Announcement from Pandora's Box

[Courland]

[quote name='death from above 82' timestamp='1334541387' post='2954017']
I have a feeling you are talking about me.
[/quote]

And Bitburg, and Nashorn, and the rest of the old men. The younger [s]guys[/s] rulers have the skills, but they also still have lives...

I'm in the middle, so I have skills but no life. A devastating combination from a posting perspective.

[Dr William Westcher]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1334540637' post='2954013']
Credibility at last.

Anyway, what Malone said is pretty on the mark. [b]JA is no longer leadership. Read the gov list in the OP. His views are therefore not representative of anyone but himself.
[/b]

For Umbrella,

President - domisi
Vice President - threefingeredguy
Field Marshal - Natan
Envoys - Raken, Daikos, NFL Generic, Bassman
Economist - Lord Panis Rahl
Wiseman - Dylan Carter


I am the authority, and like Malone said, I'm not an NG supporter. I will never lend credence to the words of an individual who says I am out of my mind.
[/quote]


If this was true I wouldn't have to watch my words so carefully. From everything I have ever read, every member of an alliance can be held accountable for the things they say at some level.

[Monster]

[quote name='Dr William Westcher' timestamp='1334552258' post='2954111']
If this was true I wouldn't have to watch my words so carefully. From everything I have ever read, every member of an alliance can be held accountable for the things they say at some level.
[/quote]

I don't think he's getting crap for his own opinion on the Umbrella boards. It's never worked like that unless someone was particularly vocal. Like if JA wrote a political tract against GOONS, then there might be an issue. Well we did have radio silence, but I canned it in early 09. I'm not sure about R&R.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Roquentin

[IYIyTh]

No Radio Silence,
Mr. Westcher

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='Dr William Westcher' timestamp='1334552258' post='2954111']
If this was true I wouldn't have to watch my words so carefully. From everything I have ever read, every member of an alliance can be held accountable for the things they say at some level.
[/quote]
OOC: I think that in a political simulator, that is only fair.

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1334443215' post='2953383']
There are several alliances who like to pull the 'aiding a nation at war is an act of war and we will roll you hard' line when it's someone they can easily bully
[/quote]

Well connected alliances are familiar with the correct and diplomatic manner in which to handle situations just like this, which is why don't see this "bullying" you keep talking about. The Mongols were either unaware of or deliberately refused to settle the matter diplomatically and as a result of their actions we declared war on them. If any other alliance did what they had I assure you we would have handled it in the same fashion. It really is that simple. Leave the grandstanding at home.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Emperor Marx

[Courland]

So the withdrawal of the unaccepted aid, the apology, and the complete and abject humiliation of our leader on your Mercy Board were considered our refusal to try to solve the situation diplomatically?

Please.

It was well established that this was a Roll of Opportunity justified by the Law of Might Makes Right in your original DoW. Your propaganda isn't fooling anyone but the alliance-mates who dance to your leader's every tune.

[Phineas]

[quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1334555141' post='2954149']
Well connected alliances are familiar with the correct and diplomatic manner in which to handle situations just like this, which is why don't see this "bullying" you keep talking about. The Mongols were either unaware of or deliberately refused to settle the matter diplomatically and as a result of their actions we declared war on them. If any other alliance did what they had I assure you we would have handled it in the same fashion. It really is that simple. Leave the grandstanding at home.
[/quote]
Sucker punching someone and then demanding an apology, let alone money, and then calling in all of your friends because you got punched back is both bullying and grandstanding.

What you see here, here in all of this feedback: this is an attempt at diplomacy where real diplomacy was never given a chance from the start.

Also, referring to "well-connected" alliances in answering charges of bullying really undermines your objection.

[quote name='Courland' timestamp='1334556160' post='2954155']
So the withdrawal of the unaccepted aid, the apology, and the complete and abject humiliation of our leader on your Mercy Board were considered our refusal to try to solve the situation diplomatically?

Please.

It was well established that this was a Roll of Opportunity justified by the Law of Might Makes Right in your original DoW. Your propaganda isn't fooling anyone but the alliance-mates who dance to your leader's every tune.
[/quote]

Offering to be their ally probably would have sufficed as payment. I have a feeling that's all they really wanted in the first place. Goonies and alliances like them need lots of love and attention to survive and this is the only way they know how to get it.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Phineas

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Courland' timestamp='1334556160' post='2954155']
So the withdrawal of the unaccepted aid, the apology, and the complete and abject humiliation of our leader on your Mercy Board were considered our refusal to try to solve the situation diplomatically?

Please.

It was well established that this was a Roll of Opportunity justified by the Law of Might Makes Right in your original DoW. Your propaganda isn't fooling anyone but the alliance-mates who dance to your leader's every tune.
[/quote]
Yes some of the aid was cancelled but there was still the matter of the accepted aid, regardless, 18M.

EIGHTEEN. MILLION. DONGS.

I seriously can't believe you people thought we would have rolled you anyway had you actually paid the pittance.

[enderland]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1334577981' post='2954222']
Yes some of the aid was cancelled but there was still the matter of the accepted aid, regardless, 18M.

EIGHTEEN. MILLION. DONGS.

I seriously can't believe you people thought we would have rolled you anyway had you actually paid the pittance.
[/quote]

You of course realize the flipside of this is GOONS called in the entirety of Pandora's Box because they were upset an alliance wouldn't pay a pittance to them.

[Joseph Black]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1334577981' post='2954222']
Yes some of the aid was cancelled but there was still the matter of the accepted aid, regardless, 18M.

EIGHTEEN. MILLION. DONGS.

I seriously can't believe you people thought we would have rolled you anyway had you actually paid the pittance.
[/quote]

Please tell me it was 90million....... Id hate to think I've been rooting for the wrong side.... What are reps at now?

[Dr William Westcher]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1334552336' post='2954112']
I don't think he's getting crap for his own opinion on the Umbrella boards. It's never worked like that unless someone was particularly vocal. Like if JA wrote a political tract against GOONS, then there might be an issue. Well we did have radio silence, but I canned it in early 09. I'm not sure about R&R.
[/quote]


I was referring to the OWF, I don't make rounds on the umbrella boards, so wouldn't know about that (although I feel opinions shared in an alliances personal forum are their own business- otherwise I would have said something when I visited GOONS and was treated to all manner of horrors. "The only thing straight is my right arm?" really? Hilarious, but atrocious."


[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1334552550' post='2954114']
No Radio Silence,
Mr. Westcher
[/quote]

Thats DR. Westcher

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1334553786' post='2954128']
OOC: I think that in a political simulator, that is only fair.
[/quote]

I agree, if the nation in your alliance isn't respectful enough of the current authority to not make slanderous statements or damage the PR of that alliance, he should be help accountable.

[quote name='enderland' timestamp='1334580714' post='2954235']
You of course realize the flipside of this is GOONS called in the entirety of Pandora's Box because they were upset an alliance wouldn't pay a pittance to them.
[/quote]

I thought it was because of the damages sustained?

[Dr William Westcher]

[quote name='Muddog' timestamp='1334581491' post='2954238']
Please tell me it was 90million....... Id hate to think I've been rooting for the wrong side.... What are reps at now?
[/quote]

[quote] [b]Mongols or Kaskus or both are free to accept them at any time, and the conflict will end. One hundred and seventy seven million is to be paid to GOONS, due upon a time of their choosing[/b].[/quote]

[Tick1]

[quote name='Dr William Westcher' timestamp='1334582193' post='2954243']

[/quote]

Might want to add some text into that statement.

Anyhow it's funny that any smart alliance would have found a way to take advantage of the statement

"Mongols or Kaskus or both are free to accept them at any time, and the conflict will end. One hundred and seventy seven million is to be paid to GOONS, [b]due upon a time of their choosing[/b]."

Edited April 16, 2012 by Tick1

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Tick1' timestamp='1334594121' post='2954302']
One hundred and seventy seven million is to be paid to GOONS, [b]due upon a time of their choosing[/b]."
[/quote]

'Their' refers to GOONS, the only named party and subject of the sentence.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Tick1' timestamp='1334594121' post='2954302']
Might want to add some text into that statement.

Anyhow it's funny that any smart alliance would have found a way to take advantage of the statement

"Mongols or Kaskus or both are free to accept them at any time, and the conflict will end. One hundred and seventy seven million is to be paid to GOONS, [b]due upon a time of their choosing[/b]."

If you notice it does not state a specific date and a method of how they send this aid. Meaning they can send it in small aid packets of 1 million over the course of 2 years. They didn't even use the term reasonable time frame. Anyhow, instead of playing a smarter game [b]Kaskus and Mongols have fun losing more Infrastructure and Technology.[/b]
[/quote]

You say that as if it bothers them? Or in fact as if it's a bad thing? Maybe they just don't care about their nations like you do.

[Tick1]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1334594480' post='2954306']
'Their' refers to GOONS, the only named party and subject of the sentence.
[/quote]

That is saddening, I guess people can carry on arguing in circles.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='enderland' timestamp='1334580714' post='2954235']
You of course realize the flipside of this is GOONS called in the entirety of Pandora's Box because they were upset an alliance wouldn't pay a pittance to them.
[/quote]
Sure, do that all you want, but their stubbornness is costing them a lot more than it's costing us.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1334596601' post='2954313']
Sure, do that all you want, but their stubbornness is costing them a lot more than it's costing us.
[/quote]

Please, please, please keep thinking that.

FYI: Valhalla was rogued for a bit a while back by someone who is a member of Kaskus. We handed him his ass. He smiled and walked away without a whimper.

They're here for the party, not the stats. You are other hand, Sardonic, are here for the stats and are trying to wear the "respectable gentleman" hat and it's not fitting you--actually its rather unintentionally funny.

[the rebel]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1334596601' post='2954313']
Sure, do that all you want, [b]but their stubbornness is costing them a lot more than it's costing us.[/b][/quote]

Oh so there is more than one way to view this situation, thanks for showing me the less obvious one.

Edited April 16, 2012 by the rebel

[Sardonic]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1334597204' post='2954316']
Please, please, please keep thinking that.

FYI: Valhalla was rogued for a bit a while back by someone who is a member of Kaskus. We handed him his ass. He smiled and walked away without a whimper.
[/quote]
Woah, good work handling a rogue that was probably in your prime ranges, alliance who never fights. That's totally comparable and relevant to this situation.

[Timberland]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1334597204' post='2954316']
Please, please, please keep thinking that.

FYI: Valhalla was rogued for a bit a while back by someone who is a member of Kaskus. We handed him his ass. He smiled and walked away without a whimper.

They're here for the party, not the stats. You are other hand, Sardonic, are here for the stats and are trying to wear the "respectable gentleman" hat and it's not fitting you--actually its rather unintentionally funny.
[/quote]

Wow you handled one rogue; a feat in CN that no one has ever done. We get dozen of rogues daily, and have had a guy who has been at war with us for over 2 years with the same nation.

[Sephiroth]

So to get my understanding of the situation correct, an unaligned nation was doing tech deals with Mongols, Non Grata and FOK. The nation got raided getting their money stolen they were suppose to use for tech deals by GOONS. Mongols then send the nation some money to help their business associate out. Now GOONS has declared on Mongols for it expecting reps when they attacked a nation doing tech deals, as well as have managed to get Non Grata, FOK, VE and other alliances to assist in their extortion? Don't most alliances offer some assistance to their tech dealers if they get raided while doing tech deals and aren't tech raiders suppose to check if the nations they are raiding are doing tech deals with alliances before raiding?

Why are so many alliances trying to help GOONS extract reps here when they were clearly wrong and should of been the ones paying reps for their raid on a nation holding onto money from several alliances for tech deals?

Edited April 16, 2012 by Methrage

[Timberland]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1334599609' post='2954340']
So to get my understanding of the situation correct, an unaligned nation was doing tech deals with Mongols, Non Grata and FOK. The nation got raided getting their money stolen they were suppose to use for tech deals by GOONS. Mongols then send the nation some money to help their business associate out. Now GOONS has declared on Mongols for it expecting reps when they attacked a nation doing tech deals, as well as have managed to get Non Grata, FOK, VE and other alliances to assist in their extortion? Don't most alliances offer some assistance to their tech dealers if they get raided while doing tech deals and aren't tech raiders suppose to check if the nations they are raiding are doing tech deals with alliances before raiding?

Why are so many alliances trying to help GOONS extract reps here when they were clearly wrong and should of been the ones paying reps for their raid on a nation holding onto money from several alliances for tech deals?
[/quote]

Go back and reread one of the 12 threads mongols or kaskus has made of this war, i'm sure its in there instead making us sound like a broken record. Then again you are methrage so you're probably inebriated.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Timberland' timestamp='1334599829' post='2954342']
Go back and reread one of the 12 threads mongols or kaskus has made of this war, i'm sure its in there instead making us sound like a broken record. Then again you are methrage so you're probably inebriated.
[/quote]
I think I summarized what the war is about without people needing to read 12 threads, minus the flood of posts by you guys drowning out any real information on what happened to cause this war to begin with.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Methrage