mushi Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 [quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1293651469' post='2557529'] Why should people who purposefully joined NEW to get in shots at DF's allies be allowed to leave and leave NEW's regular members holding the bag? If the DF side had considered them rogues and ZIed them, that would be harsh but not completely unjustified either. It's a light term, much lighter than I expected. [/quote] Its not like nations have joined a AA to help out before. A nation or 2 did join from umbrella to MK during WoTC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 [quote name='mushi' timestamp='1293658610' post='2557606'] Its not like nations have joined a AA to help out before. A nation or 2 did join from umbrella to MK during WoTC. [/quote] Except we're not talking about a 'nation or two' here. We're talking about 1/4 of PC and plenty of other nations too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 [quote name='Locke' timestamp='1293653200' post='2557556'] The one thing everyone here should be able to agree on, at least. [/quote] I disagree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushi Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 [quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1293659660' post='2557616'] Except we're not talking about a 'nation or two' here. We're talking about 1/4 of PC and plenty of other nations too. [/quote] 10/81 sure does equal quarter. Most in CN see nothing wrong with a few nations joining to help a friend out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midkn1ght Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 [quote name='mushi' timestamp='1293660277' post='2557622'] 10/81 sure does equal quarter. Most in CN see nothing wrong with a few nations joining to help a friend out. [/quote] They shouldn't of been there without a formal declaration of war in the first place. You're lucky cooler heads prevailed and a larger war didn't break out for that stunt, not to mention the stupidity shown by certain parties in the negotiation rooms. A few fine, it happens. Recruitment messages and encouragement? CB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Scipio Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 [quote name='Midkn1ght' timestamp='1293660751' post='2557628'] They shouldn't of been there without a formal declaration of war in the first place. You're lucky cooler heads prevailed and a larger war didn't break out for that stunt, not to mention the stupidity shown by certain parties in the negotiation rooms. A few fine, it happens. Recruitment messages and encouragement? CB. [/quote] Was it actually encouraged by PC government? I was under the impression that it wasn't. I would really hate to see these forums if every member of an alliance in a war had to post a DoW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcalkin Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 [quote name='mushi' timestamp='1293658610' post='2557606'] Its not like nations have joined a AA to help out before. A nation or 2 did join from umbrella to MK during WoTC. [/quote] If you're talking about me, I was leaving anyway because of one member and joined MK because my friend NPKJI was there. I suspected war might eventually be coming to them, but I had no idea that it was coming within a couple of days of my joining, and it didn't factor into my decision to go there very much at all at the time. The only other person who joined with me was pretty new to the alliance and went because he wanted to fight on the losing side of the war. The situation was different with you guys, who jumped in after the war had started to get your chunk, who originally attacked without first becoming members of the alliance you were helping and who presumably will return to PC/start some new alliance shortly after this. When you have government members leaving and acting as a defined group who will probably return to their former positions (like with the Summer alliance earlier this year) its hard to see these two situations being comparable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Näktergal Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 [quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1293645089' post='2557436'] I missed your posts. [/quote] I forgot my password for a few months. Just remembered it again. Shame I can't go back and comment in some of the threads I've seen in the past that I wanted to post in but couldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiderJerusalem Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 First of all... Props to the PC and iFOKkers that fought for their beliefs Second of all... The terms are lenient, very lenient indeed... Now... This is all !@#$%^&*. Why the hell are you giving terms in the first place? Just to clarify for NEW that you are "superior" or to prove your "power"? [i]You[/i] are the attackers that wanted to prove a "moral high road"... If you want to prove that, then beat them the $%&@ down (which you obviously cannot do), instead of giving them terms. I am disappointed and ashamed over ever fighting on your side (Not that I want the other side to win either, but you should be better than this). To the other PC and iFOKkers: You should really get your testicles checked, I think they are missing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 [quote name='mushi' timestamp='1293658610' post='2557606'] Its not like nations have joined a AA to help out before. A nation or 2 did join from umbrella to MK during WoTC. [/quote] I don't disagree with the principle of it. If somebody feels strongly enough to join an alliance at war, then more power to them, but they ought to be prepared to share in the consequences of possible defeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnCapistan Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 [quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1293650869' post='2557520'] How is it when the reps can be paid off in a single day? It gets kind of absurd when people think of that as harsh. [/quote] I just think it's wrong for someone to be forced to stay in an alliance is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedj Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 I have a question about the reps, and my tired brain is refusing to re-read the OP. do the reps go to ALL of the Dark Fist nations i.e. SCM who didnt get raided and never fought for his old alliance or do the reps just go to those who got raided Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zekarde Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 Congrats to Fark, INT and TPE for their success on getting reps for the DF nations. Also, very admirable letting NEW yield with lenient terms. Hails abound and all that good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 [quote name='General Scipio' timestamp='1293607219' post='2557127'] Are the nations that joined Fark to fight under the same terms, or can NEW consider them rogues if they go back to their original alliances? [/quote] Fark doesn't have any reps they need to pay off, so even if those nations agreed to the same restrictions Fark doesn't have any reps they need to pay off before they can go back to their original alliance. Once NEW is done with reps the members can join whatever alliance they want. Also this isn't the first time limitations have been put on an alliance's members preventing them from leaving while under terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrash Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 [quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1293658582' post='2557605'] Is there something in the water over at Invicta? Nobody is being ZIed here... [/quote] It was in reference to this: [quote]If the DF side had considered them rogues and ZIed them, that would be harsh but not completely unjustified either.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 [quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1293664220' post='2557667'] I just think it's wrong for someone to be forced to stay in an alliance is all. [/quote] When they play mercenary, if getting to spend a little extra time in another AA is all the punishment they get, that's nothing to complain about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkfox Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 [quote name='SpiderJerusalem' timestamp='1293662825' post='2557646'] Now... This is all !@#$%^&*. Why the hell are you giving terms in the first place? Just to clarify for NEW that you are "superior" or to prove your "power"? [/quote] Those "terms" are reparations for the tech raid on DarkFist nations. Notice that none of the money/tech are going to any TPE, Fark, or Int nations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiderJerusalem Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 (edited) [quote name='darkfox' timestamp='1293666874' post='2557710'] Those "terms" are reparations for the tech raid on DarkFist nations. Notice that none of the money/tech are going to any TPE, Fark, or Int nations. [/quote] So, question... Does NEW have to pay these reparations to get peace? If so, they are terms... The "Axis of moral police" are still just making a point and pushing NEW down, even if they shouldn't do it, since [i]they[/i] were the attackers Edited December 30, 2010 by SpiderJerusalem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 [quote name='SpiderJerusalem' timestamp='1293667177' post='2557714'] The "Axis of moral police" are still just making a point and pushing NEW down, even if they shouldn't do it, since [i]they[/i] were the attackers [/quote] Huh? NEW attacked first. That makes them the aggressors. Fark and company would have been perfectly justified in demanding reparations for their own nations as well, but they didnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiderJerusalem Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 [quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1293667446' post='2557722'] Huh? NEW attacked first. That makes them the aggressors. Fark and company would have been perfectly justified in demanding reparations for their own nations as well, but they didnt. [/quote] NEW attacked a non-entity, not an alliance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkfox Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 [quote name='SpiderJerusalem' timestamp='1293667177' post='2557714'] So, question... Does NEW have to pay these reparations to get peace? If so, they are terms... The "Axis of moral police" are still just making a point and pushing NEW down, even if they shouldn't do it, since [i]they[/i] were the attackers [/quote] The whole war started because NEW refused to pay reps and admit guilt for tech raiding protected nations. This also has nothing to do with moral policing. Dark Fist's allies were protecting them and some members of NEW raided them. But hey if you want to say we are morally right for doing so I appreciate the compliment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tautology Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 [quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1293666609' post='2557704'] When they play mercenary, if getting to spend a little extra time in another AA is all the punishment they get, that's nothing to complain about.[/quote] Since they chose to take their vacation in NEW, it's more an extended holiday than a punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcturus Jefferson Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 [quote name='SpiderJerusalem' timestamp='1293667583' post='2557724'] NEW attacked a non-entity, not an alliance [/quote] If that's true, you should be able to raid Dark Fist AA's without consequence. Let's have you give it a shot and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladisvok Destino Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 (edited) [quote name='SpiderJerusalem' timestamp='1293667583' post='2557724'] NEW attacked a non-entity, not an alliance [/quote] How does that make a difference? This is hardly the first time CN has seen people protect disbanded AAs or even individual nations when it suits them, it's just NEW felt the need to test that protection, in doing so they fired first. Ultimately any protection of an alliance, a group of nations, or a single nation is only worth what the protector can back it up with. Edited December 30, 2010 by Vladisvok Destino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushi Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 [quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1293662879' post='2557649'] I don't disagree with the principle of it. If somebody feels strongly enough to join an alliance at war, then more power to them, but they ought to be prepared to share in the consequences of possible defeat. [/quote] I agree they should get the same punishment as the alliance they joined. But ZIeding them or asking reps for the new nations is just plain stupid. It will just send a new precedent, and a dangerous one at that. There was only 1 govt member from PC who resigned and joined the war, the rest are rank and file members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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