A Statement from Doomhouse

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1301949531' post='2684138']
Except that this isn't really a PR hit and your only alternative to:
[i]"We are thinking that if we come out of peace mode, you will hit us for one month and then hit us again anytime you wish to."[/i]

is:
[i]"We will stay at war indefinitely, thus bringing worse results to ourselves than if we had accepted the first option."[/i]

Even if you are paranoid that Doomhouse will wage war for a month should you get out of PM en masse, your current predicament is the worse possible path. All other paths include at least an amelioration of your current political position.

I'm pretty sure your leadership understands that.
[/quote]

You should look at my AA before you assume I am in NPO. I am part of Dark Templar in case you did not notice. An alliance that has nothing to do with either DH or NPO. I just happen to see through the lies and !@#$%^&* that DH is attempting to spread.

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1301949834' post='2684140']
yeah, well, you said this a few minutes before-



which is what i was referring to when I said you want to bring the "old ways" back. most of us have already had this happen to us before at the hands of NPO and it's various power structures; and what Doomhouse has accepted in regards to terms doesn't match up with what you're suggesting. i guess what we're offering people now is pretty steep, but, then people were also walking away from white peace earlier. so, i don't know, man. re-read your comment above with the one below and see what i mean?
[/quote]

Yes, that was me advocating for the old ways to be brought back... /sarcasm. No, that was me poking fun of what you said since I doubt that GOONS would accept those terms and then we would have GOONS crying all over the boards about how so and so are keeping them in an eternal war because the terms were unacceptable to GOONS. So you should actually re-read what I wrote and realize the context it was actually in. Good attempt but still a complete failure at spinning it.

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1301967198' post='2684377']
I seem to recall it starting amongst the Hegemony side in the Karma War with an astounding rush to peace mode by alliances like Valhalla...Legion...Invicta...really their entire side, once the tables started to turn. I mean really it's whole basis for Purplol. In fact, the great curbstomps NPO partook in, were only great because alliances like Mushroom Kingdom fought them tooth and nail.

I'm sure there are exceptions but for me...that was the rule. I remember, EVERYONE fought in GWIII.
[/quote]

yeah iirc FAN was one of those alliances who used Peace Mode strat just like is being done now. And to my knowledge FAN is hailed for utilizing it by your side.

[quote name='speakerwire' timestamp='1301971005' post='2684412']
We may do these things, but we don't hide behind an expendable line of unimportant nations whose hopes we dash with our apathy. We are not unique in bringing these things into common play either.

And for the most part, we're pretty civil about our actions.

Peace had been offered, we only wanted the economic oligarchy of NPO to pay their share of blood to come even with the sacrifices made by the junior nations - the ones who had been misled through propoganda and lies to fight for them. To defend interests that would provide them with no benefit. Ultimately, it could be said that we did it for the proles - a sentiment finally being picked up by the lower classes if the number of NPO expatriates is anything to gauge by.
[/quote]

Again with the wannabe messiah bit? Seriously, no one chose ya'll. Not to mention, what did NPO need with propaganda or lies? DH aggressively attacked NPO for no damn reason whatsoever except whatever lies, half-truths, or !@#$%^&* stretched ridiculously thin crap spews forth from ya'll or your gov members.

Actually, what you did was launch an unnecessary war for no reason and then instead of peace out when the Polar-VE war ended, you continued the war with some !@#$%^&* instead. That actually appears to be an attempt to drive nations from Planet Bob.

[JustIncredible]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301973418' post='2684441']
We're doing it to save the planet from people like you.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerishehL5.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Because I don't support your actions of trying to be "superman" and "save" us, doesn't mean I agree with their strategies, BUT it damn sure doesn't give you any !@#$@#$ right to try and tell people how to run their alliance, fight their wars or speak for all of Planet Bob. Don't come in trying to act like some knight in shining armor, we don't want your help.


[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301973418' post='2684441']
As if FAN need any sort of reason or justification for taking out any kind of revenge on NPO they see fit. Anything FAN gives to NPO is too good for them. And I support them 100%.
[right][img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisR12.jpg[/img][/right][/quote]

I agree with this, FAN has a valid reason to want to see NPO rolled. My point was they waited until it was convenient to do something about it. Being the opportunistic cowards they are.

Also iirc, did FAN not use PM during their war with Pacifica to stay alive? The same peace mode strategy now that you want to "save us from"... hmm..

It really seems as if NPO has taken FANS playbook, and DH has taken NPO's, and FAN has taken VE's (with being opportunistic and all)

Edited April 5, 2011 by JustIncredible

[Lurunin]

[quote name='JustIncredible' timestamp='1301971479' post='2684420']
Does it really matter? Either way, no matter who contacted who, FAN were obviously just being opportunistic cowards that couldn't pay NPO back for what they did without jumping on DH's nuts.
[/quote]

actually it would matter in helping determining reasons for the war....if FAN contacted DH govt first then it can be seen that past grudges were on table and wanted resolved and wanted back up on the matter from one the most connected BLOCs in CN....if DH contacted FAN govt first then they were trying to cripple NPO as much as possible and make the odds not only more in their odds but attempt to persuade fringe alliances not to join on NPO's side

it could also be used to tell when actual planning could have taken place, whether it be soon as NPO got out of terms or soon as PB-NpO war started

[mrwuss]

[quote name='JustIncredible' timestamp='1301974325' post='2684449']
Because I don't support your actions of trying to be "superman" and "save" us, doesn't mean I agree with their strategies, BUT it damn sure doesn't give you any !@#$@#$ right to try and tell people how to run their alliance, fight their wars or speak for all of Planet Bob. Don't come in trying to act like some knight in shining armor, we don't want your help.




I agree with this, FAN has a valid reason to want to see NPO rolled. My point was they waited until it was convenient to do something about it. Being the opportunistic cowards they are.

Also iirc, did FAN not use PM during their war with Pacifica to stay alive? The same peace mode strategy now that you want to "save us from"... hmm..

It really seems as if NPO has taken FANS playbook, and DH has taken NPO's, and FAN has taken VE's (with being opportunistic and all)
[/quote]

How can we be superman? We are still alive and walking over NPO.

NPO has no playbook, they are leaning on the mouth of the masses which includes people like yourself and HoT. Does that come across as a well thought out play to you? I bet it does since you are relatively stupid when it comes to a personal, non band-wagon style thought.

Super Heroes do what is best for the world, they never ask. You can thank me later.

I now await your rushed, repeated reply that will contain no less than 5 references to something someone else said and how much you enjoy applesauce.

Love eternally,
mrwuss jr III esq MD PHD DDA

[JustIncredible]

[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1301977864' post='2684474']
How can we be superman? We are still alive and walking over NPO.

NPO has no playbook, they are leaning on the mouth of the masses which includes people like yourself and HoT. Does that come across as a well thought out play to you? I bet it does since you are relatively stupid when it comes to a personal, non band-wagon style thought.

Super Heroes do what is best for the world, they never ask. You can thank me later.

I now await your rushed, repeated reply that will contain no less than 5 references to something someone else said and how much you enjoy applesauce.

Love eternally,
mrwuss jr III esq MD PHD DDA
[/quote]

Welcome back to the thread wuss [img]http://forum.mininova.org/public/style_emoticons/default/troll.png[/img]

and wait a minute... I fought on the Karma side of the war, supported MK and Karma for trying to "change" things for the better and now because I feel personally betrayed by those same people I'm bandwagoning? I've been around a lot longer than my nation or profile shows, but I believe being (or at least feeling) stabbed in the back by MK especially gives me plenty enough reason to dislike you and your cause.

Edited April 5, 2011 by JustIncredible

[mrwuss]

[quote name='JustIncredible' timestamp='1301978033' post='2684476']
Welcome back to the thread wuss [img]http://forum.mininova.org/public/style_emoticons/default/troll.png[/img]

and wait a minute... I fought on the Karma side of the war, supported MK and Karma for trying to "change" things for the better and now because I feel personally betrayed by those same people I'm bandwagoning? I've been around a lot longer than my nation or profile shows, but I believe being (or at least feeling) stabbed in the back by MK especially gives me plenty enough reason to dislike you and your cause.
[/quote]

Appologies then as I seem to have lumped you into the remaining ilk.


Love forever and ever,
mrwuss jr III esq MD PHD DDA RPh

[Stetson76]

I keep being disappointed whenever I see this thread. The subtitle upon a glance looks like "EMO END" and I keep hoping it means Doomhouse is going to quite crying about how mean NPO used to be to them but they just keep letting me down. They're also now claiming not only was the NPO mean to us in the past, they might be mean to us again! LOL

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1301971153' post='2684416']
You would not have been attacked. If you clearly stated you were out, that'd be the end of it. Granted you lose great allies like Legion and TPF (who wouldn't have much reason to stay out of the war anymore) and such but at least you'd truly be "out of it" like you've claimed. If you think Doomhouse would attack you and destroy it's position in the same way NPO attacked GPA and is still haunted by that...

...I'm not saying you do think that way but if you did it would explain a lot.



FAN does it's own thing, I think. You need to understand the kind of grudge that can develop over years of permanent warfare, though, to fully grasp the "why".

They're connected in that, NPO's allies were not joining a conflict they were desperately needed in, despite their treaties binding them to do so. They're not connected, because NPO's allies didn't join that war.

If they had it would have become one war. I think. Anyway here we are fighting each other.
[/quote]
GOONS should kick this dumbass out for advocating cowardice.

Also the whole "You have to declare neutrality or you deserve war!" line is beyond ridiculous. Please stop.
[img]http://www.64digits.com/users/HeroofTime55/darkrai_thumb_7.png[/img]

[kevin32891]

Who cares about FAN? We know they mad.

Just deal with it.
[img]http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/9500/drstevebrule.jpg[/img]

[Aurion]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1301955743' post='2684231']
[right][IMG]http://i54.tinypic.com/2m4aliq.jpg[/IMG][/right]
[/quote]
[quote name='JustIncredible' timestamp='1301978033' post='2684476']
[img]http://forum.mininova.org/public/style_emoticons/default/troll.png[/img]
[/quote]
[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1301980014' post='2684489']
[img]http://www.64digits.com/users/HeroofTime55/darkrai_thumb_7.png[/img]
[/quote]
[quote name='kevin32891' timestamp='1301980434' post='2684492']
[img]http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/9500/drstevebrule.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

...Dammit Beefspari, look at what you've unleashed upon us all!

[speakerwire]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1301980014' post='2684489']
Also the whole "You have to declare neutrality or you deserve war!" line is beyond ridiculous. Please stop.
[img]http://www.64digits.com/users/HeroofTime55/darkrai_thumb_7.png[/img]
[/quote]

Not really.

Alliances will get involved in conflicts if they feel it suits their interests. Taking advantage of a war between others to allow you to get rid of one or both with minimal effort on your side doesn't seem terribly uncommon around here. Not to mention things like taking advantage of wars to raid tech or aid moneys from the more feeble or downtrodden of nations involved in those wars.

Also, mind you, to say there was bad blood between the involved nations is an understatement, so it was with a practical sort of surety that things moved forward under the assumption that NPO involvement was practically assured if things took a turn for the worse.

There were other factors too -- that were argued about ad nauseum through the first 170 pages of this thread.

[Monster]

[quote name='Lurunin' timestamp='1301976406' post='2684464']
actually it would matter in helping determining reasons for the war....if FAN contacted DH govt first then it can be seen that past grudges were on table and wanted resolved and wanted back up on the matter from one the most connected BLOCs in CN....if DH contacted FAN govt first then they were trying to cripple NPO as much as possible and make the odds not only more in their odds but attempt to persuade fringe alliances not to join on NPO's side

it could also be used to tell when actual planning could have taken place, whether it be soon as NPO got out of terms or soon as PB-NpO war started
[/quote]

You know you could always ask FAN yourself since they don't come out here often.

Not really sure why someone would spend a year planning a war, though.

Ultimately, the reason for the combined DH/FAN attack was that alliances that don't like NPO were slated to counter them and there was enough of a suspicion for them(I don't expect everyone to automatically agree) based on evidence that has since become public that there were games being played by the alliances who had treaties with NPO allies to not bring them in until last relying on more fringe alliances to come in before that. The earliest instance was all of NpO's allies coming in except Legion. Let's say Legion had gone in and were countered and NPO didn't enter, then there would be no reason to think of it as a possibility and TPF for STA. Both with no NPO entry following would dispel any such notions, especially if it was hinted that they wouldn't bring NPO in or if NPO expressed a desire to stay out publicly. I don't really want to get into the argument again, but that's what it was based on. It's been disputed, but that's not really pertinent.

RV already said the most valuable cards were being saved for last, but I'm not sure if you want to believe him, but it goes with everything that actually went down, given that the NPO never really expressed its intent despite knowing about the possibility of an attack.

Edited April 5, 2011 by Antoine Roquentin

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1301971153' post='2684416']
You would not have been attacked. If you clearly stated you were out, that'd be the end of it. Granted you lose great allies like Legion and TPF (who wouldn't have much reason to stay out of the war anymore) and such but at least you'd truly be "out of it" like you've claimed. If you think Doomhouse would attack you and destroy it's position in the same way NPO attacked GPA and is still haunted by that...

[/quote]


Problem being Roq has already said NPO was getting rolled soon no matter what, either as part of the Polar/VE fiasco or shortly after.

And I really hope this ends the poor wittle FAN stuff that constantly crops up here on Bob for good. It's not like they were Little Mary Sunshine strolling innocently along back when they got rolled years ago.

[Monster]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1301983223' post='2684514']
Problem being Roq has already said NPO was getting rolled soon no matter what, either as part of the Polar/VE fiasco or shortly after.

And I really hope this ends the poor wittle FAN stuff that constantly crops up here on Bob for good. It's not like they were Little Mary Sunshine strolling innocently along back when they got rolled years ago.
[/quote]

I don't know about soon as I didn't give a definitive timeline, but NPO was still widely disliked, given that they would still be disliked if they sat out and being the most disliked alliance, in all probability they would get rolled at some point. I think even they knew that they'd be at a significant risk if Polar just went down on its own.

Essentially if NPO was fully neutral, they would be giving up the ability to have Polar and its sphere of allies on the same side and be on their own, while the coalition opposing Polar would take little damage. Losing a war with more alliances on your side is more advantageous than losing one without them.

Edited April 5, 2011 by Antoine Roquentin

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1301974214' post='2684448']
You should look at my AA before you assume I am in NPO. I am part of Dark Templar in case you did not notice. An alliance that has nothing to do with either DH or NPO. I just happen to see through the lies and !@#$%^&* that DH is attempting to spread. [/quote]
Way to not address a point, congratulations. We were discussing the possible scenarios the NPO (and friends) are facing. The fact that I wrote my post at the "you" changes nothing to what I'm saying, which you conveniently decided to ignore.

Also, being paranoid has nothing to do with "seeing through lies". The peace offer cannot be a lie until the NPO decides to play ball. Until then, you're just assuming DH will not honor their word. Assuming someone will do something =/ someone doing that thing.

[mrwuss]

I assume everyone who is mad at DH is only mad because we didn't allow them to join the best bloc ever.

Since I have no proof of this then it will go down on the books as fact. Maybe we should start DH Minor.. We can fill it with people we will train to move up to the pro team.

Also someone needs to post the definition of 'negative proof'.
NPO will get it's peace after it follows the given requests, no additional requests would be given. If you think otherwise then prove it, or stop spreading it as fact.

Again, this is NPO. Not anyone but NPO, if your AA isn't listed as NPO then it doesn't extend to you.

I hope that cleared it up for HoT before he comes in and says 'our' again, that silly nobody do nothing!

Edited April 5, 2011 by mrwuss

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1301983955' post='2684521']
Way to not address a point, congratulations. We were discussing the possible scenarios the NPO (and friends) are facing. The fact that I wrote my post at the "you" changes nothing to what I'm saying, which you conveniently decided to ignore.

Also, being paranoid has nothing to do with "seeing through lies". The peace offer cannot be a lie until the NPO decides to play ball. Until then, you're just assuming DH will not honor their word. Assuming someone will do something =/ someone doing that thing.
[/quote]

Actually, I have already addressed what would happen should NPO/et al bring their nations out of PM en masse. Apparently, it was you who ignored that despite there being several posts on that matter.

And if I am paranoid, then what do you call DH? Paranoid to the extreme I would venture since ya'll hit NPO on nothing but rumors, hearsay, and hatred.

As for DH, considering how much DH has lied through their teeth already, ya'lls word is worthless, useless, and should be expected not to be honored. Maybe if ya'll want people to actually trust you, you should avoid lying at every opportunity you possibly can.

[mrwuss]

What was lied about, drop a list.

Or drop that viewpoint.

Assumptions != lies; FYI.

[General Scipio]

Docartaigh, here is your chance. Tell us all everything Dumbhouse has ever lied about. We'll wait.

[Lord Curzon]

[quote name='General Scipio' timestamp='1301985626' post='2684534']
Docartaigh, here is your chance. Tell us all everything Dumbhouse has ever lied about. We'll wait.
[/quote]

Well for one there was that whole thing about preemptive strikes being wrong to do...

Edit: though I suppose disingenuous is a better word

Edited April 5, 2011 by Lord Curzon

[Lurunin]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1301983204' post='2684513']
You know you could always ask FAN yourself since they don't come out here often.

Not really sure why someone would spend a year planning a war, though.

Ultimately, the reason for the combined DH/FAN attack was that alliances that don't like NPO were slated to counter them and there was enough of a suspicion based on evidence that has since become public that there were games being played by the alliances who had treaties with NPO allies to not bring them in until last relying on more fringe alliances to come in before that. The earliest instance was all of NpO's allies coming in except Legion. Let's say Legion had gone in and were countered and NPO didn't enter, then there would be no reason to think of it as a possibility or TPF for STA.

RV already said the most valuable cards were being saved for last, but I'm not sure if you want to believe him, but it goes with everything that actually went down, given that the NPO never really expressed its intent despite knowing about the possibility of an attack.
[/quote]

sadly, have tried a few times....everytime no Gov were online :/

honestly i take things RV says with a grain of salt...you always know something is being embellished so best to be weary of it from the beginning


[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1301985013' post='2684528']
What was lied about, drop a list.

Or drop that viewpoint.

Assumptions != lies; FYI.
[/quote]

[list]
[*] can we PLEASE start with how this war was !@#$@#$ started? PLEASE?! again, half of DH govt say that the DH-NPO war was an extension of the PB-NpO conflict while the other half state that they are completely opposite.

[*] next we can move on to the "Everything Must Die" campaign of yours....you state that you are only trying to basically contain NPO and their allies from reaking havok on CN yet with every move DH has made it has been nothing be a show for past grudges to be used and abused

[*] [quote]
We near the end. The end of forced disbandment. The end of terms that cripple alliances forever. The end of silence for fear of persecution. The end of the influence of those who would overthrow these goals in favor of their own return to power. The end of cowardice. The end of myth and fear. The end of this war.[/quote]

again with this quote...having a month of total warfare after an already lengthy fight can cripple an alliance more than just reps seeing as how you can lose members and valuable tech, especially if this was supposed to be a fringe war as many claimed it was and had even terms set in the PB-NpO war as such. not to mention that if DH is willing to strike NPO out of a mere threat its hard to tell who else may be declared on...DT for speaking out against GOD/CSN? LoSS for condemning DH actions? TPF for proving to be a threat since they always help their treaty partners?

right now the only way DH actions can really change is if their allies basically state "dude back the $%&@ down or we'll cancel our treaty...we are not heading down this road"

[*] Can we not forget the pre-emptive strike used against CnG in Bipolar? there was clear consensus, even by some on TOP's side, that a pre-emptive strike is deplorable...yet now it seems its ok to do so long as you actually win said war?
[/list]

also before you tell me this wuss....i dont give a damn what you think of my opinion...if you think i am just making accusations, who cares? at the end of the day you arent the one that will be making any kind of alliance decisions

Edited April 5, 2011 by Lurunin

[Monster]

The thing is, no one else is as worried as you seem to be for them. There's no incentive for DH to roll DT or whoever. "Everything must die" is a heavy metal song popular within Artolia and has no literal implications. You are trying to say everyone will be viewed as NPO as has been will be viewed in a similar fashion despite sharing none of the history. A lack of taking a historical perspective into account is the only way you can say that "x is next".

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1301950947' post='2684153']
Yeah. Dumb NPO not paying to it's enemy's strengths. How dare they?!
[/quote]

It's much better to bury your head in the sand and pretend that you have magic alliances coming to your rescue any second.

[mrwuss]

ok so everything he listed isn't a lie in the least does someone else want to take the bat and swing away?

How you feel versus what we say does not make what we say a lie. Just because you don't like the reasons given for the war does not invalidate them, sorry.

The sky is polka dotted; this is a lie.
The sky is aqua while you feel it's more of a light blue does not make what we stated a lie.


You obviously do care what I think of you since you went out of your way to tell me you don't, so now you are the dirty liar!

[Lord Curzon]

[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1301987645' post='2684545']
ok so everything he listed isn't a lie in the least does someone else want to take the bat and swing away?

How you feel versus what we say does not make what we say a lie. Just because you don't like the reasons given for the war does not invalidate them, sorry.

The sky is polka dotted; this is a lie.
The sky is aqua while you feel it's more of a light blue does not make what we stated a lie.


You obviously do care what I think of you since you went out of your way to tell me you don't, so now you are the dirty liar!
[/quote]

K, I'll repost this one for you just so you don't get confused

[quote name='Lord Curzon' timestamp='1301986012' post='2684535']
Well for one there was that whole thing about preemptive strikes being wrong to do...

Edit: though I suppose disingenuous is a better word
[/quote]

So, if you at one point you stated that you thought preemptive strikes were wrong, then you did them and magically changed your mind once you did them, you were either lying about those original thoughts, or you gained some realization from His Holiness Delay that you were wrong.

Having said that, that doesn't apply to everyone in DH, especially the gov. For example, Roq has been pretty clear about not having a problem with the principle of a preemptive strike.

Though, I think if you're honest with yourselves, you'll acknowledge that the majority, or at least a large minority, of your general membership played the "preemptive strikes are wrong" card last year when we (TTIDT) did it to you. So you were either being disingenuous, or have received enlightenment.