The Zigur Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Years ago, as an enemy of the Orders I pondered to myself "why are they so successful?" After all, for years they enjoyed unrivaled power in every sense of the word... militarily they were one of the strongest alliances; diplomatically, the best connected; ideologically, completely unchallenged. Indeed, for my first three or four years of existence they were never defeated on the field of battle once. Vladimir once said that Pacifica enjoyed exceptionalism that was like steel forged from blood and iron, and while at first I dismissed this as propaganda, I was compelled to understand this dynamic even as I sought to undermine it. The original IAA was no friend to the NPO. I originally came to know them because Emperor Chimaera pledged a protectorate to my fledgling alliance, but I soon discovered that many in the alliance shared my anti-Order sentiments. So I joined and was soon involved in government affairs. The IAA was one of a few to publicly stand against the Order at the time, and I knew we had a target painted on our back. Within a few months I had gained a better understanding of NPO and the global situation, but I still felt I had an inadequate comprehension of what really drove the Order's success. I began to write Vladimir, and later, Cortath, to gain their perspective of what powered the Order, and I was introduced to Francoism. They recommended that I read the articles, and although ponderous and wordy, they were highly interesting to me. I refused to simply dismiss Francoism as meaningless drivel like most of my friends and allies and delved into the literature of the Body Republic. I began to understand that although the label Francoism was applied to give it a Pacifican twist, it was inspired by a combination of far older works that precede the existence of our world. It was an educational experience being introduced to the works of Hobbes, Marx, Plato, and many others, seeing that i came from a less educated background in terms of higher philosophy. Although I did not agree with some of these philosophers individually, the reinterpretation Vladimir provided and adapted to this world struck me as genius. When you boiled down the fancy words and abstract concepts, Francoism represented a code of conduct for the Order to follow, and more importantly, truly believe in. With this rudimentary understanding, I began to attempt to replicate it myself, and failed twice. In my government service to IAA, I began to implement a basic version of this ideology within our own alliance, producing videos and newsletters to promote Imperial Exceptionalism and shaping the internal structure of the alliance after the NPO herself. In Vox Populi, I attempted a counter-ideology that was meant to sweep the Francoist rug from under Vladimir's feet. For many reasons, the NPO prevailed both times, and in Vox I was pressured to leave because the label "Francoist" left me rather unpopular. The student could not defeat the sage. In the end, the NPO declined like all empires do, and a new order began to form that replaced them. Perhaps the most well known amongst this new order was the Mushroom Kingdom. Mushroom Kingdom was as competent as Pacifica militarily and diplomatically, and a struggle of wills ensued that ended in multiple Pacifican defeats. But MK and it's allies lacked one thing: a stability-encouraging higher ideology that could place collective principles above the individual, and pave the way to long term dominance. Instead, the Mushroom Kingdom's incomplete dominance came into fruition with the "friends before infra" philosophy of foreign affairs. It was superbly executed, and lead to many victories and strong alliances, but unlike the old NPO, Mushroom Kingdom would never be able to provide a new hegemony because of the internal contradictions inherent in this approach. This was the beginning of Global Feudalism. With no higher ideology or sense of purpose guiding the victors, they would soon decay into competing power spheres battling for petty influence on an almost month-to-month schedule -- only held together weakly, out of fear of the NPO. With this decay came population decline and further draining of talent. It reminds one of the fall of the Roman Empire or Soviet Union in other planes of existence. Newer, more amateur leadership styles encouraged more egotistical approaches, devolving politics into blood feuds, alliance-wide raids, and even the abandonment in many cases of traditional Casus Belli approaches to war. Stability will never exist again while these trends prevail. Pacifica was ruthless and perhaps power-mad in her latter days of dominance, but the stability that is central to Francoism continued to prevail as long as the old-school leaders of Pacifica ruled. This stability came from following and believing in policies that were in line with Francoism, and which encouraged stability: concepts like the Casus Belli, written treaties, and honoring agreements allows for a certain degree of trust between alliances that would otherwise have nothing in common. Opposite of this, policies such as mass tech raids, unprovoked and illegitimate wars, and undisciplined foreign policy encourages mistrust and disunity between all parties. The way Mushroom Kingdom disbanded, while quite humorous and entertaining to us observers, summed up the policies that would prevent MK and her adherents from ever achieving the success and empire that Pacifica once enjoyed. Perhaps that was the intention: many enjoyed the opportunity for war and plunder that a chaotic environment brings. Judging from the decline in population, however, I do not think that this was the case for most. A new class of exploiter arose that reflected the conflict between userites and feederites of classical Francoism; and a small group of nations exploited chaos at the expense of many others. Such a policy brings many short term benefits to capable alliances, but they will always suffer in the long term. Despite everything, NPO outlasted her greatest enemy despite having declined herself. Francoism may seems boring, abandoned and outdated, but there are still many lessons it can illuminate, and until leaders like those of old rise in the world again, Global Feudalism will remain the state of affairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascended Dio Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 this is pathetic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascended Dio Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 like did you really put in this much time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascended Dio Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 and thought, too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Virginia Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 and thought, too? Time, yes. Thought, that is arguable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted September 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 I look forward to educated replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascended Dio Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Time, yes. Thought, that is arguable. i'm inclined to agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Rebel Virginia Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 I look forward to educated replies. You'll be waiting for awhile then. Most people with even an ounce of intelligence aren't going to waste their time arguing over an imaginary philosophy. Hell, Francoism isn't even that. It has always simply been whatever Vladimir said it was at a particular to keep the troops in line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted September 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 You'll be waiting for awhile then. Most people with even an ounce of intelligence aren't going to waste their time arguing over an imaginary philosophy. Hell, Francoism isn't even that. It has always simply been whatever Vladimir said it was at a particular to keep the troops in line. That aspect to it was discussed in my OP, don't see where the counter-argument is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porksaber Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 all I know is that it does pay dividends... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stucifer Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) You're a great man Tywin, but I'd rather buy those dolphin tapes.Ideology is just a way to explain wars that otherwise would make no sense except as a naked power grab. They might keep the troops proud of what they're doing, sure. But it reeks of hypocrisy to outsiders, and the pride it engenders turns to arrogance and cruelty. This is as true in the real world as it is in Bob.We don't need another ideology on this here internet war game. Our alliance certainly doesn't need one, because I don't want to serve an alliance that ever forgets that this is just a game and we're all supposed to have fun. I don't want other people to look at the things I or my alliance does and think "Those douchebags." I want to be friends with everyone insofar as that's possible, both my allies and even the people I'm at war with. And it's not worth it to me to justify my actions ingame by sacrificing my character out of it.Sure, sometimes, naked power grabs are necessary in a game like this, if you want to win. But I think it'd serve everyone's interests better to just be honest about it instead of trying to cook up some self-justified nonsense and expecting your victims to swallow it. Edited September 17, 2013 by Stucifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renegade4box Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 The dolphin brigade does not cybernations to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stucifer Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 And you're doing a bang-up job of it, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerdge Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 But MK and it's allies lacked one thing: a stability-encouraging higher ideology that could place collective principles above the individual, and pave the way to long term dominance. The MK had unity, ideology and purpose. The MK was different from the NPO in many aspects but, much like the Pacificans, the shrooms were supremacists ("we're better than [almost all of] you" etc.) and their purpose was to have fun while doing as they pleased. The main political difference among the two was style, not "substance". If you're looking for alliances that were at the top but (politically) unlike the NPO, look at Polaris or at TOP. (I'm actually skeptical about everything you wrote, and about everything I just replied with too, for good measure.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis XVI Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 This is honestly one of the worst things I've ever had the displeasure of reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Hakai Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 I disagree with you, Tywin Lannister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letterkenny Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) aren't going to waste their time arguing over an imaginary philosophy. Hell, Francoism isn't even that.Correct and correct. But nice post Tywin Baratheon, you've clearly got a lot of free time. Edited September 17, 2013 by Letterkenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehmina Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Citing Ideology as a CB is much more sophisticated than 'hey, they attacked us two years back'. Look at the CBs now-a-days; they are pathetic. Athough NPO's 'ideology-driven CBs' were for the same purpose as [almost] all other CBs, they were quite an interesting read... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Holton Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 (edited) An interesting read. I always lean towards the ideology and role-playing aspect of CN as something that brings more population to the game, rather than the current state of (mostly) OOC dealings we see everywhere. The top alliances become top alliances through their ideology, not through their stats. The ones who do everything to win will win, simply because of the lack of ambition present in the current political landscape. MK said it in their disbandment notice "We don't have the drive to be the best anymore." Most alliances never had the drive in the first place and, like the other HB poster in this thread, "just want to be friends with everyone." Edited September 18, 2013 by Master Holton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamsmashius Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 Can you tell us what Francoism is? I don't understand what it is, and I'm not acquainted with philosophies of the people you talked about, Vladimir and Cortath especially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 I only skimmed the article, but the conclusion I took from it seems to be that MK lacked some kind of ideology to really create a hegemony. First, the "MK hegemony" lasted longer than NPO's. Granted, our hegemony was more collective than NPO's, we never quite had the in-game stats or treaty volume to match NPO's, and relied more on allies. But it was at least as enduring. Second, Francoism was a bunch of words that almost no one took seriously. It was nothing more than a veneer for NPO to role play with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 I only skimmed the article, but the conclusion I took from it seems to be that MK lacked some kind of ideology to really create a hegemony. First, the "MK hegemony" lasted longer than NPO's. Granted, our hegemony was more collective than NPO's, we never quite had the in-game stats or treaty volume to match NPO's, and relied more on allies. But it was at least as enduring. Second, Francoism was a bunch of words that almost no one took seriously. It was nothing more than a veneer for NPO to role play with. Mostly this. Of course that ignores that friends > infra was never really a "MK ideology". If MK had an ideology at all it was "Everything. Must. Die.". A kind of "I'll knock all the stars from the sky" type thing. I think you can kind of see the effects of this in the first few posts to your topic "lol did you really do this!!!". On friends > infra I believe it was Flak Attack who said something like "Friends > infra was a great tool to inspire us to fight NPO and a great tool to shame our enemies into beat downs". Elevating it into a guiding philosophy is like turning windmills into giants. It's just not there. RV says Francoism was the same thing. He certainly has the authority to say that, so maybe there never were giants here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cortath Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 Can you tell us what Francoism is? I don't understand what it is, and I'm not acquainted with philosophies of the people you talked about, Vladimir and Cortath especially. Francoism. Vladimir. Cortath. Some readings: Proper Francoist Thought. The Meaning of Freedom. An Introduction to Francoism. A Primer on Francoism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 The MK had unity, ideology and purpose. The MK was different from the NPO in many aspects but, much like the Pacificans, the shrooms were supremacists ("we're better than [almost all of] you" etc.) and their purpose was to have fun while doing as they pleased. The main political difference among the two was style, not "substance". If you're looking for alliances that were at the top but (politically) unlike the NPO, look at Polaris or at TOP. You are wrong about TOP. The only thing I like about them. Well written OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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