Proof that democracy doesn't work

[The MVP]

So I found something quite funny here. I was reading through Mido's blog, this doesn't center around Mido I'm just saying, how [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&blogid=444&showentry=1811"]democracy is the way to go.[/url] Now he's joined the alliance The Legacy where it is a very structured, if not one of the more, structured systems:

[quote]Lord - The leader of Legacy. All members should put full trust into him. He is to lead Legacy to further heights and do whatever is best for Legacy. Our Lord has final say in all matters and his word should be considered final.
Regent - The right hand to our Lord. He assists the Lord wherever he is needed. Should the Lord take leave for any reason, the Regent will take his place until his return.
Ministers - Ministers rule over: Education, Foreign Affairs, Internal Affairs, Military Affairs and Finance. All Ministers are free to run their department as they please, but ultimately answer to The Royal Government in times of emergencies.
Education - Answers questions concerning nations, conducts nation audits, and holds classes for learning.
Foreign Affairs - Can appoint diplomats if needed, seeks treaties, with emperor approval, with alliances, and keeps up relations with other alliances.
Internal Affairs - In charge of processing new members, also in charge of maintaining order within the alliance.
Military Affairs - Coordinates battle efforts for both peace-keeping and full-scale militarization
Finance - Coordinates new member aid, tech deals, war aid, and nation building plans. [/quote]

Furthermore his caption under his avatar reads: "A Leader sets the Trail for others to follow!"

Well.. that's not democratic. Anyways, isn't it just proof that democracies on Planet Bob just aren't as efficient?

[LittleRena]

LSF have a democratic process, from what I gather, everyone has a say and it seems to work for them

[Believland]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1284071734' post='2448095']
LSF have a democratic process, from what I gather, everyone has a say and it seems to work for them
[/quote]

Everyone has a say in an alliance they're in. Whether it be democratic or a dictatorship.


Direct democracy hardly works but, democratic alliances, for the most part, usually work.

[Titus Pullo]

[quote name='Believland' timestamp='1284072463' post='2448115']
Everyone has a say in an alliance they're in. Whether it be democratic or a dictatorship.


Direct democracy hardly works but, democratic alliances, for the most part, usually work.
[/quote]

I agree with BEazy for once. Democracy slows down decision making, but it makes the execution of those decisions much more effective.

[Arcturus Jefferson]

Can we point to all the various failings of non-democratic alliances and say that they don't work, too?

Edited September 9, 2010 by Arcturus Jefferson

[oOoMidooOo]

Yeh i think both work.

But lets not forget there is many top democratic alliances whom are well built example of that : MHA , GPA , R&R , and the list goes on.
'a leader sets the trail for others' also is for democratic system too .

[Hadrian]

Democratic dictatorship ftw.

[Mixoux]

Democracies can work, so long as you actually let your elected officials do their job and not whine and moan at every decision made.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' timestamp='1284074156' post='2448143']
Can we point to all the various failings of non-democratic alliances and say that they don't work, too?
[/quote]
All alliances are failures.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1284071542' post='2448087']
Well.. that's not democratic. Anyways, isn't it just proof that democracies on Planet Bob just aren't as efficient?
[/quote]

Don't know about you, but I know of a decently efficient democracy

[Land of True Israel]

I will say this. Democracy sure does make for an often slow decision making process, let alone the unfortunate effects of allowing the masses and/or majority to direct an alliance. Unless the majority happen to be intelligent and have a firm grasp on things, which many times isn't the case, the democratic process is very much flawed.

Edit: Typo

Edited September 10, 2010 by Land of True Israel

[Marneus Calgar]

Meritocracy FTW

Just sayin'

[DragonsPhyre]

The Global Alliance and Treaty Organization has been democratic since its inception years ago. We've gone through a couple changes to streamline things, but we're still strong democratic in nature and I believe our continued successes even after getting beaten to a pulp show that a democratic alliance can and does work.

[NoFish]

[quote name='DragonsPhyre' timestamp='1284082208' post='2448294']
The Global Alliance and Treaty Organization has been democratic since its inception years ago. We've gone through a couple changes to streamline things, but we're still strong democratic in nature and I believe our continued successes even after getting beaten to a pulp show that a democratic alliance can and does work.
[/quote]
I'm pretty sure GATO should never be used as an example to say that [i]anything[/i] is a good idea.

[DragonsPhyre]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1284082711' post='2448299']
I'm pretty sure GATO should never be used as an example to say that [i]anything[/i] is a good idea.
[/quote]
Sure, we've made mistakes. I don't think you will find anyone that denies that. We've bounced back every time, though, which is truer to my point.

Your attempt at a cheap shot is noted, though. Have a good day.

[NoFish]

[quote name='DragonsPhyre' timestamp='1284082971' post='2448304']
Sure, we've made mistakes. I don't think you will find anyone that denies that. We've bounced back every time, though, which is truer to my point.

Your attempt at a cheap shot is noted, though. Have a good day.
[/quote]
It seems to me that a democratic alliance who has [i]never[/i] been known as the original WAE would be a better example than one who was and then got better.

[DragonsPhyre]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1284084057' post='2448321']
It seems to me that a democratic alliance who has [i]never[/i] been known as the original WAE would be a better example than one who was and then got better.
[/quote]
The WAE thing was propaganda spread from the NPO at that time. I'm sure those responsible are gratified to see that it's still effective even nowadays.

[Fernando12]

When I saw this I thought it was about NSO because they like to call their democracy the challenge system.

What happens in NSO's challenge system is that a member can challenge another member for their position (lower member challenging a higher up). A debate is held for a time period, then voting is done. Yet they won't ever call it democracy.

So when I read why democracy/the challenge system doesn't work I immediately thought exactly right since NSO doesn't work.

[Lord Fingolfin]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1284085207' post='2448339']
When I saw this I thought it was about NSO because they like to call their democracy the challenge system.

What happens in NSO's challenge system is that a member can challenge another member for their position (lower member challenging a higher up). A debate is held for a time period, then voting is done. Yet they won't ever call it democracy.

So when I read why democracy/the challenge system doesn't work I immediately thought exactly right since NSO doesn't work.
[/quote]

You know, I'm really really proud of myself. Back when FAR was growing and seemed promising there was a thread to rate alliances. People generally rated FAR decently, and when I was in Gondor a few of our friends/allies had treaties with you and spoke highly of you. I remember I rated FAR a 5 with a commentary something along the lines of "Pandas and the rest of the alliance seems ok, but I don't trust that Fernando chap" and discouraged a FAR treaty. I might have been the first one to see how screwed up and moronic you were. I wish I could find that thread, I'd make a sig out of it


For the record, democracy has its pros and cons, personally I enjoy having an elected cabinet who serve under a monarchial executive with ultimate decision making authority, but can be overturned by a majority cabinet vote. Allows snap decisions to be made when needed, but the voice of the people is still heard, and the peoples representatives can overrule the monarch

Edited September 10, 2010 by Lord Fingolfin

[Archon]

Every alliance is a democracy, for every member can vote with their feet.

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='TheNeverender' timestamp='1284087544' post='2448396']
Every alliance is a democracy, for every member can vote with their feet.
[/quote]
I was going to say that.

[DictatatorDan]

[quote name='Titus Pullo' timestamp='1284073991' post='2448138']
I agree with BEazy for once. Democracy slows down decision making, but it makes the execution of those decisions much more effective.
[/quote]
[color="#FF0000"]Maybe if TOP was a democracy then they wouldn't be paying reps...ohwait...[/color]

[Titus Pullo]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1284093261' post='2448555']
[color="#FF0000"]Maybe if TOP was a democracy then they wouldn't be paying reps...ohwait...[/color]
[/quote]

Aww darlin' that's so cute... Please try again once you realize I'm not even in TOP...

[ratonbox]

[quote name='Davian Thule' timestamp='1284081895' post='2448286']
Meritocracy FTW

Just sayin'
[/quote]

Exactly. It might not work in other instances, but on Bob, it's the best government type.

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1284071542' post='2448087']
Well.. that's not democratic. Anyways, isn't it just proof that democracies on Planet Bob just aren't as efficient?
[/quote]
Well considering you just said that is not democratic then no I would say it has no bearing on whether democracies in general are efficient or not. CHoose a better example in future.