TIO Announcement

[IYIyTh]

So salsabeast1, can we expect you to lay down your hypocorisms for the rest of the world while you get your house in order?

 

 

I hate to hold this tone as if fermata but perhaps moving forward it might be best to cease. One would think you'd be amiable to deartuate the menial diatribe towards others while so much seems awry much closer to home... perhaps before aspiring to drown us all in your droll banter.

Edited September 26, 2013 by IYIyTh

[Fox Fire]

Chaunce, you dont understand. We got screwed over. 

PNU is my family. I have a connection to it you simply dont understand. If TIO wont defend our rights, I will. 

I wont sit and see my Union be demonized and attacked for defending itself. We attacked nobody. 

We are a sovereign AA and have a right to just that. 

 

I mean for god sake, people... HONESTLY! WTF would you have done? 

Same damn thing... Especially TIO.

[salsabeast1]

So salsabeast1, can we expect you to lay down your hypocorisms for the rest of the world while you get your house in order?

What is hypocritical here in this thread? The fact we canceled over a mistake made, even though TIO/myself make plenty? 

[Fox Fire]

"friend."I could be wrong, but I think the DS guys who attacked at 7:30 were simply attacking in retaliation for the PNU guy who attacked at 2 am... thus violating the peace agreement.  So PNU struck first.  At least according to the war screens."

 

I keep hearing this and specifically confronted DS about a potential misunderstanding like this twice.... Guess how they responded?

Alot of accusations, lies, boasting and blatant insults towards us....

[Fox Fire]

Know how they requestd peace? They came to our forums shouting "you have no life" and blatant insults.....

Yeah!!! THATS TOTALLY PEACE WORTHY!!!! 

 

DS is lucky it still exists.

[Rayan Thomas]

.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Rayan Thomas

[Schattenmann]

Given the "anti-TIO" sentiments before I left, this was bound to happen.

 

As much as I like PNU and it's government, chances are they will get themselves rolled. Somehow PNU managed to piss of the Monarch Order, and take quite a licking in the process.

Where do I line up for some licking? :ehm:

[WarriorSoul]

Played since 7 years ago. Dont need proof. My word is gold. Just ask Generalchow

 

Chow, eat shit

 

Makes me lol.

 

This is entertaining, at the very least. Good decision, TIO.

[IYIyTh]

What is hypocritical here in this thread? The fact we canceled over a mistake made, even though TIO/myself make plenty? 

 

Despite your spurious interpretation of my missive, I will exculpate thee if you can answer but one simple question.

 

Would you say that you are a man whom resembles a container with a lid, spout, and handle, in which tea is made and from which it is poured?

[Unknown Smurf]

Next time can you give the full AA in OP so its easier for raiders? kthxbai.

[WarriorSoul]

Despite your spurious interpretation of my missive, I will exculpate thee if you can answer but one simple question.

 

Would you say that you are a man whom resembles a container with a lid, spout, and handle, in which tea is made and from which it is poured?

 

Sometimes I want to punch you in the face Myth. :|

[Fox Fire]

"DS acknowledged that and so did I."

I support your decision, but I do not acknowledge that peace was achieved at original time agreed.

 

With that, we all have a better understanding. My personal opinion remains unchanged.

[Saniiro Matsudaira]

I don't even know what is happening anymore...

[Lurunin]

I would suggest fox fire take a step back before posting a bit just to calm down and take a deep breath lol

 

now are there any timelines we can look at this with? lol. it seems there are about 6 different sides?

[Gibsonator21]

Despite your spurious interpretation of my missive, I will exculpate thee if you can answer but one simple question.

 

Would you say that you are a man whom resembles a container with a lid, spout, and handle, in which tea is made and from which it is poured?

Ya know, now that ya mention it...

Edited September 26, 2013 by Gibsonator21

[Spaztik Muffin]

This thread pleases and confuses me.

i agree

[Beauty]

Shouldn't of declared on me birdman, nope.

[Vol Navy]

Once an AA DoW'd my protectorate with multiple nations with the war reason "roguery" then I'd probably have rolled them for a week at least before letting them off. Not sure why that approach wasn't taken by TIO instead of 12 million in reps, which is basically nothing these days.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Vol Navy

[andyt2k]

Can I clear up that this DS/PNU issue was the straw that broke the camels back, it wasn't the sole reason for the cancelation

 

It was (I think) the third time that we'd discussed dropping the treaty, their repeated tech raids of alligned nations being the main issues for the first few times we looked at dropping them,

 

Once you get used to seeing "PNU have screwed up again" threads in your gov forums, it can create some tensions.

 

This DS issue is just one of many problems we've had with PNU over the course of our protectorate, the decision also fell to a general government consensus of "Seriously, just freaking cancel it already"

 

As Foxfire has shown over and over in this thread, we've had more than one reason to cancel

[Partisan]

Hello cyberworld. Let's break it down a *little*

 

First of all, we'll establish that there is a history to the protectorate. This was not the first incident where PNU made mistakes and TIO felt wary. TIO's reactions to the current situation and the subsequent cancellation are the result of an accumulation of events over a larger time span. Now let's look into the situation:

Once an AA DoW'd my protectorate with multiple nations with the war reason "roguery" then I'd probably have rolled them for a week at least before letting them off. Not sure why that approach wasn't taken by TIO instead of 12 million in reps, which is basically nothing these days.

I will have to admit that I was not around for the first peace talks. However; I see various valid reasons why TIO may have reacted in the way they did. First of all; both DS and PNU consist of and are led by nation leaders who are relatively new to this world. both entities also show, despite their mistakes, great enthusiasm for the world. Given the dwindling population of this world, should we really destroy that enthusiasm? Should we roll a small grouping of new players who are enjoying this world and are learning by trial and error; just to make a point? And what point would we be making? Don't mess with us or our protectorate? Let's be honest here; rolling a 3-man alliance won't establish that.

 

Instead, it seems to me like our government opted to go for diplomacy, immediately introducing PNU to the concept, thus teaching them another facet of running an alliance. I see no wrong in that.

 

Lastly, you say that 12 mil is nothing right now. For small nations/alliances it may still be a significant amount. Let's keep in mind that the NS of nations initially affected laid around the 10k NS. Damages of one or a couple of days will not even reach 3 mil each. 12 mil was a fair amount. Again though; I was not there for that negotiation or decision. Though I think I see the reasoning behind the course of action taken, I can only speculate on this question.

 

I liked the part where PNU was recently attacked and kept at war for a few days and TIO responded by...canceling their protectorate.

That's classic, guys. (And yes, I know PNU is terrible, but still)

 

There's a bit more to it than that. PNU was raided by an alliance called Doom Squad, PNU counter attacked without telling TIO, and TIO got pissed.

 

I'm not trying to excuse TIO's actions, in my opinion their actions are rather "low". Slightly understandable, but nonetheless bad.

 

TIO got pissed because (from what I have gathered), incidents like this are not alien. They have happened before and concern has been raised before by TIO. Given that PNU responded militarily on its own, that took away options for courses of actions for TIO. Therefore, diplomacy was used to negotiate reps. The negotiations were a success and 12 mil was agreed upon. When PNU then re-declared on evidence that later proved to be false (I'll get to that in a second), again without consulting TIO, that was our government's final straw, I suppose. We again negotiated peace - white peace this time, and cancelled the protectorate.

 

May I ask what is "low" about this course of action? I'm curious.

 

 

 

This is curious to me. Was there an established protocol that PNU must approach TIO for help whenever raided? Did TIO sort out this incident first before canceling?

 

I was personally assigned to sort the incident when PNU resumed hostilities. While the protectorate ended up being cancelled; a statisfactory conclusion was brought to the war. Even when taking into account that DS was the initial aggressor, attacking for no reason whatsoever, we still could not overlook PNU's resumation of events based on miscalculated timelines. Therefore all parties agreed that the best way to end this was to simply call it even.

 

As for the established protocol; no, the treaty does not dictate that PNU must approach TIO for help. It is however an established percedent as well as a common courtesy to do so; especially if you are expected your protectors help should it escalate. As mentioned above; this was not the first time and therefore, our request regarding information streams had already been on the table.

 

 

Lastly, the timeline: PNU resumed hostilities because they believed attacks had been continued by DS after peace was agreed upon. Had this been correct, TIO, though still somewhat wary of the lack of communication, would have supported PNU in its re-declaration be it militarily, financially or diplomatically.

 

Before entering the latest round of peace negotiations, Ryan and I sat down and delved through timelines, screen shots, logs etc.

We quickly concluded that the initial peace talks were concluded at 8:20 pm (iirc). The attacks that led to escalation were carried out at 7:20 pm. One hour before. (Note: I might have my am and pm mixed up, I can look this up later if need be. In either case, there was a one hour timespan in between).

 

Given that the attacks were carried out before peace was agreed, PNU's resumation was based on a misconception. While there was no malice involved, and the situation got solved, it could have easily been avoided had PNU contacted TIO before engaging in hostilities. 

 

I hope this clarifies the situation a bit. I will be around to answer further questions here and on IRC.

[Dochartaigh]

What in the damn flying spaghetti fuck is so hard to understand about this:

Peace was agreed at 11:30pm

Some people arent up that late, believe it or not. (OZMG!!!)

7:30am, next morning, DS attacks PNU. 

 

We hit them back for breaking the agreement.....

How can I possibly explain that more clearly? Should I use smaller words? Maybe fetch you a dictionary? Perhaps I can get you a latte?....

 

 

"friend."I could be wrong, but I think the DS guys who attacked at 7:30 were simply attacking in retaliation for the PNU guy who attacked at 2 am... thus violating the peace agreement.  So PNU struck first.  At least according to the war screens."

 

I keep hearing this and specifically confronted DS about a potential misunderstanding like this twice.... Guess how they responded?

Alot of accusations, lies, boasting and blatant insults towards us....

 

 

"DS acknowledged that and so did I."

I support your decision, but I do not acknowledge that peace was achieved at original time agreed.

 

With that, we all have a better understanding. My personal opinion remains unchanged.

 

Hmm... You are aware you have repeatedly stated that peace was achieved at 11:30 pm and that DS hit first at 7:30 am the next morning correct? Then, when you finally acknowledge that PNU actually did hit first at 2 am, you state that you don't agree that peace was achieved at the original time despite probably a couple of dozen posts of your own stating otherwise... wow. You have absolutely no argument simply because you have started contradicting yourself, let alone cold, hard facts having done so already.

[Rocco]

Wow, this is like the Jerry Springer Show on the OWF. I am just waiting Fox Fire to throw a chair at someone.

[Dochartaigh]

Wow, this is like the Jerry Springer Show on the OWF. I am just waiting Fox Fire to throw a chair at someone.

 

You kidding me, by this point that is old news. He is flashing everyone and trying to beat up Jerry.

[Tiberius]

This is amazing. I appreciate the entertainment fox fire.

[Beauty]

 

As in following with our allies in TIO's cancellation,

 

The AA-TaGA-CFQ also wishes to alert the Pan National Union of the 48 hours cancellation clause of the Pan National Alabamian Pact.

 

Signed for AA-TaGA-CFQ,

 

Rotavele, President of Freedoms

Edited September 26, 2013 by Rotavele