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UPN Statement


TECUMSEH

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[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1317322798' post='2811971']
Would have to be done via aggression on a treaty, since UPN is the aggressors in this mess. No defensive !@#$%^&* is going to cut it here, no spinning it either.
[/quote]

But it someone else was to attack UPN in defense of NG, then the defense clauses of UPN treaties would come into play, so its NG asking its allies to stay out that is stopping this from escalating. All blueballs should be blaming them.

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[quote name='ShouAS' timestamp='1317323727' post='2811994']
But it someone else was to attack UPN in defense of NG, then the defense clauses of UPN treaties would come into play, so its NG asking its allies to stay out that is stopping this from escalating. All blueballs should be blaming them.
[/quote]

NG don't need help, why would they activate anything?

UPN on the other hand is being demolished.

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[quote name='Caustic' timestamp='1317323492' post='2811988']
stop... just stop
[/quote]

He may not always express himself in the best way, but I do think he has a point. UPN screwed up here, but they still have choices left and some will be better than others.

If they actually manage to hold together and put up a decent fight for however long the negotiations take, do you really think that wouldnt earn them a bit more respect than they get at the moment? And vice-versa, if they dont do this, wouldnt that just confirm everyones worst opinions of them and have the opposite effect?

UPN has been one of the 'sick men' of the cyberverse for some time now, call me an old softy, but I do tend to want to see the best in everyone, and if this unfortunate incident results in UPN getting its act together, the cost in infra and tech they will pay will be an excellent investment for them, rather than simply a tragic loss.

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[quote name='TECUMSEH' timestamp='1317318908' post='2811879']
For those interested, I want to clarify the parameters of the on-going conflict with NG. UPN has received unconditional offers of support from its allies, and for that we are truly appreciative. However, this is UPN's problem stemming from a raid gone wrong. As such, UPN will deal with it on its own, and will not call on its allies to defend a bad raid. Period. We are in the process of attempting to resolve the issue with NG, and I have every expectation that a satisfactory outcome will be reached.[/quote]

Well, my theory that Dobs2504, the UPN MoD, was trying to rectify the balance between UPN's infra to tech ratio gets thrown right out the door. And I was going to commend him for his willingness to make the hard decision and force the correction upon his alliance-mates that are overly attracted to infrastructure. Although the loss of 200k infrastructure would not even be enough to right the scales as the alliance tech totals would have been diminished as well by that point and the ever elusive 2:1 ratio would still be out of reach. (2:1 ratio being the most realistic option for an alliance that recruits new nations.)

The choice of Non Grata was excellent for an infrastructure removal plan, so you can see how I was mislead by my pet theory. It is hard to be an ally of Polaris and not be ready to roll or be rolled at a moments notice. I tip my hat to TOP for playing their cards well ever since BiPolar War.

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[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1317320899' post='2811941']
Their lack of testicles.
[/quote]

Clearly, this is the answer.


[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1317323485' post='2811987']
What happend in those days for those of us who wheren't around.
[/quote]

Basically this. Finding excuses to curbstomp other alliances. Only difference here is that NG did not have several friends DoW UPN together.

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[quote name='danizduhman' timestamp='1317324711' post='2812009']
Basically this. Finding excuses to curbstomp other alliances. Only difference here is that NG did not have several friends DoW UPN together.
[/quote]

I dont remember Q ever waiting for a legitimate CB before attacking.

I will give you there is a resemblance when it comes to issuing ultimatums and calling it negotiation, but that is relatively minor in comparison.

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[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1317323182' post='2811979']
So what I get from this thread is that NpO wont back its ally, most likely because they don't want tanked by half of CN and UPN are as equally incompetent without Peggysue. At least you recognise you have a completely inept government, especially your MoD, that's progress.
[/quote]
As your fellow GOON pointed out, Polar is not backing it's ally's aggressive action. They aren't required to do that.

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[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' timestamp='1317324981' post='2812015']
As your fellow GOON pointed out, Polar is not backing it's ally's aggressive action. They aren't required to do that.
[/quote]

Don't lump Hiro in with the rest of us, he's our Methrage.

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[quote name='Caustic' timestamp='1317323492' post='2811988']
stop... just stop
[/quote]
A quote I like is "Cowards die many times before their deaths. The valiant never taste of death but once.", they're not defeated until they say they are defeated, if they accept terms without putting up a fight first, they'll just see more of this type of treatment towards their alliance when they slip up and the attitude that caused them to be dealt with the way they were only strengthened. If NG doesn't bring in allies, I can understand UPN not bringing in their allies, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't fight with their full abilities while the war is ongoing to prove they can fight well if needed and maybe even earn some respect from their enemies. I remember in the DH-NPO War, most of UPN's enemies were disappointed with UPN's fighting abilities and made it known to OWF, if UPN can fight well now would be the time to prove it and try redeeming themselves by putting up a good fight. Maybe if they fight well they'll even earn some respect from their opponents on the battefield, I think the PR gained from fighting well would far outweigh whatever infra/tech they'll preserve by attempting to avoid fighting back as they negotiate a surrender.

Put up a good fight is all I'm saying, if they're able to prove they're good warriors on their own without bringing any allies in, even better for them.

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[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' timestamp='1317324981' post='2812015']
As your fellow GOON pointed out, Polar is not backing it's ally's aggressive action. They aren't required to do that.
[/quote]


Of coarse they are not fighting because of it's allies aggressive actions. I think it has more to do with the hammering they would receive themselves than anything. They said they would back their allies already, so obviously they don't view UPN's actions are aggressive or they just don't care.

Also mrwuss you genuinely offend me with that,I do not always end up getting hammered and paying 90 million. Plus I only talk 90% !@#$e, whereas he speaks 100% !@#$.

I should elaborate on your response, They arent fighting because they deem this action as aggressive, they are not fighting because they will have discussed the outcome over with UPN and realised that they would most likely get smashed and UPN don't want that to happen. So playing it off as they don't want to back their allies aggressive stance is !@#$%^&*.

Edited by Hiro Nakara
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[quote name='darkfox' timestamp='1317326490' post='2812039']
Yo Dawg, I really like your announcement but Europa had the best Leave our allies out of this [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=96114&st=0"]announcement[/url]of all time!
[/quote]
Your existence should be put to an end.

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UPN might be asking their allies to stay out, but that might not be the best thing for UPN or UPN's allies, unless UPN is being offered some light terms to end this quickly. If NpO is able to pull in all their MDoAP allies and blitz NG alongside them, it would put NG in a difficult position with whatever allies NG calls in to help causing more of NpO's allies treaties to go off bringing in more alliances to counter them, then with enough NS focused on NG they'll be taking heavy damage and maybe pull off a win or draw for UPN's side. The key would be having enough alliances all attack at once, so if NG's allies counter all of them heavily it will cause a lot more treaties to pull in more allies on NpO/UPN's side, making it a tough war of attrition for both sides.

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