An Announcement from TLR and NPO

[Roadie]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1330992248' post='2934260']
The thing is, Roadie, people are kind of hung up on that. The thing is, it's not like I didn't try to advocate these views in private. The other issue is that public perception is very important, so if I can lure people into making mistakes out here, it's a good thing. I mean, they're just tripping over themselves.
[/quote]

To be honest, government supported spying that was nearly en masse is more than enough mistake to get an alliance clobbered. I'm also sure that when the collection plate comes around, that is one of the things people will be making MK pay for and I don't think anything that can be teased out or exposed here on the OWF can top what they've already gifted their detractors. I'm not sure it hasn't become or runs the risk of becoming counterproductive to your cause.

Certainly bad mouthing this treaty is not what you want to be doing, that'll only make the alliances connected to this thing more likely to go the way you don't want them to go.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Roadie

[Thrash]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1330992489' post='2934268']
No one in many govs gives a !@#$ about what MK does, Thrash, so I am opening up the world of politics to the public as a consequence. In addition, I see it as a net benefit for the forums. It is making them more entertaining, no?
[/quote]

I think you are incorrect about your assessment that no one gives a !@#$, but meh. It is more entertaining, but you need more bombs.

[Monster]

[quote name='Roadie' timestamp='1330992738' post='2934276']
To be honest, government supported spying that was nearly en masse is more than enough mistake to get an alliance clobbered. I'm also sure that when the collection plate comes around, that is one of the things people will be making MK pay for and I don't think anything that can be teased out or exposed here on the OWF can top what they've already gifted their detractors. I'm not sure it hasn't or runs the risk of becoming counterproductive to your cause.

Certainly bad mouthing is treaty is not what you want to be doing, that'll only make the alliances connected to this thing more likely to go the way you don't want them to go.
[/quote]

I dunno, given that I basically exposed how DH perceives it and that not everyone is hunky dory with it, it's worth the gamble. It's not like TLR is going to break off at any point. Their stance is well-known. It'd be smarter to understand that I am targetting it as an extra limb to MK's shiva.

The thing is also, at this point, I realize no one "important" cares about what I say either way, so I don't mind being here with the non-gov people. They'll do what they want when they want.

edit:The idea that I have to provide constant bombs is also another thing I don't really like since that was never asked of Ardus and co. when they were just as public about their mission. I'm not a deus ex machina and I can't make everything happen for you single-handedly.

If shutting up would guarantee some form of action, I might do it, but honestly I see the whole "you're too open about it," stuff as a weird hang-up since I'm not really worried about my safety.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Roquentin

[alyster]

[quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1330992561' post='2934270']
Amusing to see the role reversal between the two.
[/quote]

What has happened to you dude, you look more like your signature each day.

Also use irc Charles

Edited March 6, 2012 by alyster

[Monster]

Charles is the best. I don't really think he's changed. I knew he was intelligent and talented when he was in NPO and he's the same guy now.

[Charles Stuart]

[quote name='alyster' timestamp='1330994160' post='2934293']
What has happened to you dude, you look more like your signature each day.

Also use irc Charles
[/quote]

Hah, I have always been this way. Though I do manage to have a shave every so often so forgive me if my appearance right now is somehow simian in nature.

OOC: University computers blocks IRC

[quote]Charles is the best. I don't really think he's changed. I knew he was intelligent and talented when he was in NPO and he's the same guy now.[/quote]

Should have known me when I was running around with Starfox being a general all around nuisance. Not much has really changed now that I think on it

[Phineas]

Roq, Roadie makes a good point, but I'm not sure how I feel about it since... "we" (not pointing at us specifically, but proverbially posting here) also used to say the same thing about Vox.

edit, which is why I will repeat that I am happy to see an interesting treaty, even if we have no idea how interesting it really is or is not

Edited March 6, 2012 by Phineas

[Monster]

Difference is, there are no Van Hoos or Deltas or Xiph type characters anymore in this case. People don't have enough initiative. In order to do it by private channels, there have to be people who are willing to put the effort and time into it. As of now, people are too scared to sever from their tertiary links or complacent or they just don't care. It's ironic that I used to be called a pixel hugger.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Roquentin

[Phineas]

Oh, they are out there. Of that I am sure.

Also back on topic, they also are paying close attention to treaties like this, but not posting one way or the other.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Phineas

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1330990150' post='2934224']
What makes you think I was going to let you be [b]DON[/b] Quixote? I'm still puzzling out which one of the trinity of Schattenmann, Roquentin, and Myth gets to be Don Quixote and which gets to be Sancho. Right now I'm leaning towards Schattenmann as Don Quixote and you and Myth as Sanchos, but I'll keep an open mind.
[/quote]
Heaven forbid I develop, act upon, and preach an ideology which results in the empowerment of alliances to do exactly what you've been whining about for over a year. I may be meeting reality with ideology, but I'm far from delusional

[Mandellav]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1330979629' post='2934098']
Rush:

What dismissively arrogant attitude? Your ridiculous opinions are why I didn't really have the time for taking it. I already said C&G had a ton of representation in the upper ranks, almost just as much as PB. I was never told about any GR issues other than the CCC thing.

Yes, Mandellav threw a fit over not knowing about the preempt, which was not my fault whatsoever and I got blamed for that. He threw some whiny moralistic fit over something he endorsed in October.

The thing is, in terms of Roq-style coalition leadership, I generally don't treat people badly and am usually more annoyed when people won't oA when it is needed. The TLR ODP and preempt were used to bring C&G to the forefront, which is something they did not want. So either you used it to bring people on a front they didn't want in on or you had the "PREEMPTED OUR ODP partner" justification.

A more conventional approach would have doomed fark right away, because attacking TOP/IRON was a one way ticket to the meatgrinder, which is why they attacked NPO.
[/quote]

I wasn't mad at you Roq. I could have given two turds about you during NPO/DH. I was upset with MK and ODN for keeping =LOST= out of the loop. You owed me nothing and I expected nothing from you.

As for my whiny moralistic fit, I wrote a manifesto actually condoning pre-empts for any reason by any aggressor such that in peace talks, tech reparations and other such eccentric penalties should not be levied on defeated parties.

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1330991428' post='2934240']
That is you personally, but you are a member of the government of the Mushroom Kingdom. It has also been mentioned that GOONS joined in as well in order to cover their asses with C&G.

I'd feel somewhat slighted that I was never told about how much C&G hated me by ODN, but I dunno.


Thrash: it was the best plan possible as opposed to you guys going in for an easy rolling. The issue was it took too long to get people into pm and he had RL stuff too. They basically just wanted you go all in and they could easily grind you down that way. It'd have been worse than the BiPolar outcome if no PM strat was used. The wait also allowed stuff like NSO-IRON to happen.

it's also important to keep in mind that Grub had been telling Crymson that he was against the CB, so it lead to a false impression.
[/quote]

Once again, for the record, nobody said a word about GOONS.

[bakamitai]

I'm going to derail this discussion by hailing TLR, who have proven themselves to be not only friends but brothers in arms. I am glad that this treaty has finally been announced, and I am glad to have signed my name to it.

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Mandellav' timestamp='1331009369' post='2934417']
I wasn't mad at you Roq. I could have given two turds about you during NPO/DH. I was upset with MK and ODN for keeping =LOST= out of the loop. You owed me nothing and I expected nothing from you.

As for my whiny moralistic fit, I wrote a manifesto actually condoning pre-empts for any reason by any aggressor such that in peace talks, tech reparations and other such eccentric penalties should not be levied on defeated parties.
[/quote]


This is what I don't get. There have been several posts from TLR members in this thread that pretty much said MK/ODN screwed you guys over in the DH/NPO war. Yet you disband/merge your alliances and still roll merrily along riding in MK's shirt pocket all the same. Maybe this treaty is a way to begin to break away from that chain but that would be quite a surprise.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Vol Navy

[Mandellav]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1331014857' post='2934491']
This is what I don't get. There have been several posts from TLR members in this thread that pretty much said MK/ODN screwed you guys over in the DH/NPO war. Yet you disband/merge your alliances and still roll merrily along riding in MK's shirt pocket all the same. Maybe this treaty is a way to begin to break away from that chain but that would be quite a surprise.
[/quote]

Screwed us over? No. We won that war easily. But lapses in communication occurred that have since been apologized for and communication has been spectacular since then.

As for MK's shirt pocket, it's comfortable and their pocket protector keeps us safe from wayward ink. This treaty is a strategic friendship that benefits us and our allies and is in no way meant to be leverage over our other allies--simply an extension of all of our protection.

[LeDee]

I get i t, but I still vomited a little bit...

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1330982345' post='2934130']
Also I hope the underlying criticism is also targeted at Impero, because he was running the show too.
[/quote]

Let's leave Impero out of this conversation he's happily not paying any attention to.


Godspeed on the treaty and whatnot.

[JoshuaR]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1330990093' post='2934222']
Haha. Yes, the embassy posts were full with !@#$ about me. That totally didn't happen. I mean, it's not like JoshuaR didn't say "well, they didn't have problems with the rest of us, all on you, so we don't really care."
[/quote]
JoshuaR didn't say that. But there are so many double negatives and fake quotes around a paraphrase of your warped interpretation of what an MK Toadie would say that it gets a bit twisted, I see.

Also, congrats to TLR and the NPO. It'll be a fun grouping seeing as so many people on this side of the web enjoyed rolling Pacifica so much.

Edited March 6, 2012 by JoshuaR

[Londo Mollari]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1331007849' post='2934409']
Heaven forbid I develop, act upon, and preach an ideology which results in the empowerment of alliances to do exactly what you've been whining about for over a year. I may be meeting reality with ideology, but I'm far from delusional
[/quote]


Llamas do not whine. They spit and they bite. They also continue to offer congratulations to TLR and NPO on this fine treaty. It is very shiny and we love both alliances very much.


The only political thing I remember you trying was to in anywhere near recent memory was to attempt to form a war coalition with Peggy Sue and the UPN to take down GOONS.







Acta non verba.

[Farrin Xies]

[quote name='bakamitai' timestamp='1331013029' post='2934467']
I'm going to derail this discussion by hailing TLR, who have proven themselves to be not only friends but brothers in arms. I am glad that this treaty has finally been announced, and I am glad to have signed my name to it.
[/quote]

How dare you derail what was a perfectly fun thread full of people trying to tear TLR and MK apart! How dare you actually respond intelligently to the OP! You sir are a monster, and emblematic of the Ebil NPO of Olde.

[Monster]

Joshuar:It's more a paraphrase than direct, I don't really have the patience to search through all of your posts so you can just say it's a warped interpretation when it contains your basic sentiment. At the end of the day, you've consistently generally blamed Umbrella gov members and especially me for any problems while generally pretending MK is always in the right, which is something I've always found ass backwards.

Mandellav: good to know.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Roquentin

[Mandellav]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1331048168' post='2934617']
Mandellav: good to know.
[/quote]

Still, if you are giving yourself credit for running that coalition, your notion that you "assumed" that ODN would tell the rest of CnG what was going on simply confirms the old adage regarding that word.

With great power comes great responsibility, so please do us all a favor and fall on your sword and admit some humility in your mistakes.

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='Mandellav' timestamp='1331049190' post='2934619']
Still, if you are giving yourself credit for running that coalition, your notion that you "assumed" that ODN would tell the rest of CnG what was going on simply confirms the old adage regarding that word.
[/quote]

To be fair to Roq, it's a correct assumption that ODN and MK were responsible for keeping the rest of CnG in the loop in that regard. It's still perfectly fine to say you merged LOST, Athens, and GR to raise your stakes here on Bob, due to be looked over when that war was being planned.

Talking about all this does make it all the more shocking to see this treaty happen in just a year's time. Congrats to my allies in TLR for this monumental achievement, and good luck to NPO moving forward.

[Monster]

The other issue, Mandellav, is I can't literally talk to everyone. For example, Os was a major figure within the whole thing and in this last war we saw several issues because people didn't communicate. If links don't really talk to each other and there are only a few designated people, it'll never go from the "top" to wherever it needs to. Athens was also there, though I didn't know Londo didn't make sense to have in it(according to Rush).

I don't really have a problem with humility, but I can't talk to everyone, especially if they don't talk to me. I guess I should have talked more to each bloc involved, though they each had their reps.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Roquentin

[rsoxbronco1]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1331053655' post='2934638']
The other issue, Mandellav, is I can't literally talk to everyone.
[/quote]
But bless you, you still try.