Proxian Empire Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 I am not impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Llanowar Elf' timestamp='1317270038' post='2810906'] He raided a TWO MAN AA, that had absolutely no mention of a protectorate or any other agreement in there Bio's. He did 3 million worth of damage, they offered 6 million in response. So, lets see the figure you used to justify asking for 30mil? [/quote] What was or was not in their bios is irrelevant. Any responsible Minister of Defense would [url=http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Venomous_Larvae]research his target[/url] [url=http://www.non-grata.net/index.php?act=idx]in all[/url] [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=102670]available mediums[/url] to determine whether or not the target was protected. Edited September 29, 2011 by Emperor Marx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janax Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Llanowar Elf' timestamp='1317270038' post='2810906'] He raided a TWO MAN AA, that had absolutely no mention of a protectorate or any other agreement in there Bio's. He did 3 million worth of damage, they offered 6 million in response. So, lets see the figure you used to justify asking for 30mil? [/quote] Bios are not the only method. Seems like that AA is on the NG wiki. That sounds like a better place to check. This is not a valid excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1317270424' post='2810938'] Actually they counter-offered and you responded to their attempt at negotiations with war. Dredging up the actions of a single alliance to make political points in the present is not educational exercise. [/quote] keep at it you've nearly saved the united purple nations from destruction [quote name='King Penchuk' timestamp='1317270436' post='2810939'] I am not impressed. [/quote] hi king penchuk nobody cares about you not even in polar feels bad Edited September 29, 2011 by Voytek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) double post Edited September 29, 2011 by Voytek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raken Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1317270481' post='2810943'] keep at it you've nearly saved the united purple nations from destruction [/quote] Words are all Polar needs to defend UPN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Greenberg Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) Great. This will be even more of an uneven war with NPO/everyone except Polar going to the other side. I'm suprised something happened in CN other then a treaty signed by two alliances no one cares about though... Edited September 29, 2011 by Ryan Greenberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Raken' timestamp='1317270553' post='2810946'] Words are all Polar needs to defend UPN. [/quote] well it's all they're going to get regardless of whether it's all they need Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Maximus Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 While I don't exactly agree with the 30m figure it is up to the offended party to determine the amount needed to rectify the situation. NG had the right to demand 30m, hell they could have asked for more if it so suited them. I'm not condoning the extortion, just saying I believe they have the right to demand what they feel is necessary. [quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1317270395' post='2810936'] If NpO doesn't like it, then they should do something about it. [/quote] You're above comments like this Hal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthey Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='janax' timestamp='1317269191' post='2810859'] If you are concerned about it, don't you have a shiny MDoAP you can invoke? I think you do. [/quote] Don't say that he'll realize this is a PB conspiracy to pull polar into a war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1317270019' post='2810904'] We contacted them as soon as we saw the attack. 3 days of attacks by their MoD on one, 1 day on the other. If it was a regular member we would have said fair enough, he screwed up. 15m damages. It was their Minister of Defense. I don't know about you, but by a gov member attacking, it may as well have been a gov sanctioned attack, therefore we decided to charge 30m. It was declined, therefore we militarised our forces. [/quote] Okay, given that, and the fact that I just looked up UPNs MoD, who is apparently almost 30k NS, I find 30mil in damages to be perfectly reasonable and appropriate. To be in his range, each of these nations probably had about 4k infra. 4 days total worth of attacks means losing 40 tech and 160 infra, before accounting for tech boosting. Figuring that at 160 total infra lost is ~10mil in damage by itself. Add in the 40 tech and you have 13mil (these days more and more sellers want 3mil per 50 rather than per 100). Add on any money stolen, soldiers killed, etc, bring it up to an even 15mil. Now add in lost money from collecting at a lower infra level/not being able to buy the level of infra planned/not being able to improve swap properly, and that can really easily add up to the other 15mil. Even if it doesn't, whatever isn't covered being a surcharge for a member of your upper government attacking your protectorate is pretty much in line. Either way a 6mil offer is a slap in the face. 6mil +50 tech to each victim may have been acceptable, but still lowballing. Just meeting the offer of 30mil would have been acceptable. But trying to brush off the damages as "only 3mil worth of damages" because the nations don't have 10k infra is laughable. You hurt two protected nations, you pay for it or you find out why they have a protectorate agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalasin Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='RandomInterrupt' timestamp='1317268542' post='2810815'] Extortion never goes out of style. [/quote] So you'll be offering UPN military assistance then will you? I didn't think so. It'll be the same gig as when R&R hit UINE.. you'll offer them support on the OWF which costs you nothing and then UPN will make an announcement where they request you stay out of it. Put your money where your mouth is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwood1 Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Where's Grubby.....I miss him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llanowar Elf Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='janax' timestamp='1317270458' post='2810942'] Bios are not the only method. Seems like that AA is on the NG wiki. That sounds like a better place to check. This is not a valid excuse. [/quote] It may be on NG's wiki, but where is there own AA's wiki? How is someone supposed to automatically know that there is an agreement out there, when there is no official wiki for the AA in question? Are they supposed to go through every single thread in the OWF? There MoD, checked to see if there was a wiki. There was none. He then checked there bios, nothing. What more does one do? Pm the nation asking if it is ok for them to be tech raided? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owney OSullivan Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Woooo war! Escalate this please! Get you some, NG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Derwood1' timestamp='1317270752' post='2810957'] Where's Grubby.....I miss him [/quote] perhaps our evaluations of random's antagonism were unjustified.. he's a big softy at heart :> [quote name='Llanowar Elf' timestamp='1317270761' post='2810958'] It may be on NG's wiki, but where is there own AA's wiki? How is someone supposed to automatically know that there is an agreement out there, when there is no official wiki for the AA in question? Are they supposed to go through every single thread in the OWF? There MoD, checked to see if there was a wiki. There was none. He then checked there bios, nothing. What more does one do? Pm the nation asking if it is ok for them to be tech raided? [/quote] this post so good in light of bipolar Edited September 29, 2011 by Voytek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Fool Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1317270358' post='2810933'] "It'd have been fine if they'd struck right off the bat, but they used diplomacy and that's bad."I admire the tenacity with which you defend your allies, but you've got nothing to work with here. [/quote]This isn't about NG being omg offended and morally outraged by UPN's actions. This is about NG using UPN's mistake as an opportunity to demean them for the sake of it. UPN refused and attempted to solve the issue via diplomatic means. NG disliked being negotiated with and declared. I have a solid case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brehon Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Here is the thing for all you soap box warriors. First remove the alliance names and look at the situation. Alliance A hit a known protectorate of Alliance B. Alliance B holds Accountable. Alliance A doesn't like the terms given by Alliance B for this. Alliance B declares wars. What exactly is wrong here? Numbers? Are you kidding me? In 2011 CN history an alliance was attacked as a pre-empt or what have you and the world watched them pay in nation strength and 2.47b in reps. So how about all of you saying Alliance B is wrong get the hell off your soap box. Alliance B followed the steps CN has claimed all alliances need to take and now because some of you don't agree its not okay. I am sick to death of the double standard bs. If people don't like it, nut up or shut up. If there is such an injustice, make a side accountable in the only way you can (and that doesn't mean words). Hypocrites and criers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proxian Empire Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 I am becoming tired of the arguments. I would be happier with a simple "we are attacking you to have war with NpO". At least it would be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) Godspeed, NG. In related news, the countdown to Polaris officially deciding to wuss out has begun. Edited September 29, 2011 by Crymson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacapo Saladin Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Llanowar Elf' timestamp='1317270761' post='2810958'] It may be on NG's wiki, but where is there own AA's wiki? How is someone supposed to automatically know that there is an agreement out there, when there is no official wiki for the AA in question? Are they supposed to go through every single thread in the OWF? There MoD, checked to see if there was a wiki. There was none. He then checked there bios, nothing. What more does one do? Pm the nation asking if it is ok for them to be tech raided? [/quote] Searching Venomous Larvae on cn wiki gives you the NG page as a result, one of three results. Not brain surgery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Derwood1' timestamp='1317270752' post='2810957'] Where's Grubby.....I miss him [/quote] He's busy trying to rectify the problem about crappy prizes for bingo winners in the retirement home. He'll come around eventually. Edited September 29, 2011 by Emperor Marx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalasin Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='King Penchuk' timestamp='1317270893' post='2810965'] I am becoming tired of the arguments. I would be happier with a simple "we are attacking you to have war with NpO". At least it would be honest. [/quote] That has become the standard argument for an ally who doesn't want to be bothered defending one of their satellites. It's as poor an argument now as it was when TPF was hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schad Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Llanowar Elf' timestamp='1317270761' post='2810958'] It may be on NG's wiki, but where is there own AA's wiki? How is someone supposed to automatically know that there is an agreement out there, when there is no official wiki for the AA in question? Are they supposed to go through every single thread in the OWF? There MoD, checked to see if there was a wiki. There was none. He then checked there bios, nothing. What more does one do? Pm the nation asking if it is ok for them to be tech raided? [/quote] That the Venomous Larvae wiki redirects to that of Poison Clan, where they're listed as a protectorate, should've been some indication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brehon Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Also, its an Military Officers JOB and DUTY to know who they are hitting when. So really, don't take someones inability to properly know their targets as them becoming a victim. Accountability for crying out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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