Declaration from Vox Populi

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Stonewall Jaxon' timestamp='1344991708' post='3022020']
Don't flatter yourselves. At best, you're the new GGA.
[/quote]

That means a lot coming from today's Methrage.

[Starfox101]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1344921871' post='3021798']
People tend to ignore the changes that did take place from Karma. EZI is no more. OWF censorship is no more, or at least to a much, much smaller degree (people won't get kicked and EZI'd for how they post, in other words). Reps have been much rarer, especially in the last few wars and completely in this last one. Alliances can go to war without the threat of permanent war looming over them if they do.
[/quote]
That is true, and those are positive changes for the longevity of the world. However, along with that we've seen as many negative changes brought about. There's absolutely no political discourse anymore, whenever anyone disagrees with MK and co., the troll squad comes out and harasses them, rather than argue with them. There is the threat of preemptive, no CB wars, that last for months and destroy large chunks of NS. It's not all roses like you make it seem. It's a good spin, but ignorant of the whole picture.

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1344981519' post='3021971']
Unfortunately we're not the bogeyman many are looking for.

(Not that I expect that will stop anyone.)
[/quote]
That goes without saying. It's not meant to be a shot against you, but nobody will see an alliance with 2.5 mil NS, an average NS of 17,000, and an alliance who generally plays second fiddle to MK, as the great evil of our time. You'll have to grow, lead a coalition, and stop being a tech farm if you want to accomplish that. Of course, you've stated previously you have no desire to do that. So, let's just all stop talking about GOONS here and get back to the political message in the OP.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1344995815' post='3022045']
That goes without saying.
[/quote]

The course this very thread has taken betrays your message. It doesn't exactly go without saying when so many parties are quick to bring up EoGs and the Mercy Board at just about every opportunity for no purpose other than to vilify us.

And no, I'm not playing victim here. But saying it goes without saying that GOONS isn't the bogeyman doesn't jive with the fact that we're so frequently portrayed as such (see: earlier in this thread).

I'll agree though that this thread isn't about GOONS, and shouldn't be.

[Starfox101]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1344996460' post='3022049']
The course this very thread has taken betrays your message. It doesn't exactly go without saying when so many parties are quick to bring up EoGs and the Mercy Board at just about every opportunity for no purpose other than to vilify us.

And no, I'm not playing victim here. But saying it goes without saying that GOONS isn't the bogeyman doesn't jive with the fact that we're so frequently portrayed as such (see: earlier in this thread).

I'll agree though that this thread isn't about GOONS, and shouldn't be.
[/quote]
That is just a facet of something that makes them angry. That does necessarily make you the boogeyman people want. You guys tend to piss alot of people off, but to be the main bad guy you need power and influence. You can't play second fiddle.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1344996584' post='3022050']
That is just a facet of something that makes them angry. That does necessarily make you the boogeyman people want. You guys tend to piss alot of people off, but to be the main bad guy you need power and influence. You can't play second fiddle.
[/quote]

I don't think you're quite getting it. I never said we're the bogeyman people want. Those people though are quick to portray us as such.

(You conceded that we don't seem to want to fit the bill... but continue offering advice on how that can change. Kindly spare me.)

Edited August 15, 2012 by SirWilliam

[Starfox101]

It's advice or a fact depending on how you want to take it. I meant it as fact.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1344999641' post='3022065']
It's advice or a fact depending on how you want to take it. I meant it as fact.
[/quote]

Heh, semantics. Either way it was tangential to my point: That what you're saying isn't supported by what others are.

[D34th]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1344981519' post='3021971']
Unfortunately we're not the bogeyman many are looking for.

(Not that I expect that will stop anyone.)
[/quote]

Don't worry, we all know that GOONS isn't the disease who infects cybeverse, GOONS is just one of the side effects.

[Iotupa]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1344965817' post='3021909']
We both know full well that JB isn't capable of 'good political discourse'. Regardless, enjoy yourself.
[/quote]

Aww, poor Goldilocks, still all torn up over a single line of text from years ago.

The fact of the matter is that what I said is right, no matter how much you attempt to continue your odd vendetta against me (though I am proud you did not accuse me of being the architect of the Emerald Affairs again, that's definitely progress for you). What VE did by cancelling the GOD treaty and snuggling further up to those in power is only similar to Voxian ideals in that you are actually being honest with your intentions at this point. Other than that tiny bit, it has zero similarities.

Also GOONS

Edited August 15, 2012 by Jonathan Brookbank

[Crymson]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1344996460' post='3022049']
I'll agree though that this thread isn't about GOONS, and shouldn't be.
[/quote]

Nay, this thread is about Schattenman wanting to call attention to what he feels are his important accomplishments in CN. Nowhere in CN have I ever seen anybody else so single-minded in pursuit of attention and recognition as him; and this is a [ooc]game[/ooc] in which there are droves of people who strive ardently for just those things.

Give it up already, Schatt.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Crymson

[bkphysics]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1345017336' post='3022102']
Nay, this thread is about Schattenman wanting to call attention to what he feels are his important accomplishments in CN. Nowhere in CN have I ever seen anybody else so single-minded in pursuit of attention and recognition as him; and this is a [ooc]game[/ooc] in which there are droves of people who strive ardently for just those things.

Give it up already, Schatt.
[/quote]

Yeah because Schatt has ALWAYS stated that Vox Populi was all about him and his motives ... Schatt has always been the spokesperson for Vox Populi, and hence a majority of their posts come from him. This message doesn't show a selfish dedication to himself, but rather to the ideals that VP represented when it was created and a celebration of truly what enabled the Hipsters and their ilk to rise to power. Along with this, a call is given for those who have fallen asleep at the wheel, who have allowed what was once defeated to rise again and corrupt their hearts.

Mindlessly regurgitating such simple retorts as "lol attention whore much" simply shows the simplicity with which you think and express yourself. In the future, it could prove prudent to take a moment and rub together some brain cells and create a retort that actually carries with it some substance and factual basis towards your claims.

[Baltus]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' timestamp='1345008306' post='3022090']
What VE did by cancelling the GOD treaty and snuggling further up to those in power is only similar to Voxian ideals in that you are actually being honest with your intentions at this point.
[/quote]
You can expect a MADP with MK any day now. We are loyal toadies if nothing else.

[Goldie]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' timestamp='1345008306' post='3022090']
Aww, poor Goldilocks, still all torn up over a single line of text from years ago.

The fact of the matter is that what I said is right, no matter how much you attempt to continue your odd vendetta against me (though I am proud you did not accuse me of being the architect of the Emerald Affairs again, that's definitely progress for you). What VE did by cancelling the GOD treaty and snuggling further up to those in power is only similar to Voxian ideals in that you are actually being honest with your intentions at this point. Other than that tiny bit, it has zero similarities.[/quote]

Not really, I wear that single line of text as a badge of honor, it just goes to show how politically incompetent you are that in one line of text you can kill your entire alliance.

Who exactly are we snuggling up to with this cancellation? The same allies we had before the cancellation? Two of which we were in a bloc with up until a couple of months ago? I fail to see how this changes anything other than we no longer feel the need to defend SF/XX when it runs counter to our core of allies.

Edited August 15, 2012 by goldielax25

[Sardonic]

More like:
Declaration from Vox Populi
[i]The Struggle For Modern Relevance Continues[/i]

Edited August 15, 2012 by Sardonic

[D34th]

- [i]You're irrelevant! [/i] says the tech farm.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1345051545' post='3022178']
Not really, I wear that single line of text as a badge of honor, it just goes to show how politically incompetent you are that in one line of text you can kill your entire alliance.

Who exactly are we snuggling up to with this cancellation? The same allies we had before the cancellation? Two of which we were in a bloc with up until a couple of months ago? I fail to see how this changes anything other than we no longer feel the need to defend SF/XX when it runs counter to our core of allies.
[/quote]
As much as I like to bag on VE, going to have to agree with this man. Much ado is being made needlessly. Was anyone really surprised by the cancellation? If it was all about politics and self preservation VE would have dumped GOD a couple wars back.

/me stumbles back to angry VE ranting now

[potato]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1344995815' post='3022045']
That is true, and those are positive changes for the longevity of the world. However, along with that we've seen as many negative changes brought about. There's absolutely no political discourse anymore, whenever anyone disagrees with MK and co., the troll squad comes out and harasses them, rather than argue with them. There is the threat of preemptive, no CB wars, that last for months and destroy large chunks of NS. It's not all roses like you make it seem. It's a good spin, but ignorant of the whole picture.
[/quote]

You're lying to yourself if you remember political discussions around here. Shark Week and NPO's actions (secret terms anyone?), for example, prevent it from happening.

Now, for the sake of the discussion, let's admit there actually was political discourse before. I always thought the opposition had to bring it to the table. See, the hegemony (whether it is MK or NPO) is untouchable so they do whatever they want (attacking GPA, noCB, attacking NPO, attacking CSN...). So it is the job of the opposition to actually oppose them in a convincing way.
In the past, whether you agree with them or not, you had people like Archon, Denial, Schatt, Tyga... who could and would argue against the powers that be. Look at what MK is left with: people like d34th, Alterego, IYIyth, King Wally, SCY... who, when they are not spouting moronic lies and drooling all over themselves, are just being contrarian for the sake of looking cool by sticking it to the man.

[Starfox101]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1345070415' post='3022247']
You're lying to yourself if you remember political discussions around here. Shark Week and NPO's actions (secret terms anyone?), for example, prevent it from happening.

Now, for the sake of the discussion, let's admit there actually was political discourse before. I always thought the opposition had to bring it to the table. See, the hegemony (whether it is MK or NPO) is untouchable so they do whatever they want (attacking GPA, noCB, attacking NPO, attacking CSN...). So it is the job of the opposition to actually oppose them in a convincing way.
In the past, whether you agree with them or not, you had people like Archon, Denial, Schatt, Tyga... who could and would argue against the powers that be. Look at what MK is left with: people like d34th, Alterego, IYIyth, King Wally, SCY... who, when they are not spouting moronic lies and drooling all over themselves, are just being contrarian for the sake of looking cool by sticking it to the man.
[/quote]
Yes, but that was what, 5 years ago? In the Vox era, political discourse was as good as it ever was. NPO was rightly out to debate all of it's enemies, along with their allies. These days, you couldn't get a debate out of the MK troll squad if you paid them. The stage in general features all too many people quick to insults, who mistake speaking out as a PR error, or something that makes you unintelligent. I've never really seen Archon out to debate NPO in their prime. If I recall, didn't you guys sign a treaty with NPO whilst we in Vox fought? Denial was just ages ago, so that's just grasping at straws. Most certainly, MK only led the backroom resistance.

And look, I was sharked. So, yes, I remember.

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1345017336' post='3022102']
Nowhere in CN have I ever seen anybody else so single-minded in pursuit of attention and recognition as him[/quote]

Surely you have not forgotten about The Bad now have you? Compared to me he is positively subtle. Looks like I need to remind all of Planet Bob who the number one attention whore is. Me. Also welcome back Vox. Looks I have returned at an interesting time.

Edited August 15, 2012 by The Big Bad

[Starfox101]

[quote name='The Big Bad' timestamp='1345072472' post='3022259']
Surely you have not forgotten about The Bad now have you? Compared to me he is positively subtle. Looks like I need to remind all of Planet Bob who the number one attention whore is. Me. Also welcome back Vox. Looks I have returned at an interesting time.
[/quote]
We are not back, I'm sorry.

Welcome back, though.

[bkphysics]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1345070415' post='3022247']
In the past, whether you agree with them or not, you had people like Archon, Denial, Schatt, Tyga... who could and would argue against the powers that be. Look at what MK is left with: people like d34th, Alterego, IYIyth, King Wally, SCY... who, when they are not spouting moronic lies and drooling all over themselves, are just being contrarian for the sake of looking cool by sticking it to the man.
[/quote]

Though I will not agree that the people you mentioned are not worthy of holding up a voice against the current powers that be, you leave out the fact that their discourse is a reflection of what they are up against. In the past you had powers that carried themselves in a more distinguished manner and utilized less childish antics and manners. This begged a very refined and well thought out opposition.

With the current powers in place, there has been a severe degradation in the standards of such simple things as posting on the forum here. Where you call their words "moronic lies" and say they are just being contradictory towards the man to look "cool" reflects the level of idiocy and simple mindedness they are up against. Often when a post is made against the current powers it is met with pathetic memes, playground verbal bullying, and dash attempts to look 'cool' among peers. It is not necessary to elevate one's standards to make the current powers out in a bad light, their mere actions do that for them.

[D34th]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1345070415' post='3022247']
You're lying to yourself if you remember political discussions around here. Shark Week and NPO's actions (secret terms anyone?), for example, prevent it from happening.

Now, for the sake of the discussion, let's admit there actually was political discourse before. I always thought the opposition had to bring it to the table. See, the hegemony (whether it is MK or NPO) is untouchable so they do whatever they want (attacking GPA, noCB, attacking NPO, attacking CSN...). So it is the job of the opposition to actually oppose them in a convincing way.
In the past, whether you agree with them or not, you had people like Archon, Denial, Schatt, Tyga... who could and would argue against the powers that be. Look at what MK is left with: people like d34th, Alterego, IYIyth, King Wally, SCY... who, when they are not spouting moronic lies and drooling all over themselves, are just being contrarian for the sake of looking cool by sticking it to the man.
[/quote]

NPO/allies and their posters did their best to discredit the opposition in Pax-Pacifica age, the same thing that your alliance is now(well, since Karma) doing. The difference is that you either don't have the power or the courage to do something like shark week, so your alliance use things like WPE, [i]ad hominem[/i] attacks and other filthy tactics to try to achieve the same objective.

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1345072585' post='3022260']
We are not back, I'm sorry.

Welcome back, though.
[/quote]

Hey StarFox good to so you back on Bob.

[Stonewall Jaxon]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1345070415' post='3022247']
You're lying to yourself if you remember political discussions around here. Shark Week and NPO's actions (secret terms anyone?), for example, prevent it from happening.

Now, for the sake of the discussion, let's admit there actually was political discourse before. I always thought the opposition had to bring it to the table. See, the hegemony (whether it is MK or NPO) is untouchable so they do whatever they want (attacking GPA, noCB, attacking NPO, attacking CSN...). So it is the job of the opposition to actually oppose them in a convincing way.
In the past, whether you agree with them or not, you had people like Archon, Denial, Schatt, Tyga... who could and would argue against the powers that be. Look at what MK is left with: people like d34th, Alterego, IYIyth, King Wally, SCY... who, when they are not spouting moronic lies and drooling all over themselves, are just being contrarian for the sake of looking cool by sticking it to the man.
[/quote]

I realize the counter to this point has already been made by Starfox, but I'd like for you to recall with me the time in CN at which I saw political discourse reach its highest level. That period was directly at the founding of Vox, when walls of text were posted by members joining the newfound revolution, and NPO's spin brigade was doing its damnedest to produce an equal amount of text to try to put a lid on the whole thing. If you recall, in the "MK Leaks" thread recently, Archon came out of his shell and talked with me for a few posts, and despite my carefulness to keep my posts free of excessive vitriol, Archon eventually threw a bit of a fit and withdrew back into the shell:

[quote name='Archon' timestamp='1341286665' post='3002117']
Truth be told, I just wanted to waste some time. But this is just depressing. Back in 06-07 we had to actually try and make points. You people are just pathetic. It's nothing but opinion-as-fact or trying desperately to sell !@#$%^&* as reality. Dear god. How I long for Josef Thorne, Philosopher, or even !@#$@#$ Z'ha'dum at this point.
[/quote]

The issue DoomHouse posters seem to have with guys like me is our astounding persistence. To validate that claim, we do tend to go into just about any MK or GOONS announcement and immediately take issue with every [i]word[/i] in the OP, but that's the price you pay for being powerful- your detractors will never stop nipping at your heels. MK and GOONS will respond with guys like Bansky, Neo Uruk, Vanilla Napalm, mrwuss, etc, but I am certain the general CN community cannot be blind to the horrid quality of their posts when compared to their enemies'. I mean D34th, supercoolyellow, and IYIyth aren't known for posting walls of texts, but their original criticisms in a thread generally revolve around an historical parallel or some sort of callout on hypocrisy between Karma MK and modern MK. The DH responses are always personal attacks, something that has always been common, but in the old day accusing someone of "ad hominem" was considered a fairly serious accusation and would generally keep people on their best behavior. Now, that kind of behavior is always a shame when countering fairly experienced guys like IYIyth, but when Schattenmann makes a lengthy post or blog only to be countered by the same one-sentence quips and personal attacks such as:

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1345059069' post='3022198']
More like:
Declaration from Vox Populi
[i]The Struggle For Modern Relevance Continues[/i]
[/quote]

Now, since discourse is always a two-way street I hate to place fault for the piss-poor average quality of discussions in CN these days on one side, but surely they can at least [i]try[/i] to do better.


But more to your point, which I haven't addressed as it pertains to NPO's stifling of discussion pre-Vox, there was still the FAN guys and their like. The thing about a one-bloc-dominated system is that the only guys willing to stick their necks out to criticize the lead bloc are the ones who are already on the bloc's blacklist regardless of what their members say or do. We see this today just as we did then, alliances not necessarily allied directly to MK aren't joining in on the discourse in these threads because they can't afford to be "next." Once alliances formerly protected by the lead bloc start getting picked off by it because they were seen as a threat, everybody else generally clams up and tries desperately not to draw attention. If I were, say, Duckroll for instance right now, I'd be telling my members to keep their heads down or else the crosshairs will surely shift right over to our backs. However, I've shifted from listing problems to speculating as to the causes of those problems, so I'll concede that my logic is debatable, but the fact is not, and that's that today, just as before, only the ousted population has to gumption to speak out as we do. The difference now is usually that we're ousted by choice whereas entities like Vox and FAN were generally either perma-warred or put on PZI lists before they became part of the dedicated opposition, but nonetheless discourse now, as then, is reserved for the select few.

[Starfox101]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1345059069' post='3022198']
More like:
Declaration from Vox Populi
[i]The Struggle For Modern Relevance Continues[/i]
[/quote]
Yep, because Vox Populi is still around and trying to be relevant, just like GOONS. It's a birthday thread. If Vox wanted to be relevant, we would be.

You aren't funny, by the way.

[quote name='The Big Bad' timestamp='1345076908' post='3022271']
Hey StarFox good to so you back on Bob.
[/quote]
Let's raise hell.

[quote name='Stonewall Jaxon' timestamp='1345077597' post='3022276']
The thing about a one-bloc-dominated system is that the only guys willing to stick their necks out to criticize the lead bloc are the ones who are already on the bloc's blacklist
[/quote]
Not always true.