Imperial Announcement from the New Pacific Order

[Tibus Heth]

Lines being drawn...

[constablepotato]

Sad to hear such a long treaty being cancelled. Best of luck to both parties in the future.

I am sure this will only bring a new era of awesomeness from our friends in Invicta.
o/ Invicta

[alyster]

[quote name='Jorost' timestamp='1334456867' post='2953561']
I deeply regret that the relationship between Invicta and NPO has come to this point. I am well aware of the scorn with which others viewed it, [b]but I regarded our relationship with Pacifica as a partnership[/b], and I believe they did too. Is it such a sin for a small alliance to seek a larger partner of similar views? Frankly I have never understood the derision.[/quote]

Sorry bud, but this is hilarious. Nascar has always referred to your era as when Invicta was NPO's puppet.

[Thrash]

[quote name='alyster' timestamp='1334502716' post='2953746']
Sorry bud, but this is hilarious. Nascar has always referred to your era as when Invicta was NPO's puppet.
[/quote]

Why do you think we got rid of him?

[Farrin Xies]

[quote name='Tibus Heth' timestamp='1334500612' post='2953740']
Lines being drawn...
[/quote]

Yeah... no. Let's go ahead and not fill this announcement with even more stupid !@#$ than it already has in it.

[BloodFury]

I believe this is a move that has long been drawn out and the relationship has been one that was over a long time ago. Why people have hurt feelings over something that was going to happen regardless of current events is beyond me. To the best in both parties futures.

[Farrin Xies]

[quote name='BloodFury' timestamp='1334513582' post='2953801']
I believe this is a move that has long been drawn out and the relationship has been one that was over a long time ago. Why people have hurt feelings over something that was going to happen regardless of current events is beyond me. To the best in both parties futures.
[/quote]

It's a sad day when BloodFury gets something that so few others seem to get

[Devilyn Caster]

Good luck to NPO, this was months coming.

o/

[Chaoshawk]

[quote name='Farrin Xies' timestamp='1334513782' post='2953802']
It's a sad day when BloodFury gets something that so few others seem to get
[/quote]
You must admit, the amount of speculation and rhetoric in this thread is quite entertaining.

[rotty]

Good Luck to ya NPO o/

ohai brucemna

Cheers

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='Daimos' timestamp='1334497105' post='2953731']
Being associated with NPO and Haf I think were the main reasons. I do not think it is a fair assessment.

Invicta is one of the alliance I personally like and hope some day our paths will merge again.

Good luck Invicta. I mean that to the truest sense of the word. /salute
[/quote]

Also, the name change. It made Invicta extraordinarily easy to make fun of. I think even most people who like Invicta would agree the name change was a bad idea.

But it was mostly Haf imo.

[Micheal Malone]

[quote name='Thrash' timestamp='1334504998' post='2953754']
Why do you think we got rid of him?
[/quote]

Truth hurts and you got tired of hearing it?

[Ayatollah Bromeini]

[quote name='Rotavele' timestamp='1334466616' post='2953631']
;D Congratulations Invicta,

NPO has turned its back on the rest of its world to roll around in the dirt with MK and Co.
[/quote]

Because MK is totally allied to NPO.

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='Quiziotle' timestamp='1334467582' post='2953638']
remember when you were trying to join MK like three months ago
[/quote]
Or when she was actually a member of NPO...

It's ok. Give it a few more months and she won't have any more alliances to hop to.

[xR1 Fatal Instinct]

This was going to happen eventually. Pacifica has been slowly moving towards TLR and the other side of the curb stomp for some time now. It's unfortunate to see such good friends part ways and is always a shame that NPO never got the chance to defend Invicta as Invicta did all those times to Pacifica, regardless of the numbers against them.

[berbers]

Sad to see the end of such a long partnership, best of luck to both parties.

NPO

o/ Pacifica

[Jorost]

[quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1334516766' post='2953815']
Also, the name change. It made Invicta extraordinarily easy to make fun of. I think even most people who like Invicta would agree the name change was a bad idea.

But it was mostly Haf imo.
[/quote]

Yeah, the name change was the single worst decision I ever made.

Look, I need to say something here. It sounds to me like the hatred was not directed at the individual members of Invicta, but at the alliance itself, the decisions it made, the paths it took. If that's the case, then your beef is with me, and me alone. As the longest-serving leader of Invicta I was an absolute dictator, my word was law and my whims were... well, not always the best idea. I mean "Regnum Invictorum?" What the [Invictan expletive] was I [i]thinking[/i]?!

You say that Invicta did nothing but massage NPO's feet. That's a new one, I hadn't heard that one. "Lapdog" and "meatshield" are the old standbys. I get how people would think that. But look at it from my point of view: Our relationship with NPO gave us a degree of influence that we could not otherwise have enjoyed based on our size and strength. We were -- we [i]are[/i] -- a very small fish. There was no formal ceding of sovereignty, not at all. But it would be fair to describe NPO as a kind of patron. If we were not technically a vassal, we were certainly keenly aware of NPO's geopolitical positions and goals, and made our own decisions accordingly.

This is not, in my opinion, an unusual way for a (very) junior partner in a partnership to act. And let's face it, at that time it was a pretty bipolar World of Bob. You picked a side and you stuck with it. Not many chose a third path. But yes, like I said, I get the lapdog thing. But don't blame the alliance, blame me.

Anything you dislike about Invicta from my time (1/19/09-1/19/11) is my singular responsibility. Anything from after that may still be the result of the culture that I created. None of the current gov't were in power when my reign began; some were not even members. Blame me. I did it. In many cases you may be right. I was a [i]terrible[/i] leader! I ruined Invicta, and lest anyone ever think that doesn't weigh on me: Think again. I often wonder what things might be like had I chosen differently, but we will never know.

I no longer hold anything but ceremonial positions in Invicta. More than a year has passed since I have been actively engaged in the affairs of government, and in that time, our path and NPO's have diverged. This saddens me, but this too shall pass. If people still have grudges against what Invicta was, by all means take them up with me. Otherwise let's just shake hands and go on our separate ways.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Jorost

[Monster]

Excellent post, Jorost, and I hope many current "junior partners" in the overall political arena learn from your experience. Chances are they won't.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Roquentin

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='Jorost' timestamp='1334545834' post='2954037']snip
[/quote]

Solid.

The treaty web is as shifting sands, let's see where this new dynamic takes us.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Kzoppistan

[Tasuki]

Hats off, Jorost.

[Schattenmann]

The only difference between Invicta and other allies of pre-Karma NPO is that Invicta stuck around after. Everyone from Nordreich to IRON has occupied the same position that Invicta catches hell for, and the difference is only that either Invicta never betrayed NPO, or NPO never betrayed Invicta (depending on the former NPO ally you're comparing Invicta to).
I say good job navigating the Pacifican wake for so long to Invicta and good job being a pal to Invicta for so long to NPO. People say NPO never defended Invicta (thereby returning the favor), but I say that Invicta never needed defending is the return.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Schattenmann

[Mary the Fantabulous]

(OOC: I'd have posted sooner, but I only got back home from a trip overseas late last night.)

Despite the distance that's grown between our alliances, the relationship and all the good things we had together will always have a place in my memories and heart. May the road ever rise up to meet you, Invicta.

[Monster]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1334548340' post='2954045']
The only difference between Invicta and other allies of pre-Karma NPO is that Invicta stuck around after. Everyone from Nordreich to IRON has occupied the same position that Invicta catches hell for, and the difference is only that either Invicta never betrayed NPO, or NPO never betrayed Invicta (depending on the former NPO ally you're comparing Invicta to).
I say good job navigating the Pacifican wake for so long to Invicta and good job being a pal to Invicta for so long to NPO. People say NPO never defended Invicta (thereby returning the favor), but I say that Invicta never needed defending is the return.
[/quote]

The issue is, other allies of NPO built independent spheres of influence (DR), (Citadel), (SF), (BLEU). Invicta didn't.

If you sign a treaty simply to avoid getting rolled or for any pragmatic reasons, it makes sense to cancel when the threat or pragmatic reason is no longer there. Treaties are political tools after all.

In many cases, it was never a matter of alliance x, y, z liking NPO and then turning on them. It was more of a measure: "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."


For instance, Fark never liked NPO. They signed the treaty and most people in Fark hated it.


[quote]It was after the signing of the Orange Senate Treaty that IRON began to transition from the Forging Era, when IRON was initially cast, to the Transitional Era. Many changes were occurring throughout IRON, most notably on the IRON Council. Long-time President and Founder Sister Midnight left the Council after over 13 months of service. Sister Midnight then held the Planet Bob record for longest continually serving chief executive. bay102174 took over as President of IRON soon thereafter and would remain President until January 2008. Additionally, long-time Councilor and Founder Glyndwr also stepped down after 13 months of service. In February, Bill n Ted was appointed to the IRON Council and, two months later, was appointed as the IRON Minister of Defense, ushering in a new era of military discipline and organization within IRON.
Before leaving, Sister Midnight sought to change IRON’s foreign policy direction. She urged the Council to lift a long-standing ban on Mutual Defense Pacts or MDPs. Her reasons were made clear: IRON, while resilient and strong, could not stand alone in the fast-changing world of Planet Bob. However, it would be some time before IRON would actually completely lift the MDP ban. By all accounts, Furytear is given a significant degree of credit for his efforts in “securing contacts, leads, friends, and allies.”[/quote]

ooc: Cases like Wallachia should present perfect examples. Whoever gives you the better deal should get your allegiance.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Roquentin

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1334548595' post='2954047']
The issue is, other allies of NPO built independent spheres of influence (DR), (Citadel), (SF), (BLEU). Invicta didn't.

If you sign a treaty simply to avoid getting rolled or for any pragmatic reasons, it makes sense to cancel when the threat or pragmatic reason is no longer there. Treaties are political tools after all.

In many cases, it was never a matter of alliance x, y, z liking NPO and then turning on them. It was more of a measure: "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."
[/quote]
They built those spheres after abandoning NPO like rats or during the Pax Pacifica as little more than extensions of NPO's power. Every sphere has to have more than one alliance in it, and they can't all be egalitarian utopias; there are leaders and there are constituents.
All military treaties are about security! Invicta's relationship with NPO is no different than VE's relationship to GOD and GOONS. Invicta stayed exactly where Invicta wanted to be, the idea that in the case of Invicta having treaties for defense is spinelessness but in the case of Valhalla it's political masterminding is silly. In fact, in keeping a treaty despite the threats, Invicta displayed exactly the sort of altruistic characteristics that were so lacking in the "Coaltion of Cowards."

[Monster]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1334549271' post='2954069']
They built those spheres after abandoning NPO like rats or during the Pax Pacifica as little more than extensions of NPO's power. Every sphere has to have more than one alliance in it, and they can't all be egalitarian utopias; there are leaders and there are constituents.
All military treaties are about security! Invicta's relationship with NPO is no different than VE's relationship to GOD and GOONS. Invicta stayed exactly where Invicta wanted to be, the idea that in the case of Invicta having treaties for defense is spinelessness but in the case of Valhalla it's political masterminding is silly. In fact, in keeping a treaty despite the threats, Invicta displayed exactly the sort of altruistic characteristics that were so lacking in the "Coaltion of Cowards."
[/quote]

Given NPO's propensity to turn on allies when it suited them, nothing was owed.

Invicta did what it wanted, and that's fine, but the idea that throwing off oppressive yolks when the opportunity arises being a bad thing is something I do not want to accept.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Roquentin