Beefspari Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='Geoffron X' timestamp='1299218821' post='2652137'] So optional treaties aren't legitimate? [/quote] They are if you don't mind paying reps when you lose. Starting an optional war and then going "wtf reps!" is kind of stupid though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 (edited) [quote name='James Wilson' timestamp='1299207896' post='2651869'] Surrendered to GOONS? Thats sad and pathetic... [/quote] Not particularly, it's just a matter of time before the rest follow. Olympus put up a good fight, you shouldn't diss them for merely recognizing a time for peace. Edited March 4, 2011 by Sardonic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yggdrazil Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1299116048' post='2650261'] Congrats on peace. Before any of the other parties we're at war with get any ideas, their rep amount is severely discounted because of them leaving early, and not indicative of how much I intend to charge the majority of you (unless you chooase to surrender soon as well). [/quote] Building no "golden bridges" it seems. Tactics not your forte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueski Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Yggdrazil' timestamp='1299219640' post='2652158'] Building no "golden bridges" it seems. Tactics not your forte. [/quote] We don't owe our enemies anything, and we're not looking for good relations with them in the future. Trust me, any true Goon would sooner be held down into perpetuity than be future allies with Invicta or Legion. Edited March 4, 2011 by blueski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yggdrazil Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Sun Tsu "...leave your enemy a way of escape."Scipio said build him a golden bridge. Tactically its unsound to leave an enemy no escape. Threating them with excessive reps will get you another Fan type of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueski Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='Yggdrazil' timestamp='1299221219' post='2652193'] Sun Tsu "...leave your enemy a way of escape."Scipio said build him a golden bridge. Tactically its unsound to leave an enemy no escape. Threating them with excessive reps will get you another Fan type of war. [/quote] Which is a problem... why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Jag Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='blueski' timestamp='1299220004' post='2652165'] We don't owe our enemies anything, and we're not looking for good relations with them in the future. Trust me, any true Goon would sooner be held down into perpetuity than be future allies with Invicta or Legion. [/quote]We are, however, open to potential post-war diplomacy and trades with NSO. How about a few bags of Chee-Tos (a beloved goon delicacy) for RV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yggdrazil Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='blueski' timestamp='1299221328' post='2652197'] Which is a problem... why? [/quote] It worked so well for NPO. I guess you can give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nippy Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='Yggdrazil' timestamp='1299221219' post='2652193'] Sun Tsu "...leave your enemy a way of escape."Scipio said build him a golden bridge. Tactically its unsound to leave an enemy no escape. Threating them with excessive reps will get you another Fan type of war. [/quote] You incorrectly assume that every kicked dog becomes a vicious killer reminiscent of FAN. Finding them huddled together and pissing themselves in a corner is a more likely scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueski Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='Yggdrazil' timestamp='1299221583' post='2652204'] It worked so well for NPO. I guess you can give it a try. [/quote] Two years of watching them delete while toying with the few foolish enough to leave peace mode sounds like the best two years I'll ever have here. After that, if they're capable of taking revenge I wouldn't have any reason to disapprove. Besides, its not even the same situation. NPO and pals have a way out whenever they want to take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yggdrazil Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 I'll remind you,FAN resources did not end their war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamuella Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1299195535' post='2651628'] TPF would most likely be the ally you attacked. [/quote] Wow, we've been busy. When did we attack tpf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timberland Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='The Pansy' timestamp='1299116234' post='2650268'] Thanks for the memories DOOMHOUSE, a special shout out to Timberland of TOP for his help in putting the people together. [/quote] Congrats on peace to everyone, Pansy, it was a pleasure in helping both sides come together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stetson76 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='blueski' timestamp='1299222058' post='2652214'] NPO and pals have a way out whenever they want to take it. [/quote] They do? And what's that pray tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamuella Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1299196769' post='2651653'] Yes, everyone on this side is in a defensive war. Your coalition attacked our coalition out of the blue. It's coalition warfare after all. [/quote] ah, good old e-lawyering. Vol, words have actual meanings, not just whatever you choose them to mean at that moment. I know it makes people feel better to say "This is defensive!" as they enter a war on an optional aggression clause, but wishing doesn't make it so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Jag Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='Stetson' timestamp='1299225632' post='2652275'] They do? And what's that pray tell? [/quote]NPO can surrender and get very mild terms pretty much any time due to the nature of the conflict, and the various alliances on their side can surrender and pay reps according to their entrance point and capability to pay reps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamuella Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1299211101' post='2651900'] Actually, I don't do reps...demanding them or paying them. [/quote] Your alliance does, or did. or did you forget the peace terms that Athens, CDT, and =LOST= paid in the war of the coalition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefspari Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1299223471' post='2652231'] Wow, we've been busy. When did we attack tpf? [/quote] Geez where have you been lamuella, don't you know that if we attack someone we're attacking everyone they're treatied with? And everyone [i]they're[/i] treatied with. And everyone [b]they're[/b] treatied with. And everyone [b][i]they're[/i][/b] treatied with. Logically speaking, the entire planet is in a defensive war against us since we attacked someone. That's how things work (when we're talking about GOONs, anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='Yggdrazil' timestamp='1299221219' post='2652193'] Sun Tsu "...leave your enemy a way of escape."Scipio said build him a golden bridge. Tactically its unsound to leave an enemy no escape. Threating them with excessive reps will get you another Fan type of war. [/quote] You're mistaken. We are offering more than fair terms for our defeated enemies. Who said anything about nigh eternal war like what happened to FAN? There's a huge difference, and if you can't see it I pity your blindness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1299226958' post='2652292'] Geez where have you been lamuella, don't you know that if we attack someone we're attacking everyone they're treatied with? And everyone [i]they're[/i] treatied with. And everyone [b]they're[/b] treatied with. And everyone [b][i]they're[/i][/b] treatied with. Logically speaking, the entire planet is in a defensive war against us since we attacked someone. That's how things work (when we're talking about GOONs, anyway). [/quote] You're hearing this argument because your allies offered it first when they started claiming "coalition warfare" as a reason for MK and Umbrella to be attacking TPF and others without having actually formally declared war. I don't think anyone has actually made the hyperbolic claim that you're putting in their mouths, they've simply restated the claim that you and/or your allies already made. Personally, I think it's a dumb argument either way, but if you're going to get upset at someone actually using an Optional Defense Treaty for once then quite frankly you deserve to be inundated with pointless legalistic arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Chocolate Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1299226958' post='2652292'] Geez where have you been lamuella, don't you know that if we attack someone we're attacking everyone they're treatied with? And everyone [i]they're[/i] treatied with. And everyone [b]they're[/b] treatied with. And everyone [b][i]they're[/i][/b] treatied with. Logically speaking, the entire planet is in a defensive war against us since we attacked someone. That's how things work (when we're talking about GOONs, anyway). [/quote] That is the retarded treaty web, actually. It has nothing to do with GOONS in particular. I'm NOT saying I support it, it is just how it is. There is a way out (and again, I mean for everyone, not GOONS only). The way out is optional treaties. With more optional treaties, alliances could just make their own choice to enter or not, and frankly, I think many would not. However, when people do things like demand reps using the reasoning that it's to keep other alliances from entering a war under an optional treaty, instead of doing that what it actually does is encourage alliances to make more mandatory treaties because they don't want to be hit with reps in the future. Then next war, they are required to enter and the alliance has an automatic enemy as opposed to an alliance who may or may not have been one's enemy previously. Reps - fair short term solution but a very poor long term tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwuss Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1299245646' post='2652411'] That is the retarded treaty web, actually. It has nothing to do with GOONS in particular. I'm NOT saying I support it, it is just how it is. There is a way out (and again, I mean for everyone, not GOONS only). The way out is optional treaties. With more optional treaties, alliances could just make their own choice to enter or not, and frankly, I think many would not. However, when people do things like demand reps using the reasoning that it's to keep other alliances from entering a war under an optional treaty, instead of doing that what it actually does is encourage alliances to make more mandatory treaties because they don't want to be hit with reps in the future. Then next war, they are required to enter and the alliance has an automatic enemy as opposed to an alliance who may or may not have been one's enemy previously. Reps - fair short term solution but a very poor long term tactic. [/quote] We demand reps because we want them. Just like we declare war because we want to. Logic has no place here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maleatu Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1299116048' post='2650261'] Congrats on peace. Before any of the other parties we're at war with get any ideas, their rep amount is severely discounted because of them leaving early, and not indicative of how much I intend to charge the majority of you (unless you choose to surrender soon as well). [/quote] It really doesn't matter what you charge. We ain't payin' it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilkenny Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1299223471' post='2652231'] Wow, we've been busy. When did we attack tpf? [/quote] When, By DH Logic, you attacked NPO, our MDAP partner. Coalition warfare...remember?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWConner Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1299226762' post='2652289'] Your alliance does, or did. or did you forget the peace terms that Athens, CDT, and =LOST= paid in the war of the coalition. [/quote] Check my alliance seniority. I wasn't a member here when that occurred. I was leading Veritas Aequitas and we were a TPF protectorate. And when TPF offered us reps to receive as part of the surrender, I declined them. And a previous incarnation of TPF under different leadership accepted/demanded reps. Not the current roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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