Imperial Decree - New Polar Order

[Smacky]

Because hypocrisy is a bad thing?

Use that line on someone else, I've wished complete and utter destruction on NPO and cronies for over a year.

[Quadriplegic]

The executioner is not the moral equivalent of the murderer.

[Master-Debater]

I am already seeing a few alliances as being quite a bit worse than NPO.

Really?

Sooooo where’s the EZI of leaders?

Force disbandment’s?

Terms impossible to meet?

Endless war because they have no intention of giving peace?

Endless surrender terms?

Force ejection of members? (caffeine wasn’t ejected)

I’m curious how any terms presented are harsher than those NPO has given in the past. They are harsh but are by far not harsher than what NPO has given alliances.

[BamaBuc]

Why should we be better? Heh. Your friends created this world we live in, they can learn to experience the other side of it.

Tempting, the dark side is. And yeah, Salmia is certainly a longtime ally of NPO. lol.

Grub, did I mention I love you? To look at this thing objectively after what you went through last year takes some serious moral fortitude.

-Bama

[George the Great]

I remember you in Continuum leadership having a grand old time with Moo and CJ and all the rest of those terrible rapscallions. To be quite frank, to just say "this will be the last time guys, I swear" is just ridiculous. No one has any reason to trust you, and plenty of the alliances involved (especially in the case of Echelon) have a history of harsh terms. I have seen no indication from Sparta that you are any different than you were in the past, when you were either participating in or condoning all of these things, which indicates you won't be any different in the future, as you don't seem to be any different right now.

I did for the first few months, I was naive and just went off the idea that they were our allies and friends. Until I realized they were allies, but not friends. I got into gov and Continuum leadership 3 months into being part of [OOC]the game[/OOC]. You haven't seen an indication of our difference? It's not like we changed sides at all, have opened up quite a bit on the forum or gave TOOL 'more than' white peace. Nope, you're right. I'll just look at the terms we're endorsing for the NPO, which were expected anyway, and say that no, we haven't changed. Oh wait, there's the bit that we're endorsing the terms on the NPO this time around, crap, that's different >_<. These are actually much harsher than any terms we personally signed off on in the past. It's more like there's no real indication to you, so quit making biased 'I hate Sparta' assumptions.

Would you like to join Sparta, btw?

Edited July 6, 2009 by George the Great

[Tygaland]

I remember Polaris being beaten on in order for legitimate change to occur. A "wake up call" as Grub referred to it as.

To be honest, the change in the NpO preceded the beat down. But no change, no matter how significant, was going to stop the mob from satisfying their blood-lust. New leader, new government, new attitude, it didn't matter. They had to be knocked down the ranking and knocked down hard. Such is life, I guess.

[WarriorConcept]

Oh dear lord where have you been. Try an almost complete policy revision and diplomatic mindset. Try the removal of the doctrine that defined ourselves for many of our members. Try the dozen threads in our forum about (I'll quote the titles) 'What we have done wrong" "Poll:New Home Page" (many find it too arrogant) and others. I dont know really what you need, but if all of our IO's hadnt personally apologized for what has happened, and the entire alliance wasnt committed to re-thinking our methods, we wouldnt be as coherent as we are now. Do you really think we can go through something like this without change?

Once NPO and its leaders makes a sincere apology for all its done wrong in the past, then all of us here in the public might start to believe you guys. Until then we don't have TWiP anymore so we can't really judge based on how you guys are acting internally, only on all the posts done externally.

[AnCapistan]

Sorry but no.

KARMA is not a bloc that after this war is going to turn into some major bloc to suppress the world. They will go their different ways and likely wind up at war with each other within one year.

They have no plans to turn into a new continuum or some new version of WUT of 1V.

They will go different ways. No more oppressing the little guy. No more hyper bloc looming over everything in the world and having all the sanctioned alliances banded together.

Any argument that Karma is forming some sort of super hyper bloc is idiotic.

NPO has earned every single bit of what they are getting. They were behind the killings of so many of the communities that you seem to be pushing saved. They sat by and supported their allies as they also did the same. Any argument that NPO isn’t getting what was coming to them is also, idiotic.

Echelon probably got more than they deserved but they are just as guilty as the rest of 1V and those who sat by and supported their actions.

Its NPO’s fault for doing what they did to get into this situation to begin with. They could have easily not started this war and not be in this position they are in. They knew what was coming and still tried to force an alliance to bend to their will.

Also: I was out for revenge on NPO. I wanted nothing more than to see NPO burn to the ground and be forced under the same terms that my friends have been forced to for the past few years. Karma does not have the same opinions as myself but I’m not going to lie.

OOC: It's just a game I think "killings is a strong word,no?

IC: No one doubts that Karma is only a wartime bloc. But one whethers whether or not the alliances that make up Karma will persue the same actions (as the Hegemony) once the war is over. Interesting times to say the least.

[Earogema]

This isn't comparable to Polar at all.

1. The CB is actually a good one.

2. Pacifica hasn't accepted terms. Polaris did.

3. Pacifica has a much more "rich" history than Polar does.

Reason #2 is precisely why. Now if FAN made this decree, I could see where you were going here, but I don't.

[Heft]

There is no revisionism. GtG specifically stated his regret in partaking in such actions. No one from Sparta, I assure you, has said we had no part in it. As I have stated previously, this is factored into the fact since we feel no need to take any reps because it isn't our place. Will we support the allies who stood with us on the field of battle? Absolutely.

The attitude I see here has not shown it. The attitude is of a political victor, not anything deeper. Sparta still allows and condones the same things they allowed and condoned a year ago.

[Zangmonkey]

Karma doesn't need to take power. They already have it.

Karma has nothing but a mission.

It was not bound by treaties, it was bound by honor.

As that honor erodes, so will any authority held by Karma.

The cyberverse will not stand for it; and when the time comes I'll stand with the cyberverse.

[Trout]

Yeah, nice post, but, no. NPO are getting what they deserve and it's just karma hitting them for what they've done over the years. Yeah, it's a !@#$%*.

[Haflinger]

Don't even, Haflinger. Comparing STA's situation with NPO's is ridiculous. Save for the Shark Wars, in which no reparations were received by STA, her enemies were given incredibly lenient terms, usually culminating in a complete white peace.

Don't you dare compare our situation to NPO's.

Huh?

I say you did something, you were justified, should have done it, and now I'm somehow criticizing STA?

[Canik]

Use that line on someone else, I've wished complete and utter destruction on NPO and cronies for over a year.

We aren't talking about you personally, Smacky. We were talking about Karma as a whole. Hence why you said "why should we" in your last post.

[WarriorConcept]

OOC: It's just a game I think "killings is a strong word,no?

IC: No one doubts that Karma is only a wartime bloc. But one whethers whether or not the alliances that make up Karma will persue the same actions (as the Hegemony) once the war is over. Interesting times to say the least.

The only alliances remaining that can consider themselves "Karma" anymore are those on the NPO and TPF front. If you look at those alliances left do you really see any of them acting like NPO has in the past?

[Stonewall Jaxon]

Pay attention to the boldened part folks. That was the vision when karma was just forming up. Some folks lost sight of that as the idea of vengeance began snake it's way into the definition of karma.

The definition of karma is vengeance- the naturally caused vengeance for wrongdoing. My friends, there is no morality here. People do what they have to do to accomplish their goals, and the goals of most major alliances is to become top dog. When NPO was top dog, they made decisions that were viewed as "immoral," such as EZI and eternal war. However, their actions had equal and opposite reactions. They created eternal enemies who couldn't survive in the game until NPO was brought down, and brought down NPO was. The decisions NPO made were the cause of their demise, and the severity of those decisions is what is causing their current situation. Now that Karma alliances are on top, their natural role in CN is to want to stay there. Right now, they have determined that their most lucrative path is to keep NPO down, and until there is a potential consequence, they will continue to do so. That's just how the cycle of endless chaos works.

Sorry if my thoughts seem jumbled. I really could write a WoT about this philosophy, but I won't. Call it "Chaosism," or "Realism" if you want to use a [OOC] real [/OOC] term

[hormones74]

Almighty Grub, you are probably one of the more caring players in this game and for that I applaud you. I remember seeing Polaris get dismantled last year. It was a pointless tactic. I remember NAAC getting handled in a bad way. That was uncalled for. There were so many total curbstomps the past couple of years in this game and there have been so many people who gave up hope and just quit.

I agree with your points in the OP. The time has come for the citizens of Bob to finally make a change for this game and to help make a difference.

[Aeternos Astramora]

Nice sentiments, but the real question is, what's NpO going to do about it?

[Heft]

I did for the first few months, I was naive and just went off the idea that they were our allies and friends. Until I realized they were allies, but not friends. I got into gov and Continuum leadership 3 months into being part of [OOC]the game[/OOC]. You haven't seen an indication of our difference? It's not like we changed sides at all, have opened up quite a bit on the forum or gave TOOL 'more than' white peace. Nope, you're right. I'll just look at what the terms we're endorsing for the NPO, which were expected anyway, and say that no, we haven't changed. Oh wait, there's the bit that we're endorsing the terms on the NPO as well, crap. It's more like there's no real indication to you, so quit making biased 'I hate Sparta' assumptions.

Would you like to join Sparta, btw?

You still condone the same actions you have in the past. You still apparently don't have the guts to stand up and stop the group you're a part of from doing things you disagree with. But you are much more arrogant than you were before, and its entirely undeserved. You achieved your current position through blatantly lying to longtime allies for months. That's a great moral victory right there.

[Tygaland]

Don't even, Haflinger. Comparing STA's situation with NPO's is ridiculous. Save for the Shark Wars, in which no reparations were received by STA, her enemies were given incredibly lenient terms, usually culminating in a complete white peace.

Don't you dare compare our situation to NPO's.

Just ignore him, he has a weird fixation and drawing attention to it just makes it worse.

[R3nowned]

Why should we be better? Heh. Your friends created this world we live in, they can learn to experience the other side of it.

Way to continue the vicious cycle. If you don't break this mentality of vengence, we'll never have a "better" CN. It will continue as it had for the past year, one with a tenuous peace held together due to fear of being rolled.

[LiquidMercury]

Karma has nothing but a mission.

It was not bound by treaties, it was bound by honor.

As that honor erodes, so will any authority held by Karma.

The cyberverse will not stand for it; and when the time comes I'll stand with the cyberverse.

Very well said and I most whole-heartedly agree.

[muffasamini]

Once NPO and its leaders makes a sincere apology for all its done wrong in the past, then all of us here in the public might start to believe you guys. Until then we don't have TWiP anymore so we can't really judge based on how you guys are acting internally, only on all the posts done externally.

Cause the TWiP was allways 100% truth . The apology is one of the terms we've stated were ok with. We got yelled at last time we stole karma's thunder giving Moldavi. (apparently a shallow PR stunt) We'll say it during the terms so Karma can look moore like a badass.

[Smacky]

Tempting, the dark side is. And yeah, Salmia is certainly a longtime ally of NPO. lol.

Grub, did I mention I love you? To look at this thing objectively after what you went through last year takes some serious moral fortitude.

-Bama

Who said anything about NPO? Being allied to TPF is more then enough to damn you along with the rest of the hegemony. You and Mhawk can spin the "new" TPF all you want, some of us have long memories.

[Merrie Melodies]

o/ Grub

Great job saying something that so desperately need to said so well.

You have my support no matter how far this goes.