A Statement from Doomhouse

[Varianz]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301936506' post='2684046']
For the record I don't think this "You're the same," "No [i][b]you're[/b][/i] the same" argument is going to get us anywhere.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL7.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
I disagree, we're at 173 pages so far, we must have accomplished [i]something[/i].

[SADeki]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1301938336' post='2684058']
I disagree, we're at 173 pages so far, we must have accomplished [i]something[/i].
[/quote]

You'd be surprised.

[Borsche]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1301938336' post='2684058']
I disagree, we're at 173 pages so far, we must have accomplished [i]something[/i].
[/quote]

Lots of laughs on all sides.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Borsche' timestamp='1301918985' post='2683945']
We aren't dragging out anything. NPO and her allies are dragging this out by not surrendering. As Sard said, Doomhouse is winning. The terms are to be dictated by Doomhouse and accepted by NPO and her allies. This is how war works.
[/quote]

So by those standards when GOONS loses a war and the only term is eternal tech farm, GOONS will be either perfectly fine accepting said term or will know that GOONS are the ones dragging the war out instead of whoever GOONS is fighting?

If the terms are something that you know the other side will refuse to accept, then it is still you that is dragging the war out with your terms.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1301939174' post='2684066']
So by those standards when GOONS loses a war and the only term is eternal tech farm, GOONS will be either perfectly fine accepting said term or will know that GOONS are the ones dragging the war out instead of whoever GOONS is fighting?

If the terms are something that you know the other side will refuse to accept, then it is still you that is dragging the war out with your terms.
[/quote]
It gets sticky when the only term the other side is willing to accept is white peace. In that context, [i][b]all[/b][/i] peace terms are unreasonable. This argument goes both ways. We didn't know NPO would refuse to accept our terms.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-L7.jpg[/img]

[LittleRena]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301939515' post='2684068']
It gets sticky when the only term the other side is willing to accept is white peace. In that context, [i][b]all[/b][/i] peace terms are unreasonable. This argument goes both ways. We didn't know NPO would refuse to accept our terms.
[/quote]

You must know now that they won't accept so isn't it time to go back to the drawing board and think of something else that they might accpet, something which counts their allies into the same peace terms? I won't say white peace since it's obvious that isn't a term you would offer but you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket.
[right][IMG]http://i54.tinypic.com/2m4aliq.jpg[/IMG][/right]

[The Crimson King]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301939515' post='2684068']
It gets sticky [b]when the only term the other side is willing to accept is white peace.[/b] In that context, [i][b]all[/b][/i] peace terms are unreasonable. This argument goes both ways. We didn't know NPO would refuse to accept our terms.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-L7.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Well good thing that no one is saying white peace or nothing then huh...

So you might want to stick to arguments that actually have even a remote bearing on the situation at hand.



Also if you thought that terms consisting of 30 days at war with no specific caveats or protection granted in regards to things like what percentages of nations have to come out of PM and in what ranges, when they have to come out, when the clock starts for the alliance to be at war, or numerous other things that should have been common sense to include in the initial offer, and then furthermore you toss up a thread in less that 24 hrs laying out your "generous" offer to the masses, should have been taken seriously then you are deluded. Any alliance would dismiss that dog and pony show for what it was...a PR stunt and nothing more. So please can the fake surprise that NPO did not take the offer that spawned this trainwreck of a thread seriously.

Edited April 4, 2011 by The Crimson King

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Borsche' timestamp='1301920477' post='2683956']
First of all, I personally don't remember starting a war.

Secondly, Doomhouse wants them to accept terms because they are the victors. The victors dictate terms in wars that they win. Why is this so hard for you.
[/quote]

Seriously? So you are trying to state that NPO hit DH? Wow. You seriously drank that kool-aid and took part in some sort of brainwashing regimen.

[quote name='Borsche' timestamp='1301925218' post='2683978']
It's really cute that you believe this. NPO wouldn't have to "put its people out for the firing squad". They simply have to fight on fair terms for an acceptable amount of time.

It is akin to forcing the general to fight with his men. The fact that the 'general' in this situation (the upper echelons in peace mode, and what seems to be the entirety of Legion) is outright refusing to fight with his men is laughable at best and dishonorable at worst. And, frankly, in terms of war strategy it is just idiotic considering the upper echelons on the side of Doomhouse are free to deliver aid without any retribution at all.
[/quote]

Except DH already forced war upon NPO period. In terms of war strategy, it appears DH are complete buffoons. Otherwise they would know that allowing your upper tier to get completely demolished for an entire month is plain retarded. Only those so mentally challenged that the only thing they can do is drool all over themselves would honestly believe that allowing your upper tier to be destroyed is strategically viable.

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1301926378' post='2683981']
Let's see:

As it is, the public offer is this:
1)NPO and co. leave peace, suffer a month of "complete warfare".
2)NPO and co. then receive peace with no terms.

Assuming you are right about it, however, the offer becomes:
1)NPO and co. leave peace, suffer a month of "complete warfare".
2)NPO and co. are imposed surrender terms (which they can always refuse).

However, if you are of that mindset - and I don't necessarily blame you for it -, here is your only alternative:
1)NPO and co. keep on waging war for longer than a month.
2)NPO and co. end up with imposed surrender terms.

Their situation doesn't improve. Sure, they do keep a certain number of nations intact but those nations are under heavy Peace Mode penalties and cannot really grow. Moreover, the might of a nation is important only in terms of projected power. In this case, it is nullified by the simple fact that, should they decide to use it for any reason (aka leave peace mode), they would get counter-attacked immediatly. They can always hope for a change in the political world, one that would permit them to safely escape their current predicament but I don't see it happening in the next six to ten months, at least.

Simply put, should they decide to go with option 1, in one month from now, they will have the same projected power they hold right now but they would be in a much better political and military position for two reasons:
1)They would force the hand of Doomhouse: either honor your word or suffer a massive PR hit, one which could sway fringe alliances against them.
2)They would have nothing left to lose and would vastly outnumber their foes in the low, very low tier. They could easily opt to wage permanent war from that point on. Morale is much better in an alliance or a coalition if everyone suffers equally and is in the same situation.

Now, it's up to them to decide but that would be my analysis. By stonewalling as they are, they are gaining nothing and their position is weakening with every passing day.
[/quote]

Or Option 3 which is DH suffering a massive PR hit right now due to offering these terms in the first place and due to the OP easily being found out to be complete lies and utter trash. When DH only wants the complete destruction of several alliances or demands reps and !@#$%^&* terms for no other reason than some dumbass alliance was attacked (won't even get into how said dumbass alliance was one of 4 alliances who started the whole war so it was attacked by alliances defending their ally), then DH posts a retarded pack of lies like the OP, it shows how much of a PR hit ya'll taking. The OP would have been a beautiful propaganda piece for DH if not accompanied with the !@#$%^&* "1 month of war so can demolish your upper tier and leave you totally defenseless for the next time we wish to aggressively attack NPO for not playing the game the way we want NPO to play this game".

Next time you want to gain PR, you should give white peace for an aggressive war you started.

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301930329' post='2684005']
This paranoid line of reasoning that agreed-upon peace terms won't lead to peace could be applied to literally any war that was ever fought, and it still wouldn't hold water. The idea that we would put a peace offer on the table and then laugh evilly as we keep attacking anyway after the terms are fulfilled is nothing more than propaganda itself.
[right][img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisfffR2.jpg[/img][/right]
[/quote]

Except for the fact that the only time that the terms included "you must fight for x-amount of time before getting peace" was done by NPO. Most wars end with terms that people are used to or, shocker, white peace. Stating you must fight for another month in order to gain peace but said month only starts at some unknown time that you have to perform a specific action that we have not told you about yet. You stated that NPO must have their upper tier come out of PM, well how many is that? is that all of them? What if all of them cannot come out on the same day due to RL reasons? Does that mean if someone in NPO cannot get on for say a week because of RL, it is a month and a week of war?

See, if DH had just stated, "We will fight for one more month from March 28, 2011 until April 25th, 2011 and then this war will be over with" you would not have taken such flak. Instead, you are pulling some retarded ass moves and that is why you are taking such flak. This war is DH's fault (along with FAN but it appears FAN are not trying for eternal war like DH is) and it is DH's fault it will become an eteral war.

[quote name='Borsche' timestamp='1301931005' post='2684008']
There is no need to be so rude. The fact of the matter is that NPO deserves this.
[/quote]

No. Now don't get me wrong, I would not cry if NPO got crushed but I sure as hell don't want the pathetic and retarded precedents that DH could institute to stay in existence. I would rather that they stay dead as they were when NPO/co got crushed in Karma.

[quote name='Borsche' timestamp='1301932059' post='2684014']
Ah yes. NPO is the poor, pathetic, innocent alliance. And of course I say this as a former member of the NAAC (rip). Of course, beyond that, VietFAN, GOONland resistance, GPA's curbstomping; none of this really happened did it?
[/quote]

All that was done with in Karma. Get over it or stop complaining when people bring up your past. Don't forget that Umbrella partook in GPA's curbstomping willingly and licking their lips.

NAAC was done in by themselves and fought Polaris before they disbanded not Pacifica. So if you are a former member of NAAC you would know that and thus attempting to use that against Pacifica is plain stupid.

Same with the GOONland resistance which was lead by Polaris and GGA, not Pacifica. So seriously, get your facts straight or stfu.

If NPO deserves to be stomped on for VietFAN, then so does MHA, TOP, Umbrella, Sparta, and many many others who partook in it. Same with GPA. Umbrella deserves to be stomped for willingly taking part in GPA's curbstomp. So much so, they entered on an oA to get in on the action.

So, until ya'll start going after everyone else, stfu on using them as reasons as they are nothing more than propaganda to you now. You obviously don't give a damn about true justice otherwise you would be hitting everyone that was involved and not just NPO. Until I start seeing some more wars by DH, particularly against Umbrella, then it is just another tool for DH to use. Ya'll are not some white knights. Ya'll some pathetic my idols using reasons that were dealt with in Karma and done with after Karma, to hit NPO again because you can.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1301940119' post='2684074']
You must know now that they won't accept so isn't it time to go back to the drawing board and think of something else that they might accpet, something which counts their allies into the same peace terms? I won't say white peace since it's obvious that isn't a term you would offer but you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket.
[/quote]
We've already been doing this (discussing possible alternatives), but this still doesn't solve the problem I mentioned. Just as easily as their side can say "You're only giving us terms you know we won't accept," if they're going "We won't accept anything but white peace," then this entire effort is pointless for everyone involved. It can equally be either side's fault that peace isn't happening. So if we're going to be blamed for one extreme, realize it can be the other extreme and NPO's fault just as well.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL11.jpg[/img]

Edited April 4, 2011 by Beefspari

[LittleRena]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301940799' post='2684078']
We've already been doing this (discussing possible alternatives), but this still doesn't solve the problem I mentioned. Just as easily as their side can say "You're only giving us terms you know we won't accept," if they're going "We won't accept anything but white peace," then this entire effort is pointless for everyone involved. It can equally be either side's fault that peace isn't happening. So if we're going to be blamed for one extreme, realize it can be the other extreme and NPO's fault just as well.
[/quote]

Sure, it's partly the fault of NPO and co for being so stubborn but let's face it, it's mostly the fault of DH and co for starting this whole mess and that's why we are here today, in a circular argument. You stopped NPO from entering on the PB-NpO front ([i]if they where going to anyway is still debatable[/i]), so that's mission accomplished right? Why do you [i]need[/i] them to fight with their upper teirs?
[right][IMG]http://i55.tinypic.com/14b3l8k.jpg[/IMG][/right]

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Borsche' timestamp='1301933074' post='2684025']
'We' didn't do anything. I wasn't a part of the original GOONS, and I do not condone that behavior. Not to mention that the current GOONS are structured completely differently from the previous alliance. Please get your history correct or refrain from making ignorant statements.

But the main point here isn't what 'they' did. They were forced to disband which I think perhaps suited their crimes. Regardless, it doesn't absolve NPO of their crimes at all.
[/quote]

Says the one who attempted to blame NPO for two crimes that were not theirs. Get your history straight or stfu right? GOONS was not forced to disband, they chose to disband big difference there mate.

[quote name='Borsche' timestamp='1301933708' post='2684031']
GOONS is 'absolved' because they aren't the same alliance! How is this hard for you to understand? If the Goon Order of Neutral Shoving came back, then I would consider them to be just as despicable. However, this is the Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism.

On the other hand, this is the same NPO. The same leadership, the same structure. The same NPO, with the same crimes.
[/quote]

Actually GOONS 2.0 has more of the same leadership as GOONS 1.0 (Sardonic and Lamuella that i know of) than NPO does. Yes, that is right, GOONS 2.0 in that aspect is far more similar to GOONS of the past than NPO is to NPO of the past. So that means that GOONS 2.0 is the same as GOONS 1.0 which means GOONS 2.0 deserve war based on the crimes of GOONS 1.0 amirite?

Same Structure- So Umbrella has the same structure as the Umbrella that hit GPA. So that means that Umbrella obviously warrants war for attacking GPA amirite?

heh 2/3rds of DH are guilty of the same crimes they blame NPO for and yet they are not paying for their crimes of the past. Why is that? And don't lie and state you are not the same as before, I just proved how both of ya'll were based on the same criteria you used against NPO. So either your criteria is utter !@#$%^&* and NPO deserves white peace right now based on the lies of DH or DH needs to attack themselves based on their own criteria of how to state an alliance is the same as in the past.

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301939515' post='2684068']
It gets sticky when the only term the other side is willing to accept is white peace. In that context, [i][b]all[/b][/i] peace terms are unreasonable. This argument goes both ways. We didn't know NPO would refuse to accept our terms.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-L7.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

You seriously thought that NPO would be retarded enough to accept a term that would neuter them for well over a year? Seriously...... that is some of the dumbest !@#$ I have ever heard. This term due to this situation (with NPO's upper tier being not only so heavily out numbered by so heavily out teched) that this is DH either demanding the complete destruction or eternal war. No alliance in their right mind would have their upper tier get completely demolished willingly.

In that context, no not all peace terms are unreasonable as most can be negotiated. Ya'll already stated it is 1 month period. no negotiations nothing. There is a huge difference there mate and ya'lls attempt at not only lying but spinning !@#$ is retarded.

Also, you did not answer my question- if the only offer to GOONS was to become an eternal tech farm would ya'll accept or would you fight on but state that it was GOONS causing their own eternal war for not accepting the term? I would like an answer please.

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301940799' post='2684078']
We've already been doing this (discussing possible alternatives), but this still doesn't solve the problem I mentioned. Just as easily as their side can say "You're only giving us terms you know we won't accept," if they're going "We won't accept anything but white peace," then this entire effort is pointless for everyone involved. It can equally be either side's fault that peace isn't happening. So if we're going to be blamed for one extreme, realize it can be the other extreme and NPO's fault just as well.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL11.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Nope, you attacked NPO without just cause and thus, it is entirely your fault. It is DH's fault this war started to begin with and thus, it is DH's fault this war continues.

NPO is literally the victim in this mess, something most (like me) choked on having to defend them at first. But truth is, NPO is the victim of DH aggression. Period. That is complete fact, to state anything else is a complete lie.

Now since NPO was attacked based on the Polar-VE war, it should have been considered a periphery war since the only main front was Polar-VE. Which means that white peace should have been had for all.

Instead, despite being "hit" due to the Polar-VE war, DH made it a main front thus ensuring they get to ask for terms. Then when the Polar-VE war ended and with that so did DH's reason for the war, DH did not end the war, instead they continued with asking for the ability to demolish NPO's upper tier for a month.

So yes, this war should have been a periphery war which means NPO would have been given white peace once the Polar-VE war ended. So yes, since DH made this war a main front instead of periphery and are forcing a term they know won't be accepted, it is entirely DH's fault that this war continues and if it continues 2 years from now, it would still be entirely DH's fault that it did. There is no one else to blame for that but DH (well and FAN for also attacking, though it appears FAN does not even want to be in on your terms to end the war).

[Beefspari]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1301941638' post='2684084']
Sure, it's partly the fault of NPO and co for being so stubborn but let's face it, it's mostly the fault of DH and co for starting this whole mess and that's why we are here today, in a circular argument. You stopped NPO from entering on the PB-NpO front ([i]if they where going to anyway is still debatable[/i]), so that's mission accomplished right? Why do you [i]need[/i] them to fight with their upper teirs?
[/quote]
This has been discussed and answered about sixty quadrillion times. I'm pretty sure it's even been answered to you. The answer, once again, is that the war would be over had they fought in the war. The peace mode strategy is not one that planet Bob can condone or allow to be used in future wars. Thus, we're putting a stop to it now.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL8.jpg[/img]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1301941878' post='2684086']
You seriously thought that NPO would be retarded enough to accept a term that would neuter them for well over a year? Seriously...... that is some of the dumbest !@#$ I have ever heard. This term due to this situation (with NPO's upper tier being not only so heavily out numbered by so heavily out teched) that this is DH either demanding the complete destruction or eternal war. No alliance in their right mind would have their upper tier get completely demolished willingly.
[/quote]
If one month of war is all it would take to [i][b]utterly destroy all of NPO[/b][/i] and [i][b]completely neuter them for over a year[/b][/i], then they really are awful. Do they not have a single dollar in any of their warchests, or what? They'd have no way whatsoever to recover lost infra or tech? DH could inflict an entire year's worth of damage in 30 days? Even discounting the damage they could inflict in return and the relative difference between the alliances at the end of the conflict? Are they really so unfathomably terrible that all their nations couldn't possibly recover from being attacked for a few weeks?
[right][img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeriso_oR8.jpg[/img][/right]

Edited April 4, 2011 by Beefspari

[Beefspari]

edit: double

Edited April 4, 2011 by Beefspari

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301941887' post='2684087']
This has been discussed and answered about sixty quadrillion times. I'm pretty sure it's even been answered to you. The answer, once again, is that the war would be over had they fought in the war. The peace mode strategy is not one that planet Bob can condone or allow to be used in future wars. Thus, we're putting a stop to it now.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL8.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Except, I could have sworn that NPO has lost several million NS, which means they did fight in the war. So is that DH lying again or just being retarded again? Also, when did DH think they can speak for all of Planet Bob? We get that you don't like the tactic but from what I can tell, most of Planet Bob does not care one way or the other. So please don't go wannabe messiah on us as it is !@#$%^&* and just another lie from DH.

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301941887' post='2684087']
This has been discussed and answered about sixty quadrillion times. I'm pretty sure it's even been answered to you. The answer, once again, is that the war would be over had they fought in the war. The peace mode strategy is not one that planet Bob can condone or allow to be used in future wars. Thus, we're putting a stop to it now.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL8.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
Are you seriously telling me now that you are trying to dictate the flow of how people should run their nations when attacked? Good lord you guys never stop do you? Oh and here's something rather interesting: 36 of your nations are in peace mode in your aggressive war.

Are those 36 nations not yours?

Edited April 4, 2011 by William Bonney

[The Crimson King]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301941887' post='2684087']

If one month of war is all it would take to [i][b]utterly destroy all of NPO[/b][/i] and [i][b]completely neuter them for over a year[/b][/i], then they really are awful. Do they not have a single dollar in any of their warchests, or what? They'd have no way whatsoever to recover lost infra or tech? DH could inflict an entire year's worth of damage in 30 days? Even discounting the damage they could inflict in return and the relative difference between the alliances at the end of the conflict? Are they really so unfathomably terrible that all their nations couldn't possibly recover from being attacked for a few weeks?
[right][img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeriso_oR8.jpg[/img][/right]
[/quote]

The argument that will be utterly destroyed is far more viable in a quantitative sense than your side's insistence that this same top tier, which consists of a total of 9 nations over 100k NS (or we can add another 10 nations to that count if we drop the bar to 80k)pose a long term strategic threat to the security of DH and therefore must be dealt with now.

[Iceknave]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301941887' post='2684087']
If one month of war is all it would take to [i][b]utterly destroy all of NPO[/b][/i] and [i][b]completely neuter them for over a year[/b][/i], then they really are awful. Do they not have a single dollar in any of their warchests, or what? They'd have no way whatsoever to recover lost infra or tech? DH could inflict an entire year's worth of damage in 30 days? Even discounting the damage they could inflict in return and the relative difference between the alliances at the end of the conflict? Are they really so unfathomably terrible that all their nations couldn't possibly recover from being attacked for a few weeks?
[/quote]
Sigh, the one month of war term against NPO's upper tier was suggested before during Karma. I've had a few links in my signature since around the end of Karma, regarding the impact of forcing NPO's upper tier into war mode, given conditions similar to those proposed by DH. The numbers would be off a bit since the alliance has changed a bit since then, but the basic idea is the same.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1301942352' post='2684092']
Are you seriously telling me now that you are trying to dictate the flow of how people should run their nations when attacked? Good lord you guys never stop do you? Oh and here's something rather interesting: 36 of your nations are in peace mode in your aggressive war.

Are those 36 nations not yours?
[/quote]
36 nations (~8% of our alliance) in peace for less than a week because they're restocking nukes is not the same thing as 193 nations (~39% of NPO) in peace, a large portion of which have been there for more than a month (or two) to avoid fighting entirely. All peace mode uses are not equal. But nice try.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris9_9L2.jpg[/img]

[LittleRena]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301941887' post='2684087']
The peace mode strategy is not one that planet Bob can condone or allow to be used in future wars. Thus, we're putting a stop to it now.
[/quote]

Did DoomHouse do a survey of what Bob thinks?
[right][IMG]http://i56.tinypic.com/10qjk85.jpg[/IMG][/right]

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301942897' post='2684096']
36 nations (~8% of our alliance) in peace for less than a week because they're restocking nukes is not the same thing as 193 nations (~39% of NPO) in peace, a large portion of which have been there for more than a month (or two) to avoid fighting entirely. All peace mode uses are not equal. But nice try.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris9_9L2.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
Yes your right, its only allowed when you do it. How silly of me your highness.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301933631' post='2684029']
Thank you for utterly dismissing the points I mentioned just to make an unrelated jab. However, you bring up an interesting point. Let's look at the facts on this "DH will obviously say neener neener after NPO does their fake peace terms" argument.

One, these reps you just mentioned going to GOONs won't happen until after the conflict,[/quote]

Stop there. So you have already demanded payment for damaged that are result of an offensive war. Epic.

[quote]If anything our record for this sort of thing is pretty solid.[/quote]

Indeed, which is why you are being called to task. Past performance, current demands.

[quote]So please, drop this idiotic propaganda that we won't be giving NPO peace after they meet our peace terms. It only makes you look like William up there; repeating moronic arguments no matter what.[/quote]

Of course you'd like NPO to drop out of the war, that would mean its allies would be left in the wind to be picked at until they concede and pay you. Please.

You're e-lawyers, not warriors. The rest of DH wants to be able to come out of the war saying they never demanded reparations from NPO. The mantra will be repeated whenever the war comes up in the future and when people point out the billions in cash and tech equivalent that were demanded of some of the allies of NPO and NpO, there will be an attempt made to justify it or brush it under the rug as inconsequential. If going along with the rest of the DH on the NPO portion means you get their support for your other "punitive damage" claims against others, then the law firm of GOONS, GOONS, and GOON wins.

You really want to prove me wrong? Drop the reparations demands from NPO's allies next time you pretend to go talk peace. You might even get the war over faster...or does that prospect scare you?

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301941887' post='2684087']
This has been discussed and answered about sixty quadrillion times. I'm pretty sure it's even been answered to you. The answer, once again, is that the war would be over had they fought in the war. The peace mode strategy is not one that planet Bob can condone or allow to be used in future wars. Thus, we're putting a stop to it now.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL8.jpg[/img]


If one month of war is all it would take to [i][b]utterly destroy all of NPO[/b][/i] and [i][b]completely neuter them for over a year[/b][/i], then they really are awful. Do they not have a single dollar in any of their warchests, or what? They'd have no way whatsoever to recover lost infra or tech? DH could inflict an entire year's worth of damage in 30 days? Even discounting the damage they could inflict in return and the relative difference between the alliances at the end of the conflict? Are they really so unfathomably terrible that all their nations couldn't possibly recover from being attacked for a few weeks?
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It would take them well over a year to regain the tech they would lose in that single month and you know it. With aid slots the way they are (i.e. maxed at only 50 tech per slot), a nation can only typically gain 7200 tech per year and I would almost guarantee that NPO's upper tier would lose that and more. So stop pretending like they are that awful, it is getting quite stupid that you (hopefully) pretend such ignorance about how aid slots and tech gaining works. Regaining infra is all well and good but next to tech it is almost useless except to give you a WC. They would be neutered simply because they would be even farther behind DH or anyone else for that matter, that when DH hits them again, they would be crushed again.

As for the damage returned, with the fact that NPO/et al are heavily outnumbered in the upper tiers (particularly even moreso now with FOK/VE involved in the war) that the damage done by NPO/et al would be spread out amongst many nations. Thus, they may inflict the same amount of damage (though I would venture a guess that this amount would only last 3-4 days due to nukes but once NPO/et al begin running out of nukes, the damage would be nowhere close) it would be for a very short span of time and afterwords they would not be inflicting near the same amount. Not to mention given the fact that DH/et al heavily outnumber their opponents in upper tier nations, ya'll have the ability of swapping nations in and out of war thus, minimizing the amount of damage done.

So please stop. No one is as retarded as ya'll keep making us out to be. No one believes your !@#$%^&* as most can see the stats and know how war works in CN. Not to mention most know how aid slots work and the limited amount of tech that can be imported per month.

Though given the prevalence of this argument by your side, I am stunned that ya'll may actually be stupid enough to not know how aid slots work or how much tech can actually be imported in a month. (hint- it is only 900 tech per month maximum and there is no way around it unless NPO figures out a way to recruit 50 new nations to CN to gain 1000 tech maximum)

[Williambonney]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1301942935' post='2684097']
Did DoomHouse do a survey of what Bob thinks?
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They did send a surveyor to my nation but they haven't been seen since. No one knows what happened. Excuse me while I tend to my garden.

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301942897' post='2684096']
36 nations (~8% of our alliance) in peace for less than a week because they're restocking nukes is not the same thing as 193 nations (~39% of NPO) in peace, a large portion of which have been there for more than a month (or two) to avoid fighting entirely. All peace mode uses are not equal. But nice try.
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Must you continuously lie? Of your current top 50 nations in PM, none have been there less than 2 weeks. Most of them have been there since February and one since January.

Peace mode has been used in every war on PB for years. It will continue to be used unless people are just complete idiots no matter how much crying and foot stomping DH does about it.

[speakerwire]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1301946797' post='2684127']Peace mode has been used in every war on PB for years. It will continue to be used unless people are just complete idiots no matter how much crying and foot stomping DH does about it.
[/quote]

I think the main issue getting in the way of politics here is the posturing our esteemed Pacific friends.

You know, the part where alot of impolite things are said via an assortment of media outlets and when the offended party comes along to test those words - the agitator hides behind others.

As things stand now, over a third of NPO are in peace mode, almost a third are in a state of anarchy (granted, some of these ~thirds overlap). A method to reach an uneasy peace has been extended and ignored - and instead the majority of the people currently fighting under NPOs flag seem to be the newer 'meatshield nations' which the core of NPO has a hard time providing aid to (assuming they are actually making a good faith effort).

Some nations have started to wisen up though, the numbers of folks within NPO have started to fluxuate. Rebuilding structures is so much easier than trying to convice jaded nations to come fight for you again at a later date.