A Dark Templar Announcement

[nutkase]

[quote name='Jocabia' timestamp='1298353799' post='2641457']
You do know how average works, yes? Do I really have to teach you how to calculate an average? If the average NS is falling and you're gaining, then someone has to be doing much worse than the average to make up for that. Is it really that complicated?
[/quote]

you do relies that this could be used against every alliance at war? I have used your speech that we are burning and applied it to my nation, which in fact is not happening.


[quote]
No, it doesn't. I realize that you were ghosting another NS (something that some of your membership think is totally cheating when we do it) and that a lot of your losses were during that. But I also know when you returned to the NS. You returned on the 14th at 9.1K. I'm sure you'd like to move some of your losses from this front to the other front so it looks like you're gaining, but the fact is that you're trending downward. And you've lost 15% since you started warring under the AA of DT. That's better than some, but it's hardly what you represented.
[/quote]

I'm not ghosting? I resigned from TIO which was accepted and applied to DT which was also accepted. Which does not fit the description of ghosting. My slight drop from 9.1K is credited to the use of nukes, not CSN attacks.


[quote]
I also love that your alliance is trying to convince it's members that we're in money trouble. Feel free to attempt to outlast our money.
[/quote]

While I cannot comment on the upper tiers, your lower teirs are having money issues.

[Jocabia]

[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1298354603' post='2641477']
You really are mad, aren't you? Realizing that we don't play by the same rules as you?

The stats might show that we are losing more of everything militarily, but we are winning this war in the categories that matter. Not because of dishonesty, tears or manipulation, but because of your alliance's own incompetence and pride. Power corrupts. CSN was corrupted by their first taste of it. The world has taken notice and the blood is in the water. You guys can suck up your pride and admit you were wrong, stop spewing stats that prove that you're winning a war of attrition with superior numbers and turn away from certain doom. Or you can continue down your path and when the world catches up with you, I'll be here smiling and laughing about how I told you so. Take it from someone who learned firsthand the same way you will . . .
[/quote]
Hmmm... your alliance opened this thread with dishonesty, tears and manipulation. And all it earned you was the "respect" of people who were already on your side and lost us the "respect' of the people who were already against us. And in the end, it didn't help you in negotiations and it didn't change the outcome of the war for the positive. It did, however, gel our membership against you. So thanks for that.

Oh, I love how this is going now. "Sure, you're crushing us in this war we entered while you were offering peace to our ally, but because you didn't just let us of scott-free, some day, some where you're going to be destroyed because of this. Some day. It really is going to happen. I swear. It will."

I love this game, can I play? Because you guys have shown yourselves to be willing to use any means to manipulate the outcome of a war, people will forever hold that against you. I declare that we're winning because if I wait long enough, some day, you guys will disband or join another alliance. And I will be vindicated.

Or maybe, Bob is an ever-changing place and you're speculating about nonsense.

[HeRo1]

[quote name='raasaa' timestamp='1298115185' post='2638324']
I am not a big fan of GOD...but even i dont believe that :S.

GOD throwing their allies to the dogs is absurd on so many levels
[/quote]


Little late to reply to this but go talk to DemonSpawn of CMEA. He was R&R tri at the time of Karma war. Me and him were great friends, i used to be in LOUD. An Alliance in Teen Titans. He actually was even iffy about staying in SF because of the things that happened. No logs ro pics, it was over XBL so i have no way of proving to you that its true.

[hizzy]

Well let's be honest here, CSN does not have nearly enough resources, will power, or even cojones to drag a war longer than DT can.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1298355676' post='2641493']
Well let's be honest here, CSN does not have nearly enough resources, will power, or even cojones to drag a war longer than DT can.
[/quote]

We will see. Our resolve is strong and our resources vast.

@Doch: I'm going to stop trying to teach you math. You are wrong and anyone with a basic grasp of logic can see so.

I am curious about the actual numbers in terms of decommission cost, I never really did an in-depth analysis.

Timeframe: DT has no reason to rush payments, so they'll presumably have their nations under a certain tech level (let's say 500) do the transactions. That makes 15, 5 slots each, 4k tech a round. So 8 rounds to send 30k tech, we'll allow for a little extra so 9 rounds, or 3 months.

The upkeep on nukes averages to about 500k a day (depending on if you have uranium or a HNMS, it can range between ~250k and ~800k. Navy is about 1M for a large nation. Now, DT has a good 40 nations of a size to get nukes or navy, but some might not get both or whatever, so let's say 1.2M on average for those 40 nations. That amounts to 3.8 billion in bills for 80 days (we're saying it takes 10 days to get back to full arsenals - it will be more for nukes but less for navy). So 3.8 billion is the number to beat.

Now, the comparison. Buying 20 nukes has a one-time cost of 30M, so that's 1.2 billion for the aforementioned 40 nations. A full navy costs about 50M for the average nation (3M for Corvettes, 3M for Landers, 3M for Cruisers, 5M for Frigates, 7M for Destroyers, 10M for Submarines and 15M for Carriers), for a cost of 2 billion on the 40 nations. That's a total cost of 3.2 billion.

In the end the profit is negligible, a mere 600 million. But there is certainly no financial penalty.

p.s. also keep in mind that if you didn't decommission, you would still need to buy back the better part of your nuclear arsenals and navies, so actually the amount saved would be much higher - maybe 2 or 3 billion

Edited February 22, 2011 by Lord Brendan

[MaGneT]

[quote name='Jocabia' timestamp='1298355608' post='2641491']
Hmmm... your alliance opened this thread with dishonesty, tears and manipulation.[/quote]
Well. How so?

[QUOTE]Oh, I love how this is going now. "Sure, you're crushing us in this war we entered while you were offering peace to our ally, but because you didn't just let us of scott-free, some day, some where you're going to be destroyed because of this. Some day. It really is going to happen. I swear. It will."[/QUOTE]
I'm bookmarking this for the day that I get to lay a printed copy on the headstone of the Commonwealth of "Sovereign" Nations . . .

[QUOTE]I love this game, can I play? Because you guys have shown yourselves to be willing to use any means to manipulate the outcome of a war, people will forever hold that against you. I declare that we're winning because if I wait long enough, some day, you guys will disband or join another alliance. And I will be vindicated.

Or maybe, Bob is an ever-changing place and you're speculating about nonsense.
[/quote]
Really? What dastardly means have we used to manipulate? What does everyone secretly hate us for?

[Jocabia]

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1298355514' post='2641489']
you do relies that this could be used against every alliance at war? I have used your speech that we are burning and applied it to my nation, which in fact is not happening. [/quote]

Your nation is losing NS. That is happening. In a war of attrition, you're losing the things that relate to your power in this war.

And yes, I'm aware that every alliance using an average calculation to get their average NS. Thanks for clearing that up.

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1298355514' post='2641489']I'm not ghosting? I resigned from TIO which was accepted and applied to DT which was also accepted. Which does not fit the description of ghosting. My slight drop from 9.1K is credited to the use of nukes, not CSN attacks. [/quote]

Yes, neither is the nation from God. He applied to CSN and we accepted. He was with us for 2 years in the past. But it still pisses a lot of people off in your alliance that he would dare to switch AAs during a war. Even after I pointed out that about 10% of your current nations have done that.

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1298355514' post='2641489']While I cannot comment on the upper tiers, your lower teirs are having money issues.
[/quote]
Hmmm... I wonder what is going to happen when our upper 50 nations have nobody to fight anymore and are out of anarchy and making tons of money again. Gee, I wonder where that money will go.

[Jocabia]

[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1298356520' post='2641504']
Well. How so?[/quote]

Well, that makes a full circle. I believe you've been clearly told what you lied about. We've heard all the excuses. You know what we've evidenced as manipulation. We've heard all of the excuses. And we've seen tons of tears. The big, evil CSN is just picking on your poor, pitiful alliance. We're big giant bullies who pulled your pigtails and pushed you in the mud.

And now we're going to die because of it... I love vague predictions because if CSN disbands for any reason at all you'll pretend like you're a prognosticator.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Jocabia

[Jocabia]

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1298355676' post='2641493']
Well let's be honest here, CSN does not have nearly enough resources, will power, or even cojones to drag a war longer than DT can.
[/quote]
That appears to be the hope of DT. Let's all watch and see how that turns out. Unfortunately, by the time they figure out they're wrong, their alliance will be in ashes.

[General Ozujsko]

[quote name='Jocabia' timestamp='1298355277' post='2641485']
Hahahaha. But you don't think you can win. We both know that after 6 days your alliance was surrendering and you were there.
[/quote]

And here you are again taking stats from the last 6 days of war and drawing many conclusions from it. Can't see the forest for the trees, huh?

[quote name='Jocabia' timestamp='1298355608' post='2641491']
I love this game, can I play? Because you guys have shown yourselves to be willing to use any means to manipulate the outcome of a war, people will forever hold that against you.
[/quote]

Forever use that against us? Wow. Haha. Do you know how many new faces we've seen around our forums and IRC channel? Do you realize that we're getting support on your "side"?? Do you realize that people that used to routinely give us a hard time are now telling us to keep going? Please, the only people who will hold this against us never cared for us to begin with. Which is fine and expected. But maybe you do need to brush up on your history - resistance movements in CN are almost universally respected. The oppressor may be frustrated and annoyed, but foolish to disrespect such courage.

[quote]
I declare that we're winning because if I wait long enough, some day, you guys will disband or join another alliance. And I will be vindicated.
[/quote]

You really have no idea about our history, do you? I mentioned this to somebody else in CSN but they chose to not respond. Doesn't matter - Jacobia, we are an alliance of outsiders. We formed as a split off SOLID. We are the fringe of CN. We won't disband. We won't be joining another alliance. You can wait until the end of days because you will never be vindicated.

All of our major allies have given their all in wars and rebuilt themselves. Some of them had their own resistance movements. Most, if not all, of them have pledged rebuilding aid. We are in good company.

At the end of the day, our resolve will last longer than CSN's warchest. That's it. End of story.

Continue to cherry-pick stats from 6 days of war and insinuate that we'll disband - it's quite amusing.

===

PS: Glad to see CSN finally get their own version of Penkala to fire mental turds at us. Right on. My shipment of coloring books is on it's way, buddy.

[MaGneT]

[quote name='Jocabia' timestamp='1298356788' post='2641508']
Well, that makes a full circle. I believe you've been clearly told what you lied about. We've heard all the excuses. You know what we've evidenced as manipulation. We've heard all of the excuses. And we've seen tons of tears. The big, evil CSN is just picking on your poor, pitiful alliance. We're big giant bullies who pulled your pigtails and pushed you in the mud.

And now we're going to die because of it... I love vague predictions because if CSN disbands for any reason at all you'll pretend like you're a prognosticator.
[/quote]
Are you referring to the one line Titan said as a lie? The fact that this thread exists is manipulation in your eyes? I don't quite get how any of that helps your case. Your argument holds less water than a sieve.

My predictions are not vague. They come from someone who did something much like what CSN is doing now. You're part of a bloc that isn't particularly popular (SF), much as I was in BLEU. You decided to make a blatant power play by attempting to neuter a potential enemy (not that we were a potential enemy at that point, but you've made us into lifelong enemies assuming this treatment continues), as BLEU did in attacking NADC. The world notices these things. Treaties will vanish. The world will polarize against you. And within the next two global conflicts, SF will be no more, very much because of the way a signatory is conducting itself here.

Or you can continue to ignore my warnings. I'm only trying to help because I know better /

[CubaQuerida]

[quote name='AuiNur' timestamp='1298348529' post='2641372']
He was our number 1 guy? Nay I say, I am always number 1 in DT. always.
[/quote]

GRMBL GRMBL

[CzarBomba]

^ The most interesting man in the world... sorry AuiNur.

[hizzy]

[quote name='Jocabia' timestamp='1298356957' post='2641510']
That appears to be the hope of DT. Let's all watch and see how that turns out. Unfortunately, by the time they figure out they're wrong, their alliance will be in ashes.
[/quote]

And that won't certainly be your doing, Mr. 0-offensive-wars-and-the-only-thing-I-know-about-what's-going-on-is-what-my-masters-tell-me.

It still amazes me that some people haven't caught on to the tides of war on Planet Bob. For someone who's been around since 2007, your cranium must composed of an exceptionally compact bone matrix with a very high ratio of mass per unit of volume. There was only 1 time I have ever told someone that they're going to have it coming, and that was ChairmanHal when he said "karma's a !@#$%*" about 8 months before the Karma War where his alliance got stomped.

You sir, will be #2.

[erikz]

[quote name='Jocabia' timestamp='1298356957' post='2641510']
That appears to be the hope of DT. Let's all watch and see how that turns out. Unfortunately, by the time they figure out they're wrong, their alliance will be in ashes.
[/quote]

So that's how you justify extorting DT. I wondered how you could, but at least now I know.

[Stewie]

[quote name='Jocabia' timestamp='1298356957' post='2641510']
That appears to be the hope of DT. Let's all watch and see how that turns out. Unfortunately, by the time they figure out they're wrong, their alliance will be in ashes.
[/quote]


Then DT will be like a Phoenix rising from the ashes and will destroy you.

[fant0m]

[quote name='Jocabia' timestamp='1298356957' post='2641510']
That appears to be the hope of DT. Let's all watch and see how that turns out. Unfortunately, by the time they figure out they're wrong, their alliance will be in ashes.
[/quote]

Going by CSN's warchests your own alliance won't be in a much better position.

[Farnsworth]

Relevant facts:

1. Pride is potent.

2. Temporarily swallowing one's pride can assist in the resuscitation of one's image.

3. Pride will prevent one from admitting the opinions of others matter.

4. You should ponder number 3 and let the irony register.

Stand firm, freedom fighters! o/ DT

[Haflinger]

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1298361736' post='2641563']
And that won't certainly be your doing, Mr. 0-offensive-wars-and-the-only-thing-I-know-about-what's-going-on-is-what-my-masters-tell-me.
[/quote]
Hey, give him a break, he went from 116K NS to 67K. He's probably broke

[chefjoe]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1297664001' post='2632550']
I assure you that this war will be ended fairly[/quote]

Just going thru the thread and seeing how many times Penkala's BS is being proven incorrect, I stopped at this one because it sums up the multitude of others.....Though tbh im just waiting another weekish before going to find the quotes where he said if it isnt ended in 2 weeks he would then be one of CSN's detractors.

Mmmmmm how does that foot taste Penkala?

[Coloradia]

[quote name='Jocabia']I'm not exaggerating. Their entire AA is getting their butts kicked. As is he.

I do love when we're talking about DT the best the trolls can accomplish is pointing out that maybe one of them isn't getting their butt kicked that badly. Man, you sure showed me. [/quote]
Again you ignore that you were shown to not know what you were talking about and try to cover it up with some vague ad hominem, congratulations on remaining a fool.[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1298349442' post='2641384']
the failure in your logic is that you assume i think that you don't get a second cone. fact is, instead of spending $5 you have now spent $10 total. $5 for the original and $5 for the replacement. that is $10 no matter how you cut it. so, because you dropped the first cone, you had to buy the second cone. if you had not dropped the first cone, you would not have had to spend money to buy a second one. it seriously is not that hard.
[/quote]
Apparently it is that hard for you.

The dropped cone does not cost you $10. You are down $10 yes, however you have the dropped cone ($5 cost) and you have a cone ($5 cost). If the dropped cone cost $10 then the cone you have would have to be free.

You are spending $5 for an ice cream cone. You drop it. Now you have $5 and a dropped ice cream cone. Now you are $5 down. The dropped cone cost $5. You now can choose to cut your losses, or you can buy another cone for $5. If you buy another you now are $10 down, and you have an ice cream cone and a dropped ice cream cone. If the dropped cone cost you $10 then that would mean you got the second cone for free, which you of course did not.

You could argue that it cost $10 to get a cone, but to argue that the dropped cone cost $10 is incorrect.

[raasaa]

[quote name='HeRo1' timestamp='1298355632' post='2641492']
Little late to reply to this but go talk to DemonSpawn of CMEA. He was R&R tri at the time of Karma war. Me and him were great friends, i used to be in LOUD. An Alliance in Teen Titans. He actually was even iffy about staying in SF because of the things that happened. No logs ro pics, it was over XBL so i have no way of proving to you that its true.
[/quote]
All i see is just words....so, for now i will stick to my belief

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='The Great One' timestamp='1298386120' post='2641664']
Again you ignore that you were shown to not know what you were talking about and try to cover it up with some vague ad hominem, congratulations on remaining a fool.
Apparently it is that hard for you.

The dropped cone does not cost you $10. You are down $10 yes, however you have the dropped cone ($5 cost) and you have a cone ($5 cost). If the dropped cone cost $10 then the cone you have would have to be free.

You are spending $5 for an ice cream cone. You drop it. Now you have $5 and a dropped ice cream cone. Now you are $5 down. The dropped cone cost $5. You now can choose to cut your losses, or you can buy another cone for $5. If you buy another you now are $10 down, and you have an ice cream cone and a dropped ice cream cone. If the dropped cone cost you $10 then that would mean you got the second cone for free, which you of course did not.

You could argue that it cost $10 to get a cone, but to argue that the dropped cone cost $10 is incorrect.
[/quote]

if i was arguing that the dropped cone did in fact cost $10 you would be correct. but reread what i posted. it appears that you and Brendan in your haste to attempt to claim i am an idiot and don't know basic math, have continuously and for your part Colo, purposefully misread what i wrote. i stated that the dropped cone was the [b]CAUSE[/b] for you spending $10. not that the dropped cone cost $10 but again [b]CAUSED[/b] you to spend $10.

so now that we have finally gotten the fact that you and Brendan need to learn how to read properly instead of continuously misreading, we can move on. so, please stop trying to claim i have no logic (Colo) or i am an idiot(Brendan) when neither of you have the reading skills necessary, it appears, to even understand what was posted. so, with that i bid both of you a fond...wait not so fond actually... farewell.

[nutkase]

I think the discussion of this ice cream cone has taken on more importance then the whole war!

[Kryievla]

Ice cream cones?

I realize reason went out the window a while back, but this is off the hook. If you are forced to resort to poor ice cream cone analogies to make your point, you have already lost the debate.

What you all asked for was wrong.

You know it was wrong.

Everyone knows you know it was wrong.

That is why every instance of you guys attempting to defend it looks bad. It looks dishonest. Each and every argument that doesn't hold water makes it appear more and more so.

These guys entered honoring a treaty, to help their partner defensively. They had no expectation of winning a war here. There was no opportunism on their part. [i]Most everyone that is not directly allied to you, even some of you yourselves, sees this[/i]. Every reason given in this thread & others has been shot down.

The newest complaint is that they aren't being respectful enough. Respect begets respect, and you have treated them with none. If you are expecting them to kiss up to you after you treated them the way you did, maybe you should rethink your expectations, as your expectations are unreasonable.

I think that nothing would be lost if you guys were able to come to the table & start over. A lot could be gained, by both of you. Good luck getting this resolved.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Kryievla