A Message from TLR

[Wargarden]

[quote name='Amoshi' timestamp='1319771336' post='2833362']
This is great. Do I scare you that much that you're increasing your NS in an attempt to avoid conflict? Most government in alliances would be itching for the chance to take on a challenger, especially with three helpers. You're actually running away from a fight with a single person. Not even worth my time. disgust++;
[/quote]

Seriously?! You bug me for 5 days, I get ready to fight and you call me a coward? Running away? Seriously!? You expect me to sit a defcon 1, with only a handfull of defenses and just let you slam into me? After all your irritating me, you expect me to say, "sure, you have have the first shot for free...go on, take your best shot." No way. You've been an annoying child and now that its time you can't own up to your threats so you call me a coward. Nice. Now that you can't carry out your crazy plan, I'm not worth your time? Last five days it seems I was.

I give YOU the gift of Pop-culture:

[quote] Just walk away. [/quote]

Edited October 28, 2011 by Wargarden

[Wargarden]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1319786827' post='2833482']
What the hell are you people even talking about at this point.
[/quote]



You. I like. VE, set up an embassy at our forum.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1319803671' post='2833518']
If you were actually involved in the peace negotiations you'd realize that this isn't the case. Like, not at all. It's more of the case of Legion acting like stubborn children because OWF posters who say things without knowing what is going on (like you) make them feel all big and powerful.
[/quote]
[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=106320"]So who's speaking without knowing again?[/url]

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1319786827' post='2833482']
What the hell are you people even talking about at this point.
[/quote]

I agree, are you beginning to understand [b]Everything. Must. Die.[/b] yet?

[Heft]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1319816036' post='2833633']
[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=106320"]So who's speaking without knowing again?[/url]
[/quote]
1) No one surrendered.
2) Those aren't the negotiations they were talking about.

Also don't you have a treaty with Tetris? This is kind of a weird position for you to take.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1319820648' post='2833704']
1) No one surrendered.
2) Those aren't the negotiations they were talking about.

Also don't you have a treaty with Tetris? This is kind of a weird position for you to take.
[/quote]

Don't try to spin it, it's obvious they surrendered. Just because they're not paying reps does not make it any less true.

Also, what position?

[Heft]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1319821303' post='2833714']
Don't try to spin it, it's obvious they surrendered. Just because they're not paying reps does not make it any less true.

Also, what position?
[/quote]
That your allies are having surrender terms dictated to them and losing. It is odd because, if that were true, I would expect VE actually do something. Fortunately that's not true, so we don't have to open up that particular can of worms.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1319821836' post='2833719']
That your allies are having surrender terms dictated to them and losing. It is odd because, if that were true, I would expect VE actually do something. Fortunately that's not true, so we don't have to open up that particular can of worms.
[/quote]

Impero is representing us quite well to Legion in regards to Tetris.

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1319816036' post='2833633']
[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=106320"]So who's speaking without knowing again?[/url]
[/quote]
Completely different negotiations. Legion insists on surrender for NSO despite them entering the war on the same terms as NsO, IAA and BRA, and yet they refuse to offer the same peace terms. Hypocrisy at its finest.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1319825229' post='2833748']
Completely different negotiations. Legion insists on surrender for NSO despite them entering the war on the same terms as NsO, IAA and BRA, and yet they refuse to offer the same peace terms. Hypocrisy at its finest.
[/quote]
I know that CN has it's own definitions for things, but that isn't an example of actual hypocrisy.

[Lord Boris]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1319825229' post='2833748']
Completely different negotiations. Legion insists on surrender for NSO despite them entering the war on the same terms as NsO, IAA and BRA, and yet they refuse to offer the same peace terms. Hypocrisy at its finest.
[/quote]

Given the state of things between NSO and Legion for the last several months, I don't think you can spin that as hypocrisy. When discussing instruments of surrender, it's pretty normal to save the stronger punitive measures for the worst offenders. NsO, IAA, and BTA really had no standing issues with regards to the Legion before this (or at least nothing of substance) and didn't do as much in terms of damage. There would have been limited point in trying to push reps there, particularly with IAA apparently flying to pieces internally if the talk of the town is accurate. With NSO and Tetris, however, as the major instigators of a lot of the slugfest that they're undertaking, there is far more reason to not release them so easily. Seems perfectly normal to me, although this entire line of discussion really is better suited for other threads.

[Heft]

[quote name='Lord Boris' timestamp='1319827617' post='2833779']
Given the state of things between NSO and Legion for the last several months, I don't think you can spin that as hypocrisy. When discussing instruments of surrender, it's pretty normal to save the stronger punitive measures for the worst offenders. NsO, IAA, and BTA really had no standing issues with regards to the Legion before this (or at least nothing of substance) and didn't do as much in terms of damage. There would have been limited point in trying to push reps there, particularly with IAA apparently flying to pieces internally if the talk of the town is accurate. With NSO and Tetris, however, as the major instigators of a lot of the slugfest that they're undertaking, there is far more reason to not release them so easily. Seems perfectly normal to me, although this entire line of discussion really is better suited for other threads.
[/quote]
Besides, it's all irrelevant as Legion has failed to push the war hard enough for us to need to be "released."

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1319827800' post='2833787']
Besides, it's all irrelevant as Legion has failed to push the war hard enough for us to need to be "released."
[/quote]
Yeah... I don't see anyone from Legion complaining about the war not being over yet. Funny thing, that.

[Amoshu]

[quote name='Wargarden' timestamp='1319808894' post='2833547']
Seriously?! You bug me for 5 days, I get ready to fight and you call me a coward? Running away? Seriously!? You expect me to sit a defcon 1, with only a handfull of defenses and just let you slam into me? After all your irritating me, you expect me to say, "sure, you have have the first shot for free...go on, take your best shot." No way. You've been an annoying child and now that its time you can't own up to your threats so you call me a coward. Nice. Now that you can't carry out your crazy plan, I'm not worth your time? Last five days it seems I was.

I give YOU the gift of Pop-culture:
[/quote]
I'm actually okay with this. Take care cutie pie.

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1319820648' post='2833704']
2) Those aren't the negotiations they were talking about.
[/quote]

Lol, Jedi mind tricks from a Sith.

[Subcomandante VL]

Never change, peanut gallery.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Lukapaka' timestamp='1319795742' post='2833504']
If someone is actually committed to fighting someone they have issues with, there's no point in sending their friend to pick on their opponent's friend. All that does is create more tension, and Admin knows, we don't need any more tension. No, if someone is [i]actually committed [/i]to fighting, they should man up and throw a punch. I don't see the point for these theories on 'what side is losing more, with all these micro-wars', since it doesn't look like any makro-alliance is going to do anything more than just flap flap flap flap FLAP their jaws.
[/quote]
Micro-wars are very often what lead to major wars, except in situations like this where one side doesn't have the balls to defend their allies.

[quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1319797817' post='2833509']
You know when you should quit arguing? When you're strawmanning [i]Mogar[/i].
[/quote]
How is it a strawman? His position on NG's supposed "cowardice" is literally predicated on his own alliance's cowardice and refusal to defend an ally.

[Mogar]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1319835699' post='2833958']
Micro-wars are very often what lead to major wars, except in situations like this where one side doesn't have the balls to defend their allies.


How is it a strawman? His position on NG's supposed "cowardice" is literally predicated on his own alliance's cowardice and refusal to defend an ally.
[/quote]
why didn't NG declare while RIA had an MDP level treaty with them, answer me this.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1319839521' post='2834031']
why didn't NG declare while RIA had an MDP level treaty with them, answer me this.
[/quote]
I'm not NG and don't know. But I do know that if MK had an ODP partner that was attacked in this kind of war, we would be defending them.

[Micheal Malone]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1319839521' post='2834031']
why didn't NG declare while RIA had an MDP level treaty with them, answer me this.
[/quote]

"Guys, guys... look. I know we have a treaty that says we can defend our friends when they get attacked. But that's not my argument. Let's not focus on the fact that we didn't defend our friends in what would have been a justified defense. Let's focus on the fact that Non Grata attacked after we changed our treaty from FORCING us to defend. They're cowards!"

[Mogar]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1319840553' post='2834037']
I'm not NG and don't know. But I do know that if MK had an ODP partner that was attacked in this kind of war, we would be defending them.
[/quote]
Arrnea has basically been asking for this for quite some time, I'm pretty sure MK wouldn't throw themselves under the bus if an optional treaty partner was acting anywhere near Arrnea's level of stupidity.

[quote name='Micheal Malone' timestamp='1319841425' post='2834049']
"Guys, guys... look. I know we have a treaty that says we can defend our friends when they get attacked. But that's not my argument. Let's not focus on the fact that we didn't defend our friends in what would have been a justified defense. Let's focus on the fact that Non Grata attacked after we changed our treaty from FORCING us to defend. They're cowards!"
[/quote]
You still can't give me an answer of why you waited until our treaty was downgraded, can you? you can try to nitpick at my argument all day, but you don't seem to be able to give me an answer

[Micheal Malone]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1319843117' post='2834071']
You still can't give me an answer of why you waited until our treaty was downgraded, can you? you can try to nitpick at my argument all day, but you don't seem to be able to give me an answer
[/quote]
Nope, I sure can't. I'm not in gov, sadly. What I do know is that I am surprised that find upstanding gentlemen like yourself hold a treaty to defend a partner, yet seem to stress the Optional over the previous Mandatory. As I said, deflection at it's best I guess. Do I know why we didn't hit while it was Mandatory? Not for certain. Can I guess? Yup, and so can you.

Do I know that for someone who seems so concerned about their allies why you did not jump to their aid? Nope. Can I guess? Yup.

[img]http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh209/Knoxontholos/Demotivational%20Posters/FortitudeSave.jpg[/img]

[Mogar]

[quote name='Micheal Malone' timestamp='1319865869' post='2834293']
Nope, I sure can't. I'm not in gov, sadly. What I do know is that I am surprised that find upstanding gentlemen like yourself hold a treaty to defend a partner, yet seem to stress the Optional over the previous Mandatory. As I said, deflection at it's best I guess. Do I know why we didn't hit while it was Mandatory? Not for certain. Can I guess? Yup, and so can you.

Do I know that for someone who seems so concerned about their allies why you did not jump to their aid? Nope. Can I guess? Yup.
[/quote]
We downgraded specifically because of Arrnea's actions, and felt we should not be held accountable for his stupidity, now Mrryh on the other hand, or a number of other people in SOS, we'd have happily defended if they were the leader, I'm concerned for my friends in the alliance, and now they have peace, so even though they had to be beaten down for Arrnea's stupidity, they're able to recover and move forward now, and yes, your allies want to ZI RIA and every other alliance in SF, I'm sure everyone can guess why giving you blue balls is more entertaining.

[leongsh]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1319868287' post='2834311']
We downgraded specifically because of Arrnea's actions, and felt we should not be held accountable for his stupidity, now Mrryh on the other hand, or a number of other people in SOS, we'd have happily defended if they were the leader, I'm concerned for my friends in the alliance, and now they have peace, so even though they had to be beaten down for Arrnea's stupidity, they're able to recover and move forward now, and yes, your allies want to ZI RIA and every other alliance in SF, I'm sure everyone can guess why giving you blue balls is more entertaining.
[/quote]

Mogar, stop trying to call NG on only waiting to hit SOS after the downgrade when your explanation only shows RIA were eager to downgrade before anyone hit SOS and RIA was mandatorily called on to defend. You've just exposed RIA's cowardice and made Wargarden's senatorial post spot on. Thus, our/TLR apology should not have been made. RIA's whining to INT to influence them to call on TLR for the apology shows what a sham RIA has been in this matter.

[Mogar]

[quote name='leongsh' timestamp='1319873064' post='2834331']
Mogar, stop trying to call NG on only waiting to hit SOS after the downgrade when your explanation only shows RIA were eager to downgrade before anyone hit SOS and RIA was mandatorily called on to defend. You've just exposed RIA's cowardice and made Wargarden's senatorial post spot on. [u]Thus, our/TLR apology should not have been made. RIA's whining to INT to influence them to call on TLR for the apology shows what a sham RIA has been in this matter.[/u]
[/quote]
got any logs, or is this just more attempts at spin? You can pretend that SOS was hit completely arbitrarily and had nothing to do with the downgrade 2 days previously if you'd like, but I'm sure the rest of the world can figure out that you can't declare on anyone in SF, so you want one of us to make the first move, but hey, at least I find your attempts to hide your own cowardice cute.