172,800,000 seconds of Cyber Nations

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1315440354' post='2796561']
I don't know, it's actually quite fun to achieve what others find too much effort or not worth it.[/quote]

I like the attitude. More people should have it.

[deth2munkies]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1315445565' post='2796590']
I like the attitude. More people should have it.
[/quote]
It's definitely good advice and what I'd tell any new player.

I remember when I first started I was really ambitious, posted everywhere about everything, kicked the leaders to do the cool stuff they were telling me about, learned how to do IRC, and got in the FA training program over at LoSS.

The first election after I joined I made the council, and won several follow up campaigns without really trying (incumbents had it good). Was quite a fun start off to the experience, even in an alliance still under surrender terms.

You get about as much as you put into it from this game, just like everything else in life.

[jerdge]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1315427336' post='2796459'][quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1315405457' post='2796310']It's also nice to see you're still around, also because you make me feel "young" (I remember you at the head of IRON FA back in the day when I was a newbie, and I am not [i]really[/i] new to the game...)[/quote]
That Medal of Friendship from you to Shan/IRON is still one of the greatest OWF moments of all time in my book. [/quote]
It was the "AHEAD Genuine Friend Award", [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=23725"]from AHEAD to IRON[/url]. Our decision to award them was absolutely sincere and we hadn't any hidden purpose, but unfortunately our relations had gone bad in the short time (4 days) between AHEAD's internal decision and the public announcement, thus things went South quickly.
I don't think I actually handled it [i]that[/i] bad but I think I could have done it better, and still today I'm unhappy of how that awarding ended. I wish I could go back and recover the relationship and I ask myself what I could have done to manage the situation in a better way.

AHEAD was a small alliance and we had put a lot of effort in have our Awards worked out; our link with IRON had also been really great and it was sad that it had to end in that way. But alas, it was [i]May 2008[/i], I should and I can live with it, now.

Just for memories, and because the graphics were incredibly good (and, unfortunately, too little used), here is the complete set. The artist but for the AHEAD flag (which I did) is Antonio Salovega VI, sadly gone from this game.

[spoiler][center][IMG]http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd295/jerdge/AHEAD/AHEAD-flag-279x149.png[/IMG]

[SIZE=4][color=orange][b]AHEAD Awards[/b][/color][/SIZE]

[b]Motivations[/b]
Each AHEAD award is assigned with a motivation, that must be related to identifiable events, and can be made public.

[b]Right of exhibition[/b]
Each entity that has been awarded AHEAD decorations has the perpetual right to exhibit them.

[b]AHEAD Gold Medal of Humanity[/b]
[IMG]http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd295/jerdge/AHEAD/Awards/AS6aheadAGMH.jpg[/IMG]
The AHEAD Gold Medal of Humanity (AGMH) is the highest AHEAD award. It is assigned to Nations that demonstrated outstanding dedication to the cause of Civilization, and that achieved impressive, unprecedented success towards the Global Evolution.
Both AHEAD and foreign Nations can be awarded this Medal, and any Nation can be assigned it only once.

[b]Silver Medal of Humanity[/b]
[IMG]http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd295/jerdge/AHEAD/Awards/AS6aheadSMH.jpg[/IMG]
The Silver Medal of Humanity (SMH) is the second-in-rank AHEAD Medal. It is given to Nations or Alliances that demonstrated enduring dedication to the cause of Civilization, and/or obtained excellent results on the path towards a complete Global Evolution.
Both AHEAD and foreign Nations or Alliances can be awarded this Medal, and any Nation or Alliance can be assigned it more than one time.
Whatever the circumstances, AHEAD Member Nations that, for humanitarian reasons, refuse to use Nuclear Weapons when they would have the right to do so under this Constitution's law, will be considered to epitomize the AHEAD spirit and rationale; thus, they will be automatically awarded the Silver Medal of Humanity.

[b]Gold Medal of Peace[/b]
[IMG]http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd295/jerdge/AHEAD/Awards/AS6aheadGMP.jpg[/IMG]
The Gold Medal of Peace (GMP) is the highest AHEAD Peace Medal. It can be assigned to Nations that demonstrated continuous dedication to, and obtained stunning achievements in favour of, the cause of Global Peace.
Both AHEAD and foreign Nations can be awarded this Medal, and any Nation can be assigned it only once.

[b]Silver Medal of Peace[/b]
[IMG]http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd295/jerdge/AHEAD/Awards/AS6aheadSMP.jpg[/IMG]
The Silver Medal of Peace (SMP) is the second-in-rank AHEAD Peace Medal. It is assigned to Nations or Alliances that actively and continuously worked for Peace, and that obtained significant results towards it.
Both AHEAD and foreign Nations and Alliance can be awarded this Medal, and any Nation or Alliance can be assigned it more than one time.

[b]AHEAD Genuine Friend Award[/b]
[IMG]http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd295/jerdge/AHEAD/Awards/AS6aheadAGFA.jpg[/IMG]
The AHEAD Genuine Friend Award (AGFA) is given to Nations or Alliances that demonstrated real friendship towards AHEAD.
This award can be assigned more than one time to the same Nation or Alliance.

[b]Gold Medal of Valour[/b]
[IMG]http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd295/jerdge/AHEAD/Awards/AS6aheadGMV.jpg[/IMG]
The Gold Medal of Valour (GMV) is the highest AHEAD Military Medal that can be assigned. It is assigned to AHEAD Nations that decisively and positively contributed in determining the result of an AHEAD-wide military conflict.
The Medal can be assigned more than one time to the same Nation.

[b]Silver Medal of Valour[/b]
[IMG]http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd295/jerdge/AHEAD/Awards/AS6aheadSMV.jpg[/IMG]
The Silver Medal of Valour (SMV) is the second-in-rank AHEAD Military Medal. It is given to Nations or Alliances that showed courage and bravery in defence of AHEAD.
Both AHEAD Nations, and foreign allied Nations or Alliances, can be awarded this Medal; the Medal can be assigned more than one time to the same Nation or Alliance.

[b]The Veteran Medal of Valour[/b]
[IMG]http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd295/jerdge/AHEAD/Awards/AS6aheadVMV.jpg[/IMG]
The Veteran Medal of Valour (VMV) is assigned to AHEAD Nations that fought three (or more) Alliance-wide conflicts on the AHEAD's side, effectively contributing to its defence.

[b]The Medal of Valour[/b]
[IMG]http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd295/jerdge/AHEAD/Awards/AS6aheadMV.jpg[/IMG]
The Medal of Valour (MV) is assigned to AHEAD Nations that fought in at least one war on the AHEAD's side, effectively contributing to its defence.

[b]The Maedolan Cross[/b]
[IMG]http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd295/jerdge/AHEAD/Awards/AS6aheadMC.jpg[/IMG]
The Maedolan Cross (MC) is assigned to AHEAD Nations that fought in defence of AHEAD, or of an AHEAD Ally, in at least one war.
This award takes name from the Capital city of Gaela, home city of jerdge, first founder of AHEAD.

[b]The AHEAD Rare Diplomacy Golden Kudos[/b]
[IMG]http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd295/jerdge/AHEAD/Awards/AS6aheadARDGK.jpg[/IMG]
The AHEAD Rare Diplomacy Golden Kudos (ARDGK) is assigned to AHEAD Nations that achieved decisive diplomatic success at AHEAD's advantage. It can be assigned more than one time to the same Nation.

[b]The AHEAD Diplomatic Recognition[/b]
[IMG]http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd295/jerdge/AHEAD/Awards/AS6aheadADR.jpg[/IMG]
The AHEAD Diplomatic Recognition (ADR) is assigned to AHEAD Nations that, while serving in the AHEAD Diplomatic Corp, were able to hold positive and profitable relations with the foreign entities they were appointed at.

[b]Other awards[/b]
The Parliament can create and assign other awards, that can be assigned both to domestic or foreign entities. The Parliament should however avoid creating awards that duplicate the Constitutional ones.[/center]

[i](If the descriptions make you smile, know that they have the same effect on me. )[/i][/spoiler]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1315430693' post='2796484']In my experience, if you are active, available on IRC, engage in conversation with leadership, and volunteer for stuff and actually finish what you start, you advance, if for no other reason but you are viewed as reliable. That might not get you to the top of the alliance, but it will put you into a position to advance into senior leadership at least by attrition if nothing else.

I will grant you however that there are some alliances where the top spots are locked up pretty much permanently and there exists a "glass ceiling" of sorts. My advice to anyone in that situation is either be content with being part of the team or go seek out an alliance that doesn't have a glass ceiling and work on advancing there.[/quote]
I'll add that getting at the top of an alliance, even a big one, doesn't mean to get to the top of CN politics. It takes a long way to gain the influence and notoriety of people like (off the top of my head and in random order) AirMe, Doitzel, Schattenmann, Impero, Moo, Grub, Zog, Sponge, Roq, Janova... Or even "just" that of a ChairmanHal.
Unless you can name more than maybe 1-2 <2 years old characters which are top ten among the most influential CN politicians of today... I couldn't name [i]any[/i], but admittedly I am not much in the loop.

[R3nowned]

2008 nation represent

I think the reason why 2008 players have such a high retention rate was cause of the lead up to the Karma war, which basically got us sucked into the politics of the game right away.

I think we'll see that with 2011 players as well.

[Sephiroth]

[quote]How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb[/quote]
Sounds like a good philosophy when playing, to just enjoy the game for what it is and not worry so much.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1315404868' post='2796304']
Assuming you want a full set of wonders, and buy a wonder every month, it takes 31 months to pull that off. Logically, you aren't going to be able to buy a wonder the first couple months in the game (oh you can if you get pumped with money, but that's not typical) and there are going to be a few months here and there you may not be able to buy a wonder or are delayed in buying a wonder due to circumstance (recovering from war, not enough cash to buy on the "wonder day", you forget and let a couple extra weeks slip by, etc.). A good estimate on when you should have a full set therefore is three years into the game.

We can argue back and forth what constitutes an "elite" category nation. Does it take 31 wonders? No. 24? Perhaps. If you are looking at strictly military power, then you can probably get by with even fewer, with the purchase of the WRC being the mark of an elite military nation. So realistically you are looking at 18-20 months to gain elite status. I have no idea how long it takes to get to have an "elite" character in WoW or an elite nation/colony/empire/organization in other browser based games either (though LW was similar), but it would be interesting to find comparable games to CN and do an "apples to apples" comparison to see if it takes longer in CN to get to an elite level, a shorter period, or if CN is somewhere in the middle. My sense is that CN is in the latter category.
[/quote]
I have 28 wonders; the other three I'm missing are the ones that you need to have a lot of infra for, and I've never bothered to go that high (I did go to 11K to get my UHC though). A nation with only fifteen or so wonders is going to get blitzed by me; it's happened before.

Remember there are two kinds of military wonder; there's the ones that people refer to as milwonders because they're purely military (MP, WRC, SDI, etc.) and there's the population-boosting wonders, which are generally viewed as economic but of course also provide military benefits because they mean you've got more soldiers. Because of growth land, ADP, and citizens in space, at ZI I have a little over 5K citizens (I don't know exactly because I've never been there), which means that as soon as I get knocked down not only are the nations I'm fighting facing an uphill battle in terms of tech (tho not as much as when I had 7K) but they're also getting clobbered by much more soldiers (because I will have full mil improvements and they won't have enough improvement slots to be able to compete with me, on top of my unremovable population).

[Charles Stuart]

If only I hadn't rerolled so much...

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1315485272' post='2796789']
I have 28 wonders; the other three I'm missing are the ones that you need to have a lot of infra for, and I've never bothered to go that high (I did go to 11K to get my UHC though). A nation with only fifteen or so wonders is going to get blitzed by me; it's happened before.

Remember there are two kinds of military wonder; there's the ones that people refer to as milwonders because they're purely military (MP, WRC, SDI, etc.) and there's the population-boosting wonders, which are generally viewed as economic but of course also provide military benefits because they mean you've got more soldiers. Because of growth land, ADP, and citizens in space, at ZI I have a little over 5K citizens (I don't know exactly because I've never been there), which means that as soon as I get knocked down not only are the nations I'm fighting facing an uphill battle in terms of tech (tho not as much as when I had 7K) but they're also getting clobbered by much more soldiers (because I will have full mil improvements and they won't have enough improvement slots to be able to compete with me, on top of my unremovable population).
[/quote]

Actually the moment your Moon/Mars colony goes away, so does a good chunk of the extra population you initially stored when your infra was higher (granted it takes a while). I tend to break wonders down according to categories, though mine are military tract (Pentagon, FAFB, etc.), nuke tract (MP, SDI, etc.), and economic tract (GT, Internet, etc.), though I understand how each sort of interacts with the others as you suggest.

The Methrages of the world (low NS for all the stuff they have) do tend to be able to beat up similar NS nations like a 6th grader in a kindergarten class, but ideally at the alliance level you develop a few nations that concentrate heavily on the nuke tract that are available to knock down such people, burn up their tech and cause them to run through their cash on hand much quicker and drive them to bill lock. This tactic takes a while, particularly when a well prepared nuke rogue is involved, but the situation isn't necessarily as hopeless as it might initially appear.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1315494935' post='2796847']
Actually the moment your Moon/Mars colony goes away, so does a good chunk of the extra population you initially stored when your infra was higher (granted it takes a while). I tend to break wonders down according to categories, though mine are military tract (Pentagon, FAFB, etc.), nuke tract (MP, SDI, etc.), and economic tract (GT, Internet, etc.), though I understand how each sort of interacts with the others as you suggest.
[/quote]
I rebought my colony earlier this year, so it's going to be a loooong time before it goes away.

But I was also thinking of stuff like DRA, NRL, ADP and so on, which are normally categorized as ecowonders because they boost pop - and also therefore soldiers.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1315494935' post='2796847']
but ideally at the alliance level you develop a few nations that concentrate heavily on the nuke tract that are available to knock down such people, burn up their tech and cause them to run through their cash on hand much quicker and drive them to bill lock.[/quote]

Dont forget the Systemfailures and the Daedric Banrae's of the world, who deliberately stay at low NS with their old formerly High NS nations, waiting for rogue to fall into their range. At least till such time as their alliance gov can cuss them out enough and they start growing their nations again.

[Xiphosis]

2.88%-er what what.

[dvdcchn]

Congrats on your Milestone, to sticking around o/

[Innerspeaker]

2006 Q4 nation reporting in. I was the 31,718th nation created and I now stand as the 333rd oldest nation left in existence.

Nice op.

[Brehon]

I am not sure what is worse, that you put up a rent quote Kubla or that I knew it was a rent quote?

Makes me wish I kept my first nation (or one of the other 3 before this one)... would be interesting. March 06. GC - OBR - NPO

Such a strange route isn't it?

Edited September 10, 2011 by Brehon

[Midas]

Wow. Very amazing to see these stats! Thanks for putting them together and I am right there with you in that .51% mark! (Feb 06) Amazing to see just how few of us there are left.

[philp110]

Sup Shan? Took my first nuke ever from you long, long, long ago. And nuked you back! Good times, good times.

Also, congrats on 2000 days! I can't believe I am a year and a half behind you and I'm still old!

[Sephiroth]

In my 1,467 days I've been here, I've fought nations from NPO, VE, IRON, Fark, CSN, GO, FOK, Gremlins, FAN, \m/, GOONS, Tetris, MK, ODN, Non Grata and probably more that I'm forgetting. The only one I regret fighting somewhat was Gremlins, as regardless of whether I disagreed with them continuing their war with IRON/DAWN/TORN at the time, I shouldn't of attacked a former member of The Citadel even if Ramirus was a horrible leader. The rest either attacked me or I had a pretty good reason to fight them.

Edited September 13, 2011 by Methrage

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

Q1 of 2006. How I wish I still had that nation. With all the rerolls, there's probably a bit more of us than the numbers show.

As far as steep progression goes, it perhaps could be an idea to give bigger boosts to smaller nations so they can grow faster. Another idea could be to bring the wonder buying from 30 to 15 days. Assuming one has a very tight economic setup, nations could become elite twice as fast. Double that with bigger growth in the early stages and you got a game that is more entertaining for everyone. However, that's just me thinking as I'm typing.

Thanks for staying around.

[WorldConqueror]

RIP MotherRussia, #89394 ;_;

[Shan Revan]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1315401237' post='2796289']
Don't you mean "love the Bob"?
[/quote]
Yes. I am sorry for the grievous error on my part.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1315427336' post='2796459']
Hey Shan, seen you around lately, but you took your hiatus seriously; I thought you had re-rolled not just taken a break.

Maybe the Pax Pacifica is responsible for retention. The vast majority of alliances--in an age where AAs were in the 600-1200-member range--were all on top of things, and while there was lots of war, most aligned nations would have been insulated from the spirit-dampening effects of all that war (victory, and the physical limitations of slots keeping them from going to war even during a war). By contrast, new nations in 2009 and 2010 when all those AAs would have got the opposite, followed by reps preventing their AAs from supporting them (retaining them) post-war. The 2008ers that were exposed to the same power-shift would have a higher retnetnion rate because they've invested more of their time into it, they've seen that things can get better, and their nations would have been better prepared to last. The alliances that destroyed the Pax Pacifica are not the sorts of mass-recruiters and nation-retainers that the old guard were, so there's less of that going on overall.

(sorry, not my most eloquent work, but I'm in the last 30 mins of work)


That Medal of Friendship from you to Shan/IRON is still one of the greatest OWF moments of all time in my book.
[/quote]
I have considered something like this myself, but I decided against mentioning it due to my hegemonic history and not desiring to stir !@#$ up. However in addition to that, modern warfare is a lot more drawn out and punishing for the losers than it ever was in modern times, even if terms have in some cases been reduced, the actual damage done has gone through the roof. In the extended data that I'm too lazy to finish processing there is a very noticeable drop in retention after major wars, much larger than there used to be. By no means will I pretend we were saints, but perhaps we weren't as bad for the game as is sometimes made out.


[quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1315493729' post='2796835']
If only I hadn't rerolled so much...
[/quote]
I've heard that a lot over the years

[quote name='phillip110' timestamp='1315856804' post='2799325']
Sup Shan? Took my first nuke ever from you long, long, long ago. And nuked you back! Good times, good times.

Also, congrats on 2000 days! I can't believe I am a year and a half behind you and I'm still old!
[/quote]
Good to hear from you, seriously of all the wars I fought, yours is one of the most memorable. Good times... well for me at least. Hope it wasn't too bad for you.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1315874016' post='2799464']
In my 1,467 days I've been here, I've fought nations from NPO, VE, IRON, Fark, CSN, GO, FOK, Gremlins, FAN, \m/, GOONS, Tetris, MK, ODN, Non Grata and probably more that I'm forgetting. The only one I regret fighting somewhat was Gremlins, as regardless of whether I disagreed with them continuing their war with IRON/DAWN/TORN at the time, I shouldn't of attacked a former member of The Citadel even if Ramirus was a horrible leader. The rest either attacked me or I had a pretty good reason to fight them.
[/quote]
Well regardless of you distaste for attacking Citadel remnants, we're grateful for your assistance in that case.

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1315981798' post='2800257']
Q1 of 2006. How I wish I still had that nation. With all the rerolls, there's probably a bit more of us than the numbers show.

As far as steep progression goes, it perhaps could be an idea to give bigger boosts to smaller nations so they can grow faster. Another idea could be to bring the wonder buying from 30 to 15 days. Assuming one has a very tight economic setup, nations could become elite twice as fast. Double that with bigger growth in the early stages and you got a game that is more entertaining for everyone. However, that's just me thinking as I'm typing.

Thanks for staying around.
[/quote]
Personally I see this approach as highly counter-productive. One of the largest problems with Cyber Nations is the over-abundance of cash and hyper-inflation of nations. Adding more cash to the system and making people grow faster is only going to make the problem worse. I would, in fact, advocate the complete opposite, massive increase in bills, perhaps even limits on a national surplus. There used to be a lot more strategy and skill required for alliance economics and aid programs.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Shan Revan' timestamp='1316060954' post='2800723']Well regardless of you distaste for attacking Citadel remnants, we're grateful for your assistance in that case.[/quote]
Thanks, its good to know I wasn't fighting for a pointless cause at the time. I was glad to help you guys out, although Ramirus wasn't happy with it. I remember he was the one who requested that I have FCC attack IRON to assist them in Karma War, although he never showed any gratitude for my willingness to have the FCC declare on you guys to assist Gremlins at his request. His leadership alienated a lot of people who held Gremlins in high regard and considered them friends, by alienating everyone with his attitude of being rude to everyone and not caring about the relationships Gremlins had built up over the years. I'm glad that the more respectable former members of Gremlins are back in charge now and Ramirus gone, hopefully they don't hold what I did back then against me like Ramirus did.

[KahlanRahl]

These are interesting stats... I wish I hadn't rerolled my furanium nation from back in very early 08, but I think I'm doing pretty well with my 2009 nation. It's neat to see the old guard still alive and kicking, if it is thinning slowly...

Congrats on 2k days by the way.

Edited September 16, 2011 by KahlanRahl

[Archon]

Le sigh. I'd be in the 200s by now? Darn.

[WarriorConcept]

Shan makes me feel young.

[Dilber]

Shan is a youngin' Q1(January 2006) checking in. #605 nation ID, now the 9th oldest.