anymore. We decide that it is best to not giving you hard time, and to let you have the white peace you asked. Besides, as you told us, if you pull out, we can focus more on SL, RIA, and DL. 
 
[Dec 13, 2013]
 
And then, before the announcement you send us a draft asking if we need to put a signature on it. The draft clearly states that we both agreed to white peace and NOT you granting us peace as you post it here. You have violate our trust by posting something then the agreed upon draft. 

If I utterly humiliate you, I am sorry, but to be honest, you probably deserve it. I am not sure what kind of lie you will come up next to defend your position, but before you come up with any, please understand that a leader has to have dignity to earn respect from your followers. Minus that, you are just a garbage in the trash. 
 
We give you trust, and we shook hand on the ground of "Gentleman Agreement" as you put it, but you decide to go as low as you did. That is not a smart move, my friend. 
 
regards,
Tan

[Extraneous portions of the above post have been removed. What remains is what I'll be addressing in my reply.]

 

You have not humiliated me in the least, Tan. You're free to find issue with this war and its resolution just as I'm free to provide context for how things went down from our point-of-view.

 

For starters, since you've latched on to the "You couldn't afford to keep fighting us, you had to bow out" talking point, I'll remind you that RPK (our squad of pre-war uppers) are just about all still sitting on billions. Clearly enough to fund their wars as well as those of our smaller nations. But really that's irrelevant, the conclusion we sought to this front was predicated on the fact that, bluster it may be, Polar has expressed a desire to keep the other one going through February. Simply put you guys had become a distraction and we had to prepare for the long haul with, no offense intended, the more important of the wars. We had little interest in pursuing Kaskus's surrender because precedent supports white peace and because our involvement was never about "winning" (it was about doing what we felt was in our as well as KCP's best interests).

 

Now wording. Kashmir, as you may be aware, abhors paper (a factor we may have no control of in the greater of the wars, but one we very much did here). We don't sign formal treaties with terms, during peacetime, and as much as possible won't as part of peace agreements. We prefer gentlemen's agreements, brokered in private, and will generally simply acknowledge their existence publicly. For better or for worse that is precisely what was done here.

 

In any event, even if we've made some friendships with those still engaged with Kaskus, Kashmir intends on upholding our end of the secondary agreement we made. I'm sure Kaskus will do the same.

[KenoCore]

On a more personal level William why did you not just stick with the original wording :p? It seems more of a political move such as having the dominate hand in a handshake.

All in all your rewording just seems to be an indirect way to cause more trouble than good. If you so drastically hate formal agreements I'm sure:

"Kaskus,Kashmir,java,SRA,riot agree to white peace" not 'hey we are giving these guys peace'
Would have been far more direct and less formal.

Yes, you entered this war for NSO ( and on a lesser note because you wanted to just war Kaskus) but, that's irrelevant.

[Rayvon]

On a more personal level William why did you not just stick with the original wording :P? It seems more of a political move such as having the dominate hand in a handshake.

All in all your rewording just seems to be an indirect way to cause more trouble than good. If you so drastically hate formal agreements I'm sure:

"Kaskus,Kashmir,java,SRA,riot agree to white peace" not 'hey we are giving these guys peace'
Would have been far more direct and less formal.

Yes, you entered this war for NSO ( and on a lesser note because you wanted to just war Kaskus) but, that's irrelevant.

On a more personal note, why the fuck do you have to bitch like a little baby over a few fucking words?

Either hit them for their "poor and offensive wording of the peace terms" or shut the fuck and go back to your other wars.

[White Chocolate]

Thanks to everyone for what our membership describe as a good war with lots of active fighting. Also - Hail peace!

[Beauty]

Can someone in Kaskus or something help me figure out what to do about these Kashmir nations wanting to surrender to me?

 

I mean I've been giving them peace and all, but I feel bad for them. What do I do with them? One guy had a $6 warchest. :(

[KenoCore]

Rayvon the language was unessecary, I simply am curious is all. Like Kashmir I am not one for fancy words and formal BS. I would just like a " we changed the wording because (insert reason" I'm not whining at all, simply curious.

[Rayvon]

There's a lot more than curiosity back there among those tears of "whyyyyyyyyyyy Williams Man did thou changest the wording and smite us doth duely" ......

I don't bitch about your English, you don't bitch about mine.

[Unknown Smurf]

On a more personal note, why the $%&@ do you have to !@#$%* like a little baby over a few !@#$@#$ words?Either hit them for their "poor and offensive wording of the peace terms" or shut the $%&@ and go back to your other wars.

Ironic considering the unprecedented amount of bitching you did over 1 word in the legion-Tetris war. If the legion just told you the the would announce white peace in that war then announced that you surrendered/implied that you did we would probably never hear the end of it.

@SirWilliam - you say " Kashmir intends on upholding our end of the secondary agreement we made. I'm sure Kaskus will do the same" yet less than a day ago you've shown that you do not honor your word. How can we expect you to honor this "gentlemans" agreement now?

Consistently you lie and try to cover up your lies with more lies and half truths; if you don't care for paperwork why did you go out of your way to change the wording we agreed upon even when we specified we only agree if that is posted verbatim. If you wish to discuss this further you know where to find me.

That said, I do believe we were wronged here but this is probably not the best venue to discuss it.

Edit: out of order paragraph.

tJL it was a pleasure fighting you guys and SRA a pleasure fighting alongside you.

o/ Javahouse League
o/ SRA
o/ Kaskus Edited December 15, 2013 by Unknown Smurf

[Rayvon]

Ironic considering the unprecedented amount of !@#$%*ing you did over 1 word in the legion-Tetris war. If the legion just told you the the would announce white peace in that war then announced that you surrendered/implied that you did we would probably never hear the end of it.

That said, I do believe we were wronged here but this is probably not the best venue to discuss it.

@SirWilliam - you say " Kashmir intends on upholding our end of the secondary agreement we made. I'm sure Kaskus will do the same" yet less than a day ago you've shown that you do not honor your word. How can we expect you to honor this "gentlemans" agreement now?

Consistently you lie and try to cover up your lies with more lies and half truths; if you don't care for paperwork why did you go out of your way to change the wording we agreed upon even when we specified we only agree if that is posted verbatim. If you wish to discuss this further you know where to find me.

o/ Javahouse League
o/ SRA
o/ Kaskus

Comparing apples and carrots is quite useful. The Legion-Tetris war situation was nothing like this one in any way, nor do you have a fucking clue what went on in them or why. From inception to discussions to ending. Hell - I even still have respect for Alexander, and haven't forgotten, his dealings with me in those discussions.

As I said before, if you feel so wronged that you have to come into this peace thread with Kashmir and !@#$%* at Kashmir about the wording - then either declare on them or shut the $%&@ up. You continue on to insult the man, and degrade him -- why did you make a "gentlemans agreement" with him if he's such a filthy liar? What were you hoping to accomplish? Edited December 15, 2013 by Rayvon

[Unknown Smurf]

Comparing apples and carrots is quite useful. The Legion-Tetris war situation was nothing like this one in any way, nor do you have a !@#$@#$ clue what went on in them or why. From inception to discussions to ending. Hell - I even still have respect for Alexander, and haven't forgotten, his dealings with me in those discussions.

How quickly you forget how we met. I've read all of those discussions and his commentary on them. I can assure you that he thought no more of you than a stubborn fool in the aftermath of that war, though I'm unsure if that has changed.

As I said before, if you feel so wronged that you have to come into this peace thread with Kashmir and !@#$%* at Kashmir about the wording - then either declare on them or shut the $%&@ up. You continue on to insult the man, and degrade him -- why did you make a "gentlemans agreement" with him if he's such a filthy liar? What were you hoping to accomplish?

Obviously this thread is the proof that he is a liar. Unfortunately we cannot go back in time and change the agreement due to something that happened in the aftermath of it. Surely even you can understand that.

P.S. OOC I'm in my phone and I accidentally put that first line at the front of the paragraphs instead of the end. I've edited my last post.

[KenoCore]

That he wouldn't be an immature jerk like you ^_^?

Whining is whining, you sure seem to be doing a lot of it.

[SirWilliam]

@ US:

 

I thought it was clear, when I shelved no reentry clauses and we forewent signatures, that we weren't going to bother with formalization but were instead making a more spirited, private agreement. I don't recall there being the explicit request or guarantee that the agreement that was reached would be the verbatim wording of the acknowledgment.

 

Why did I acknowledge the agreement in the manner I did, with the wording I did? Because it was how I viewed the situation, simple as that. No harm was meant and certainly no harm was inflicted. We all had a good time and desired peace, and peace is exactly what we all got. The end result of any type of public wording is ultimately the same, so why bother making mountains out of molehills.

 

As for lacking trust in my word, that is your prerogative. I intend, however, on proving the veracity of our plans to uphold our end of the agreements through our actions. Actions mean more than words after all, do they not.

 

edit: Firefox doesn't spell-check.  :(

Edited December 15, 2013 by SirWilliam

[Xanth]

And this board hates mobile unless you want to shell out cash for the app.

 

I can understand some peoples issue with the wording but I also agree it is splitting hairs.

 

I see here that no one surrendered, there were no terms and all parties involved mutually agreed to cease hostilities with each other. Any wording is just semantics in my book as no wiki anywhere will be marking this as anything but the truest of white peace for the record books.

 

Dont let Rayvon stir the pot and dont let pride overcome the fact we all had fun and we all choose to move on to other things.

[Walshington]

 No harm was meant and certainly no harm was inflicted. We all had a good time and desired peace, and peace is exactly what we all got. The end result of any type of public wording is ultimately the same, so why bother making mountains out of molehills.

 

 Actions mean more than words after all, do they not.

 

 

 

Well, the answer here is staring us in the face.  If the public words don't really matter so long as the end result is the same, change the public words: I posted shortly after you did, and my edit button is still active -- I assume yours works as well. All you need to do is edit the post where the words don't really matter anyway. Kaskus will stop whining, your motives will be proven, the words will reflect the discussion that happened before the post and the molehills will be tamped down.  

 

Then this thread can convert back to the  "good-game-coupled with-a-pat-on-the-ass" thread it is supposed to be, which aligns more with how the war was fought.

 

You're all welcome in advance.

 

This situation very much reminds me of the Adam Carolla riff on speaking Hungarian.

[Rayvon]

Dont let Rayvon stir the pot and dont let pride overcome the fact we all had fun and we all choose to move on to other things.

I didn't say a word till late on the second page AFTER Kaskus was already bitching about the wording and in response to their bitching. I'm not stirring anything. You can find some where else to stick that finger instead of pointing it at me.