A Statement from Doomhouse

[Borsche]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1301924156' post='2683975']
Don't waste your breath. Even if NPO puts its people out for the firing squad as requested, that still won't end the war. There's always a "and the following additional terms...". That's why they are all still fighting. The OP is a propaganda piece. It always was.
[/quote]

It's really cute that you believe this. NPO wouldn't have to "put its people out for the firing squad". They simply have to fight on fair terms for an acceptable amount of time.

It is akin to forcing the general to fight with his men. The fact that the 'general' in this situation (the upper echelons in peace mode, and what seems to be the entirety of Legion) is outright refusing to fight with his men is laughable at best and dishonorable at worst. And, frankly, in terms of war strategy it is just idiotic considering the upper echelons on the side of Doomhouse are free to deliver aid without any retribution at all.

[bkphysics]

[quote name='Borsche' timestamp='1301925218' post='2683978']
It's really cute that you believe this. NPO wouldn't have to "put its people out for the firing squad". They simply have to fight on fair terms for an acceptable amount of time.

It is akin to forcing the general to fight with his men. The fact that the 'general' in this situation (the upper echelons in peace mode, and what seems to be the entirety of Legion) is outright refusing to fight with his men is laughable at best and dishonorable at worst. And, frankly, in terms of war strategy it is just idiotic considering the upper echelons on the side of Doomhouse are free to deliver aid without any retribution at all.
[/quote]

Holy crap I am getting Deja Vu circa a few years ago ...

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1301924156' post='2683975']
Don't waste your breath. Even if NPO puts its people out for the firing squad as requested, that still won't end the war. There's always a "and the following additional terms...". That's why they are all still fighting. The OP is a propaganda piece. It always was.
[/quote]
Let's see:

As it is, the public offer is this:
1)NPO and co. leave peace, suffer a month of "complete warfare".
2)NPO and co. then receive peace with no terms.

Assuming you are right about it, however, the offer becomes:
1)NPO and co. leave peace, suffer a month of "complete warfare".
2)NPO and co. are imposed surrender terms (which they can always refuse).

However, if you are of that mindset - and I don't necessarily blame you for it -, here is your only alternative:
1)NPO and co. keep on waging war for longer than a month.
2)NPO and co. end up with imposed surrender terms.

Their situation doesn't improve. Sure, they do keep a certain number of nations intact but those nations are under heavy Peace Mode penalties and cannot really grow. Moreover, the might of a nation is important only in terms of projected power. In this case, it is nullified by the simple fact that, should they decide to use it for any reason (aka leave peace mode), they would get counter-attacked immediatly. They can always hope for a change in the political world, one that would permit them to safely escape their current predicament but I don't see it happening in the next six to ten months, at least.

Simply put, should they decide to go with option 1, in one month from now, they will have the same projected power they hold right now but they would be in a much better political and military position for two reasons:
1)They would force the hand of Doomhouse: either honor your word or suffer a massive PR hit, one which could sway fringe alliances against them.
2)They would have nothing left to lose and would vastly outnumber their foes in the low, very low tier. They could easily opt to wage permanent war from that point on. Morale is much better in an alliance or a coalition if everyone suffers equally and is in the same situation.

Now, it's up to them to decide but that would be my analysis. By stonewalling as they are, they are gaining nothing and their position is weakening with every passing day.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1301924156' post='2683975']
Don't waste your breath. Even if NPO puts its people out for the firing squad as requested, that still won't end the war. There's always a "and the following additional terms...". That's why they are all still fighting. The OP is a propaganda piece. It always was.
[/quote]
This paranoid line of reasoning that agreed-upon peace terms won't lead to peace could be applied to literally any war that was ever fought, and it still wouldn't hold water. The idea that we would put a peace offer on the table and then laugh evilly as we keep attacking anyway after the terms are fulfilled is nothing more than propaganda itself.
[right][img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisfffR2.jpg[/img][/right]

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301930329' post='2684005']
This paranoid line of reasoning that agreed-upon peace terms won't lead to peace could be applied to literally any war that was ever fought, and it still wouldn't hold water. The idea that we would put a peace offer on the table and then laugh evilly as we keep attacking anyway after the terms are fulfilled is nothing more than propaganda itself.
[right][img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisfffR2.jpg[/img][/right]
[/quote]
Is it really? Considering that you guys
a) complained for years about everything NPO was and fought so hard against them
b) fought a global conflict to change everything NPO stood for
c) did a complete 180 with this no cb war
d) have constantly flip flopped and flat out lied to everyone to come up with an excuse for this war that still holds no ground

If anything I'd have to conclude that you guys are either
a) dumb
b) lunatics
c) liars
d) both b and c
e) all of the above

[Borsche]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1301930782' post='2684006']
Is it really? Considering that you guys
a) complained for years about everything NPO was and fought so hard against them
b) fought a global conflict to change everything NPO stood for
c) did a complete 180 with this no cb war
d) have constantly flip flopped and flat out lied to everyone to come up with an excuse for this war that still holds no ground

If anything I'd have to conclude that you guys are either
a) dumb
b) lunatics
c) liars
d) both b and c
e) all of the above
[/quote]

There is no need to be so rude. The fact of the matter is that NPO deserves this.

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Borsche' timestamp='1301931005' post='2684008']
There is no need to be so rude. The fact of the matter is that NPO deserves this.
[/quote]
I don't see how that is being rude, and fact is an opinion based on proof. I've seen no reason to show NPO deserves anything they have put up with for the past few years. I have heard many "stories", not a one even nearly proven. Only thing I've seen is people whine and complain about things NPO has done which were no different from what they themselves were doing. In my opinion if anyone deserves a beatdown its the rest of you. Mind you this holds little effect coming from an NPO member, but even if I was still in USN, MA, FUN, FoB, Echelon or anywhere else I'd still think the same way.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1301926378' post='2683981']
Now, it's up to them to decide but that would be my analysis. By stonewalling as they are, they are gaining nothing and their position is weakening with every passing day.[/quote]

Perhaps...but you've looked better too.

[quote name='Borsche' timestamp='1301925218' post='2683978']
It's really cute that you believe this. NPO wouldn't have to "put its people out for the firing squad". They simply have to fight on fair terms for an acceptable amount of time.

It is akin to forcing the general to fight with his men. The fact that the 'general' in this situation (the upper echelons in peace mode, and what seems to be the entirety of Legion) is outright refusing to fight with his men is laughable at best and dishonorable at worst. And, frankly, in terms of war strategy it is just idiotic considering the upper echelons on the side of Doomhouse are free to deliver aid without any retribution at all.[/quote]

I don't think anyone is laughing...they can however do math.

Consider my nation. At 8,575.05 tech it would rate #2 in NPO, and #1 in Legion. On the other hand, it would also rate #61 in Umbrella and #19 in MK.

Low tech, high infra nations make nice soft targets for tech heavy nations with WRCs. NPO knows this or at least should know it. So it is actually better for them to wait you out if they can at all. It ruins your "fun", but I'm pretty sure they don't think they exist to be a source of your fun. You can accept that and leave annoyed or continue besieging the castle.

FYI: If I were fighting the NPO side of this war, I would have done certain things very differently from the beginning. However, they are where they are and under the circumstances their options at this point are limited.

Also...my previous post spoke of the terms for NPO's allies as well as NPO's terms. Surely you aren't stupid enough to demand huge tech reparations and cash from them are you? Let me guess...you already made the demand.

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301930329' post='2684005']
This paranoid line of reasoning that agreed-upon peace terms won't lead to peace could be applied to literally any war that was ever fought, and it still wouldn't hold water. The idea that we would put a peace offer on the table and then laugh evilly as we keep attacking anyway after the terms are fulfilled is nothing more than propaganda itself.[/quote]

The law firm of GOONS, GOONS, and GOON is far too busy preparing legal briefs for the billions in damages they have/intend to demand to be concerned about why they are laughing.

Edited April 4, 2011 by ChairmanHal

[Borsche]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1301931368' post='2684009']
I don't see how that is being rude, and fact is an opinion based on proof. I've seen no reason to show NPO deserves anything they have put up with for the past few years. I have heard many "stories", not a one even nearly proven. Only thing I've seen is people whine and complain about things NPO has done which were no different from what they themselves were doing. In my opinion if anyone deserves a beatdown its the rest of you. Mind you this holds little effect coming from an NPO member, but even if I was still in USN, MA, FUN, FoB, Echelon or anywhere else I'd still think the same way.
[/quote]

Ah yes. NPO is the poor, pathetic, innocent alliance. And of course I say this as a former member of the NAAC (rip). Of course, beyond that, VietFAN, GOONland resistance, GPA's curbstomping; none of this really happened did it?

[HalfEmpty]

[quote name='+Zeke+' timestamp='1301782423' post='2683081']
Just a trainwreck?

More like a trainwreck of toxic flammable pesticides that caught fire resulting in a ruptured natural gas line, resulting in a huge explosion that caused a massive sinkhole that swallowed the burning toxic neighborhood, resulting in a weak spot on the local plate fault lines, resulting in an earthquake that caused also caused a tsunami and massive loss of coastal infrastructure, resulting in a huge global economic meltdown, resulting in a global nuclear war, resulting in spinning the planet off its axis into the sun, resulting in the sun going critical into a nova, killing all life for many light years in every direction. Yeah, that kind of trainwreck.....
[/quote]

And there's a baby kitty on the track right ahead!

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Borsche' timestamp='1301932059' post='2684014']
Ah yes. NPO is the poor, pathetic, innocent alliance. And of course I say this as a former member of the NAAC (rip). Of course, beyond that, VietFAN, GOONland resistance, GPA's curbstomping; none of this really happened did it?
[/quote]
Yes it did as a matter of fact. What of all the things you guys did, and for what exactly? Seems no one wants to talk about that for some reason. Was it for justice? Honour? Security? Freedom? Please, do tell.

[Borsche]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1301932672' post='2684020']
Yes it did as a matter of fact. What of all the things you guys did, and for what exactly? Seems no one wants to talk about that for some reason. Was it for justice? Honour? Security? Freedom? Please, do tell.
[/quote]

'We' didn't do anything. I wasn't a part of the original GOONS, and I do not condone that behavior. Not to mention that the current GOONS are structured completely differently from the previous alliance. Please get your history correct or refrain from making ignorant statements.

But the main point here isn't what 'they' did. They were forced to disband which I think perhaps suited their crimes. Regardless, it doesn't absolve NPO of their crimes at all.

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Borsche' timestamp='1301933074' post='2684025']
'We' didn't do anything. I wasn't a part of the original GOONS, and I do not condone that behavior. Not to mention that the current GOONS are structured completely differently from the previous alliance. Please get your history correct or refrain from making ignorant statements.

But the main point here isn't what 'they' did. They were forced to disband which I think perhaps suited their crimes. Regardless, it doesn't absolve NPO of their crimes at all.
[/quote]
Nor was I a member of NPO then, and yet here I am facing this ridiculous nonsense. So if you're obsolved for any past doings your side did, how are the rest of us not? You yourself may not have been part of that previous behaviour, but your side sure did and haven't changed at all from what I've seen. This current situation shows exactly how much you guys haven't changed and are still obsessed with the past.

Edited April 4, 2011 by William Bonney

[Beefspari]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1301930782' post='2684006']
Is it really? Considering that you guys
a) complained for years about everything NPO was and fought so hard against them
b) fought a global conflict to change everything NPO stood for
c) did a complete 180 with this no cb war
d) have constantly flip flopped and flat out lied to everyone to come up with an excuse for this war that still holds no ground

If anything I'd have to conclude that you guys are either
a) dumb
b) lunatics
c) liars
d) both b and c
e) all of the above
[/quote]
None of these have [i][b]anything[/b][/i] to do with honoring the peace terms we set on a table. And for the one [i][b]trillionth[/b][/i] time, this is not a no-CB war. You can keep spouting that if you want to, but it only makes you look like a closed-ears idiot. This "noCB" thing is just even more propaganda (more of the same from your side).
[right][img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-R3.jpg[/img][/right]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1301931601' post='2684011']
The law firm of GOONS, GOONS, and GOON is far too busy preparing legal briefs for the billions in damages they have/intend to demand to be concerned about why they are laughing.
[/quote]
Thank you for utterly dismissing the points I mentioned just to make an unrelated jab. However, you bring up an interesting point. Let's look at the facts on this "DH will obviously say neener neener after NPO does their fake peace terms" argument.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris9_9L1.jpg[/img]

One, these reps you just mentioned going to GOONs won't happen until after the conflict, so if we just kept beating up NPO we wouldn't get any of those reps would we? So it would be pointless for us to even be discussing them with people, or at the very least, for you to make jokes about us getting billions because we aren't getting them according to you. Two, we've never gone back on our peace terms being offered. We've let tons of people off based on exactly what we said we would. Numerous people have left this conflict on the terms we gave; we've let dozens of rogues and microalliances free, even Methrage twice. If anything our record for this sort of thing is pretty solid. Three, nobody would let us just keep beating up NPO after we said we'd end it. Forget Karma 2.0 or alliances re-entering, even Pandora's Box wouldn't allow us to do that. It would be political suicide for us to go back on our word. So unless you think we're stupid enough to sign our own death warrants, we won't be doing that. And if you do, then you should be all for it.
[right][img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisfffR9.jpg[/img][/right]

So please, drop this idiotic propaganda that we won't be giving NPO peace after they meet our peace terms. It only makes you look like William up there; repeating moronic arguments no matter what.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL6.jpg[/img]

[Borsche]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1301933461' post='2684028']
Nor was I a member of NPO then, and yet here I am facing this ridiculous nonsense. So if you're obsolved for any past doings your side did, how are the rest of us not? You yourself may not have been part of that previous behaviour, but your side sure did and haven't changed at all from what I've seen. This current situation shows exactly how much you guys haven't changed and are still obsessed with the past.
[/quote]

GOONS is 'absolved' because they aren't the same alliance! How is this hard for you to understand? If the Goon Order of Neutral Shoving came back, then I would consider them to be just as despicable. However, this is the Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism.

On the other hand, this is the same NPO. The same leadership, the same structure. The same NPO, with the same crimes.

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Borsche' timestamp='1301933708' post='2684031']
GOONS is 'absolved' because they aren't the same alliance! How is this hard for you to understand? If the Goon Order of Neutral Shoving came back, then I would consider them to be just as despicable. However, this is the Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism.

On the other hand, this is the same NPO. The same leadership, the same structure. The same NPO, with the same crimes.
[/quote]
Oi...Moldavi is gone. Dilber is gone. Moo is no longer emperor. Almost entirely new IO's and regent. Your name may be different but your behaviour is still exactly the same. The only thing same about the NPO from your argument is that we are still New Pacific Order and still have the same government structure. Are you going to tell me that this entire war is because our name hasn't changed or that you would like to see our government restructured because [i]you[/i] don't like it? If anything that would lead to the conclusion that eternal war is what's in store....you wouldn't want everyone to think that now would you?

[LittleRena]

[quote name='Borsche' timestamp='1301932059' post='2684014']
Ah yes. NPO is the poor, pathetic, innocent alliance. And of course I say this as a former member of the NAAC (rip). Of course, beyond that, VietFAN, GOONland resistance, GPA's curbstomping; none of this really happened did it?
[/quote]

Are we just picking at NPOs history? Let's not forget [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=14358]Umbrella took part in the GPA war[/url] and so did [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=14394]VE[/url], are you planning on punishing them for that war? Or is it okay for them because they are your buddies?
[right][IMG]http://i54.tinypic.com/2uihd9w.jpg[/IMG][/right]

[SADeki]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1301930782' post='2684006']
Is it really? Considering that you guys
a) complained for years about everything NPO was and fought so hard against them
b) fought a global conflict to change everything NPO stood for
c) did a complete 180 with this no cb war
d) have constantly flip flopped and flat out lied to everyone to come up with an excuse for this war that still holds no ground

If anything I'd have to conclude that you guys are either
a) dumb
b) lunatics
c) liars
d) both b and c
e) all of the above
[/quote]

I love how your only argument boils down to "Doomhouse is just as bad as we are! We know what they'll do because we did it first!".

[Varianz]

[quote name='Borsche' timestamp='1301932059' post='2684014']
Ah yes. NPO is the poor, pathetic, innocent alliance. And of course I say this as a former member of the NAAC (rip). Of course, beyond that, VietFAN, GOONland resistance, GPA's curbstomping; none of this really happened did it?
[/quote]
That was years ago, under different leadership, and they already got beat down in Karma for it. And has been previously mentioned, other alliances now on your side took part in those events. Planning to roll VE next?

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Deki' timestamp='1301935984' post='2684042']
I love how your only argument boils down to "Doomhouse is just as bad as we are! We know what they'll do because we did it first!".
[/quote]
That's were you'd be incorrect, my argument boils down to you guys are even worse, and your only objective is to win a game you know you can't win, and yet still try by any means neccessary even though you don't give a darn about anything or anyone but yourselves and your precious infra.

I wonder if we ever met in real life, would you guys look like this?

[img]http://www.serkis.com/images/9983.jpg[/img]

Edited April 4, 2011 by William Bonney

[Beefspari]

For the record I don't think this "You're the same," "No [i][b]you're[/b][/i] the same" argument is going to get us anywhere.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL7.jpg[/img]

[LittleRena]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1301936506' post='2684046']
For the record I don't think this "You're the same," "No [i][b]you're[/b][/i] the same" argument is going to get us anywhere.
[/quote]
I think it's getting us as far as this war is.
[right][IMG]http://i52.tinypic.com/vzf29g.jpg[/IMG][/right]

[Sardonic]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1301936246' post='2684045']
That's were you'd be incorrect, my argument boils down to you guys are even worse, and your only objective is to win a game you know you can't win, and yet still try by any means neccessary even though you don't give a darn about anything or anyone but yourselves.
[/quote]

Stop putting words in our mouth. We care deeply for the well-being of our allies and our coalition. We are not so selfish as to ignore the opinions of our allies. As to "even worse", don't even go there. You can claim to have changed all you want, but what were are doing now is nothing, NOTHING, compared to the immorality of the NPO at its peak.

OOC: As to "winning the game", there has been no discussion anywhere among PB or DH about "winning the game". Why do you try to explain our actions this way I ask? It was never our private or public objective to do as such.

[Hadrian]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1301858533' post='2683531']
No, hes saying if your not silent you risk showing the world how stupid you all truly are.

A wise man once said "'Tis better to remain silent and appear wise, than to open your mouth and dispel all doubt".

Or to put it in simpler terms, trash talk all you want, but don't be surprised if people hold the trash talk against you in later interactions. Exercising freedom of speech also means claiming responsibility for your words.
[/quote]
Mark Twain. And please, tell that to GOONS.

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1301936731' post='2684048']
Stop putting words in our mouth. We care deeply for the well-being of our allies and our coalition. We are not so selfish as to ignore the opinions of our allies. As to "even worse", don't even go there. You can claim to have changed all you want, but what were are doing now is nothing, NOTHING, compared to the immorality of the NPO at its peak.

OOC: As to "winning the game", there has been no discussion anywhere among PB or DH about "winning the game". Why do you try to explain our actions this way I ask? It was never our private or public objective to do as such.
[/quote]

[quote]At long last the dream of the Kingdom and Doomhouse grows manifest--that we may have a world free of the cruel emotion and crippling condemnation that so dominates our past. That we may fight with one another in the pursuance of strategic goals without everlasting annihilation. That we may live without those who set the standards of misery and fear that so long ruled us, that so long required retribution.[/quote]

Straight from the op. Does that mean goons will be gone? The s does stand for sadism does it not?

And of course lets not forget the FANtastic display in our embassies, and everything they've done over the past few years in cn.

Or even just a overview of mk's proud history from their wiki page?

Umbrella's complete lack of character flaws?

VE's great and noble tradition?

Yeah, we are such scum, [b]shame[/b] on us.

Edited April 4, 2011 by William Bonney