UPN Statement

[Zoomzoomzoom]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1317327233' post='2812048']
UPN might be asking their allies to stay out, but that might not be the best thing for UPN or UPN's allies, unless UPN is being offered some light terms to end this quickly. If NpO is able to pull in all their MDoAP allies and blitz NG alongside them, it would put NG in a difficult position with whatever allies NG calls in to help causing more of NpO's allies treaties to go off bringing in more alliances to counter them, then with enough NS focused on NG they'll be taking heavy damage and maybe pull off a win or draw for UPN's side. The key would be having enough alliances all attack at once, so if NG's allies counter all of them heavily it will cause a lot more treaties to pull in more allies on NpO/UPN's side, making it a tough war of attrition for both sides.
[/quote]

Sounds pretty effective and I implore all parties to do it.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1317327233' post='2812048']
UPN might be asking their allies to stay out, but that might not be the best thing for UPN or UPN's allies, unless UPN is being offered some light terms to end this quickly. If NpO is able to pull in all their MDoAP allies and blitz NG alongside them, it would put NG in a difficult position with whatever allies NG calls in to help causing more of NpO's allies treaties to go off bringing in more alliances to counter them, then with enough NS focused on NG they'll be taking heavy damage and maybe pull off a win or draw for UPN's side. The key would be having enough alliances all attack at once, so if NG's allies counter all of them heavily it will cause a lot more treaties to pull in more allies on NpO/UPN's side, making it a tough war of attrition for both sides.
[/quote]


Yea because that strategy won last time against goons didn't it.

[spoofmaniac]

Best of luck to my friends and allies in UPN

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1317327560' post='2812057']
Yea because that strategy won last time against goons didn't it.
[/quote]
That plan sort of ignored Umbrella and MK, who were sending a lot of aid to GOONS throughout. With only one alliance leading the charge, it would work out better in a situation like this. It would still be a tough war, but NpO still has a good number of allies, with many of those having treaties with better connected alliances if they were to get counter attacked.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Methrage

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1317327797' post='2812062']
That plan sort of ignored Umbrella and MK, who were sending a lot of aid to GOONS throughout. With only one alliance leading the charge, it would work out better in a situation like this. It would still be a tough war, but NpO still has a good number of allies, with many of those having treaties with better connected alliances if they were to get counter attacked.
[/quote]


You really don't think UPN & Co would have any chance v PBs side and connections do you?

[The Warrior]

I'm sorry that you are having to deal with this mess Tecumseh. I still have mad respect for you. Best of luck resolving this situation!

Edited September 29, 2011 by The Warrior

[Dom Zak]

[quote name='The Warrior' timestamp='1317328003' post='2812065']
I'm sorry that you are having to deal with this mess Tecumseh. I still have mad respect for you sir.
[/quote]

agreed 100%. While I'm not really a fan of UPN, You sir will always be respected by myself and many other IRONers.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1317327921' post='2812064']
You really don't think UPN & Co would have any chance v PBs side and connections do you?
[/quote]
If NpO got all their allies on board who are MDP and up, then I do as long as those who share a common ally with NpO wouldn't mind defending a treaty partner who chooses to assist NpO in this war. TKTB is just one NpO ally who could bring in TIO, who could bring in MCXA and NPO, as well as quite a few other alliances. So it depends on who's willing to fight once the treaty chains start coming into play. If no one is willing to fight they can't win, but if those who would end up with treaty chains bringing them on the other side are willing to fight they could stand a chance.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Methrage

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1317328307' post='2812070']
If NpO got all their allies on board who are MDP and up, then I do as long as those who share a common ally with NpO wouldn't mind defending a treaty partner who chooses to assist NpO in this war. TKTB is just one NpO ally who could bring in TIO, who could bring in MCXA and NPO, as well as quite a few other alliances. So it depends on who's willing to fight once the treaty chains start coming into play. If no one is willing to fight they can't win, but if those who would end up with treaty chains bringing them on the other side are willing to fight they could stand a chance.
[/quote]


I beg to differ.

[Ashoka the Great]

Our only hope for expansion is to keep checking the aid screens and hope someone screws up, I guess.

Boo.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1317328476' post='2812074']
I beg to differ.
[/quote]
UPN and Co will never know until they try, if they don't try this will just turn out to be a display of weakness for UPN's side and they'll probably end up getting in a similar situation not to long down the line as it might be UPN next time needing to decide if they're going to defend NpO. Then with memories of no one coming to their aid causing them to do the same when their allies end up in a situation like this, making for more boring curb stomps with no allies showing up becoming the norm for the next few wars.

[LittleRena]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1317328307' post='2812070']
If NpO got all their allies on board who are MDP and up, then I do as long as those who share a common ally with NpO wouldn't mind defending a treaty partner who chooses to assist NpO in this war. TKTB is just one NpO ally who could bring in TIO, who could bring in MCXA and NPO, as well as quite a few other alliances. So it depends on who's willing to fight once the treaty chains start coming into play. If no one is willing to fight they can't win, but if those who would end up with treaty chains bringing them on the other side are willing to fight they could stand a chance.
[/quote]

Remember what happend during the PB-NpO war?

Also, NPO hold an ODP/NAP with DH

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1317328859' post='2812083']
Also, NPO hold an NAP with DH
[/quote]

Our favorite one!!!!!!!

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1317328859' post='2812083']
Remember what happend during the PB-NpO war?

Also, NPO hold an ODP/NAP with DH
[/quote]
NPO would obviously only get invovled if TIO or another of their allies were fighting, then got declared on by someone. I don't think NPO will get involved unless they have a treaty to bring them in, also unless NPO's allies who get involved only get countered by DH alliances, I don't think the ODP/NAP would really come into play as NPO would have stronger treaties to defend other allies. It takes someone willing to fight and try to win for a side to form around them, if they just pass up on any help and decide to be a punching bag until they get terms, they'll never know how big of a coalition they could of formed by fighting and giving it their all.

[Jens of the desert]

[quote name='TECUMSEH' timestamp='1317318908' post='2811879']
For those interested, I want to clarify the parameters of the on-going conflict with NG. UPN has received unconditional offers of support from its allies, and for that we are truly appreciative. However, this is UPN's problem stemming from a raid gone wrong. As such, UPN will deal with it on its own, and will not call on its allies to defend a bad raid. Period. We are in the process of attempting to resolve the issue with NG, and I have every expectation that a satisfactory outcome will be reached.

[b]On a personal note, this conflict is one that truly hurts. I have spent a great deal of time getting to know NG and have a genuine like for them [both IC and OoC]. There are, e.g., few players I respect more than Mike and Arexes. So, I'm extremely disappointed that this dispute wasn't properly resolved. I'm also a bit disappointed NG didn't allow a little more leeway on our part to resolve this issue short of conflict. I understand they were under no obligation to do so, but I would have hoped that our relationship might have earned us a bit more. This doesn't really change my opinion of NG, whom I still like, but it does, as I've said, sting.[/b]
[/quote]
"I love you so why won't you be my friend? "

[wickedj]

So, uh, Polar. What a pretty peace mode count you have for someone not coming to war

[mrwuss]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1317329174' post='2812090']
NPO would obviously only get invovled if TIO or another of their allies were fighting, then got declared on by someone. I don't think NPO will get involved unless they have a treaty to bring them in, also unless NPO's allies who get involved only get countered by DH alliances, I don't think the ODP/NAP would really come into play as NPO would have stronger treaties to defend other allies. It takes someone willing to fight and try to win for a side to form around them, if they just pass up on any help and decide to be a punching bag until they get terms, they'll never know how big of a coalition they could of formed by fighting and giving it their all.
[/quote]



They do know what will happen, it just recently went down.

Keep pushing and writing checks for other people while you will be no where to be found if they try and cash it. You need to take time away from the forums and come back when you are done being insane. (never come back)

[LittleRena]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1317329174' post='2812090']
if they just pass up on any help and decide to be a punching bag until they get terms, they'll never know how big of a coalition they could of formed by fighting and giving it their all.
[/quote]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this the way things went pre-karma in a way? One side would get attacked by the dominate alliances of the time.

I wasn't around much for the pre-karma era so I have no idea.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1317329574' post='2812094']
So, uh, Polar. What a pretty peace mode count you have for someone not coming to war
[/quote]

They may be anticipating that they will be attacked 'pre-emptively' for not declaring.

I know if I were them, I would be hedging some bets in case of that happening.

[mrwuss]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1317329713' post='2812099']
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this the way things went pre-karma in a way? One side would get attacked by the dominate alliances of the time.

I wasn't around much for the pre-karma era so I have no idea.
[/quote]

Except this isn't happening, UPN did this. NG didn't just decide they didn't like UPN this morning. UPN raided thier protectorate.

Stop trying to be Methrage Jr.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1317329713' post='2812099']
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this the way things went pre-karma in a way? One side would get attacked by the dominate alliances of the time.

I wasn't around much for the pre-karma era so I have no idea.
[/quote]
Although some alliances, such MK in the no-CB War gave it their all and brought allies willing to do the same when attacked, that earned them respect over alliances like GATO, GPA, etc who tried surrendering without fighting back. It was the popularity MK and CnG gained fighting back with a full nuclear war and not dodging their treaties even in a losing war that allowed them such an influential position once NPO's hegemony ended. MK lost that war and had to pay reps, but overall they won a lot more than they lost by showing they had the balls to fight.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Methrage

[LittleRena]

[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1317329890' post='2812103']
Except this isn't happening, UPN did this. NG didn't just decide they didn't like UPN this morning. UPN raided thier protectorate.

Stop trying to be Methrage Jr.
[/quote]

Calm down sir, I did say correct me if I am wrong.

At no point did I say UPN didn't do anything, I am fully aware of what has said and in another topic I said that I agreed with the action and didn't think it should go beyond 1v1.

I'm nothing like Methrage

Edited September 29, 2011 by LittleRena

[alyster]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1317329174' post='2812090']
NPO would obviously only get invovled if TIO or another of their allies were fighting, then got declared on by someone. I don't think NPO will get involved unless they have a treaty to bring them in, also unless NPO's allies who get involved only get countered by DH alliances, I don't think the ODP/NAP would really come into play as NPO would have stronger treaties to defend other allies. It takes someone willing to fight and try to win for a side to form around them, if they just pass up on any help and decide to be a punching bag until they get terms, they'll never know how big of a coalition they could of formed by fighting and giving it their all.
[/quote]

TIO and Polar didn't have the nicest parting few months ago. So now TIO is basically Pacifica's property and I doubt they'll make a move with out Pacifica's approval. Your little fantasy would sound more realistic if you'd try to elawyer NPO in with the Polar-STA-TPF-NPO link. But that's getting bit too long in linking.

Besides Polar's too scared to do anything. TOP's just waiting for them.

[RandomInterrupt]

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1317329740' post='2812100']
They may be anticipating that they will be attacked 'pre-emptively' for not declaring.

I know if I were them, I would be hedging some bets in case of that happening.
[/quote]
As I said in my post in this thread, we were and are prepared to assist the UPN in the way they see fit. Until we were informed of what they wanted, we prepared for all possible outcomes.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='alyster' timestamp='1317330188' post='2812106']
TIO and Polar didn't have the nicest parting few months ago. So now TIO is basically Pacifica's property and I doubt they'll make a move with out Pacifica's approval. Your little fantasy would sound more realistic if you'd try to elawyer NPO in with the Polar-STA-TPF-NPO link. But that's getting bit too long in linking.

Besides Polar's too scared to do anything. TOP's just waiting for them.
[/quote]
Fear of getting rolled stops to many wars from getting big and alliances allowing an ally to get rolled on their own. If NpO allows fear of TOP keep them from helping their treaty partners, that will just mean eventually TOP can declare directly on NpO without worrying about any of NpO's allies doing anything, once their allies have taken similar beat downs without calling on help to try benefiting their allies previously.

Also if TOP really is waiting to hit NpO, better to get the war out of the way than live in fear over it for an extended period of time. I really doubt TOP is type who will keep going for NpO over and over again after getting their payback, if their is a score to be settled still, might as well be done with it and move on. They're not the type to hold a grudge forever, even if they have reason to be angry with NpO over the BiPolar War. NpO has already taken one beating since then, so it wouldn't surprise me if TOP mostly considers it done with after that. Although if TOP does still want to roll NpO, I doubt they'll hold onto the grudge after one direct war with NpO.

For their part in the noCB War, NpO actually had a large amount of influence even after NPO's downfall up until the BiPolar War because they showed to hold Friends > Infra in the noCB War right alongside MK, CnG and whatever other allies NpO brought in to help. If NpO tried to dodge the noCB War by ignoring their treaty, they still would of got rolled later down the line, just without making any friends.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Methrage