Daimos Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300110827' post='2664502'] Now a day after this thread was made the polar part of the war draws to a close and suddenly this thread make a lot more sense. Good old NPO you amuse me so. [/quote] Thank you for making me laugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1300111785' post='2664519'] I mean, it's OK if you want to be the Doomhouse Methrage, I guess. [/quote] That really hurts coming from you Haflinger. I still find the timing interesting. Maybe it's just a coincidence but I'd hardly call the observation absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka the Great Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1300074588' post='2664076'] The apology was sincere for the time in which it was given. Even your limited capacity for clear and rational political thought can appreciate that the situation in the Cyberverse can change dramatically over a span of 6-7 months, which was the time between the apology being made, in which I outlined that my position was still correct even if the end result was somewhat questionable, and when I rescinded it. [/quote] In the universe I inhabit an apology is either sincere or it is not. One either regrets an action or one does not. An apology cannot be rescinded and still be regarded as having once been sincere. I see the point you're trying to make, though. You regard your phony apology as being the equivalent of saying something like, "I'm sorry you got angry when I called you stupid." It does not express regret for the initial action, but rather that the action proved to be so offensive to someone. This is all a roundabout way of saying that you have confirmed my original point that your apology was not sincere but rather a bit of cold, calculating [i]realpolitik[/i] you engaged in but which you rejected the moment you were able to safely do so. This 'apology' presented here may reasonably be viewed in the same insincere, hypocritical light. Thank you for that. On a side note, I must say that I very much enjoy the "superiority schtick" you keep pulling in discussions. It's very funny on many levels. [quote name='WarLaw' timestamp='1300078589' post='2664176'] Also I don't care who posts in this thread or on this public forum as I don't read them. [/quote] ....he said when replying to a comment in this thread. You get a laughing turnip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Salovega VI Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Heft' timestamp='1300093868' post='2664362'] It never was like that, not to the hyperbolic degree he's trying to depict. The narrative of the Evil NPO that can never be trusted with power only works if people believe that NPO is somehow intrinsically evil and acts out of some malevolent spirit rather than being a once-very-powerful alliance with an array of internal issues that acted out of material self-interest. The idea that NPO would just routinely pick an ally to go and kill was always exceptionally dumb. [/quote] And yet multiple examples (GPA, FAN, former members of CIS, etc.) come readily come to mind. What you call hyperbole, NPO's victims call history. [quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1300094184' post='2664363'] Does talking out of your ass fascinate you that much? [/quote] WOW! What a totally original comeback! I am sure that the entire world will now stand in awe of your oratory skills. Edited March 14, 2011 by Antonio Salovega VI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velka Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 I'm enjoying this all a great deal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 I seem to recall NPO issuing a lot of apologies pre and post Karma War... I'm not seeing a rationale for yet another apology. Either FAN is willing to forgive or not. This should have been a joint statement or it shouldn't have been. An apology to a party unwilling to forgive is as much a waste of time as an insincere apology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Kilkenny' timestamp='1300068883' post='2663914'] The problem with that is this. The people who dislike them will accept nothing that NPO does as change. Everything they do is either a PR ploy, too little too late, isn't enough or is too much. At this point why should they even try??? I mean what could they do that would be accepted by you and those that hate them?? Seriously, they can't win either way. Edit: And yet they do try, and even posted this knowing the reaction. Props to them, cause it would drive me batty. [/quote] I don't think the NPO has ever been accused of trying to do too much to change. I cannot think of an example of what they have done to convince us they've changed, except for this two year late apology. I don't believe this apology is sincere, I also don't believe this is them trying to show us they've changed. Why? Because of the timing of it. Why didn't they apologise two years ago when it would have actually mattered more to FAN? Why do they choose to apologise now when FAN are shooting at their heads? Edited March 14, 2011 by Johnny Apocalypse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffron X Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 FAN doesn't have a gun to our head, FAN is shooting a gun at our head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Doomee Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1300072875' post='2664019'] I will request your request be accommodated. [/quote] I made no request sir. All I did was state two facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Geoffron X' timestamp='1300120698' post='2664632'] FAN doesn't have a gun to our head, FAN is shooting a gun at our head. [/quote] There. I've edited my post, perhaps now one of you can answer the questions instead of trying to avoid them. Edited March 14, 2011 by Johnny Apocalypse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R&R-Viking Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 I really hope this war lasts as long, I like both sides in this conflict as much as I did those involved with VietFAN. Keep slugging away, everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1300120333' post='2664623']I seem to recall NPO issuing a lot of apologies pre and post Karma War...[/quote] You recall wrong. Only one apology was given, on our own accords-- to GATO. [quote]I'm not seeing a rationale for yet another apology.[/quote] Only second in our history, which was made on our own accord. The rationale is simple-- it was deserved, and yes it took us all this to realize it. History will not change, there is no magical fix here, war will rage on but something that we needed to do was finally done. Now what you think of it, is completely irrelevant to me or anybody in NPO. While public, the apology is directed only at FAN-- if they do not care for it much, it is understandable. If third parties do not, it is of no consequence to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefspari Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Geoffron X' timestamp='1300120698' post='2664632'] FAN doesn't have a gun to our head, FAN is shooting a gun at our head. [/quote] All the more reason to throw your hands up and pretend you're sorry, before you get killed. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1300074588' post='2664076'] The apology was sincere for the time in which it was given. Even your limited capacity for clear and rational political thought can appreciate that the situation in the Cyberverse can change dramatically over a span of 6-7 months, which was the time between the apology being made, in which I outlined that my position was still correct even if the end result was somewhat questionable, and when I rescinded it. [/quote] So basically, an apology from a Pacifican Emperor is sincere up until the moment where he feels safe enough to rescind it. You really aren't helping your case. [quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1300111047' post='2664506'] Sounds alot like a certian green alliance, doesnt it? [/quote] Well it isn't quite the same. VE fought for a day or two and then disbanded, they didn't disband at the mere rumor of being attacked. Not a shining moment for them to be sure, but not quite as bad as CIS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrenster Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Antonio Salovega VI' timestamp='1300119542' post='2664607'] And yet multiple examples (GPA, FAN, former members of CIS, etc.) come readily come to mind. What you call hyperbole, NPO's victims call history. WOW! What a totally original comeback! I am sure that the entire world will now stand in awe of your oratory skills. [/quote] I have little to say to people who use incredibly absurd analogies and little logic to back up their points. No seriously, you have nothing to say for yourself other than literally talking out of your ass. You went off a premise that was entirely false to begin with (that we have traditionally betrayed tyrants so that democracy could flourish wtf?) and continued off that premise. That is what I call talking out of your ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nippy Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1300131193' post='2664802'] I have little to say to people who use incredibly absurd analogies and little logic to back up their points. No seriously, you have nothing to say for yourself other than literally talking out of your ass. You went off a premise that was entirely false to begin with (that we have traditionally betrayed tyrants so that democracy could flourish wtf?) and continued off that premise. That is what I call talking out of your ass. [/quote] talking out of your ass. talking out of your ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1300131193' post='2664802'] I have little to say to people who use incredibly absurd analogies and little logic to back up their points. No seriously, you have nothing to say for yourself other than [b]literally talking out of your ass.[/b] You went off a premise that was entirely false to begin with (that we have traditionally betrayed tyrants so that democracy could flourish wtf?) and continued off that premise. That is what I call talking out of your ass. [/quote] Literally Ace Ventura. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1300121586' post='2664651'] You recall wrong. Only one apology was given, on our own accords-- to GATO. Only second in our history, which was made on our own accord. The rationale is simple-- it was deserved, and yes it took us all this to realize it. History will not change, there is no magical fix here, war will rage on but something that we needed to do was finally done. Now what you think of it, is completely irrelevant to me or anybody in NPO. While public, the apology is directed only at FAN-- if they do not care for it much, it is understandable. If third parties do not, it is of no consequence to us. [/quote] [i]Pacifica, for these long six years, has been chasing these ideals through several emperors, several forms of government, and several citizens, all with the eyes of the world upon her. In our pursuit of Peace, Strength, and Prosperity, we have tried to be just, we have tried to be true, and we have tried to be fair. I state that we have accomplished great things, and we have accomplished terrible things. While sometimes we miss the mark of our code, I state that it is better to have a code difficult to adhere to than to have no code at all. Indeed, the protocols and standards pioneered by Pacificans are still the standard by which the world operates, and while we may not be the top alliance as scored by almighty Admin, our impact can not be denied. Though out this last year, I have learned many things. One is that just as we are capable of great accomplishments, we are capable of great mistakes. As such, I pray we all learn from them; I know I have. And as such, I hereby rededicate my alliance to our founding ideals of Peace, Strength, and Prosperity. I rededicate my alliance to achieving these ideals with a sense of justice, trueness and fairness.[/i] That speech was, in part, an apology for past behavior and not living up to your own standards, even if it did not apologize for anything in particular. What it was referencing was understood by all. No, if the OP makes people feel better about themselves, then have at it. But if everyone is going to start to apologize publicly for every bit of stupidity/arrogance/poor choice/unwarranted attack/etc. perpetrated upon another, this forum is going to become a giant confession booth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrenster Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300132223' post='2664813'] Literally Ace Ventura. [/quote] Sorry I don't get the reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Williambonney Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='nippy' timestamp='1300131953' post='2664809'] talking out of your ass. talking out of your ass. [/quote] Wow your maturity is astonishing, your mama must be real proud of you boy. [quote]So basically, an apology from a Pacifican Emperor is sincere up until the moment where he feels safe enough to rescind it. You really aren't helping your case.[/quote] I don't see what one has to do with the other, unless you wish to cause further disruption to this thread to suit your own agenda. Its not like you'd assume any new maroon alliances will try to take over the senate, would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Princess Doomee' timestamp='1300120882' post='2664636'] I made no request sir. All I did was state two facts. [/quote] All the same, the changes have been made to better reflect our intent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmightyGrub Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1300098321' post='2664398'] Hopefully, we get to disband you so it won't matter on an alliance-wide level. [/quote] You need to surrender the fantasy in order to get on with your shallow existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol Navy Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1300139102' post='2664945'] You need to surrender the fantasy in order to get on with your shallow existence. [/quote] He's just being hyperbolic and he knows it. The other side of the web would absolutely perish without the spectre of the Orders, especially Pacifica; around which their entire existence is defined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiderJerusalem Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1300140125' post='2664959'] especially Pacifica; around which their entire existence is defined. [/quote] Oh my... The irony... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1300138301' post='2664925'] I don't see what one has to do with the other, unless you wish to cause further disruption to this thread to suit your own agenda. Its not like you'd assume any new maroon alliances will try to take over the senate, would you? [/quote] I have no idea what you're trying to say, maroon alliances taking over the senate? What? Moldavi was explaining how his apology back in GW1 was sincere up until the moment he had the strength to retract it without repercussions. If that is what the words of a Pacifican Emperor are worth, why would FAN (or anyone) take this seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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