Sardonic Posted September 7, 2010 Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 [quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1283903717' post='2445898'] We are seeking $90,000,000 in reparations and punitive damages. [/quote] This is totally unjust, you clearly just want a war! You monster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka the Great Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1283903905' post='2445904'] This is totally unjust, you clearly just want a war! You monster! [/quote] I'm sure we'll accept it in tech as well. At the usual rate....'cept we won't be paying for it, of course. EDIT: I should also like to thank Schattenmann for providing the moral justification for this demand. Edited September 8, 2010 by Ashoka the Great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwuss Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 The only way you are getting your demands is if you accept my offer to pay them. Otherwise this entire conversation is just useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 [quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1283903439' post='2445894'] Let me referr to something I said a little while ago: I was mistaken on your position, admitted as such. I moved on, please do the same.[/quote] How were you mistaken again? You simply said "words" and then proceeded to ignore the entirety of my argument. Its a bit late to be playing the mature card after you pulled a couple of those stunts and dismissed an entire post of considerable length as "being obtuse" [quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1283903439' post='2445894']words [/quote] Claiming I'm just being obtuse and then using that as an excuse to dismiss my arguments doesn't make it so either. Don't bring shoddy arguments into play if you dislike it when they backfire. Prove your statement isnt an absolute assertion without factual basis, and I'll respect the effort you put into doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Wallace Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 [quote name='Chron' timestamp='1283901529' post='2445847'] Then I guess the point of the OP went completely over your head. [/quote] No. No it didn't. The point of the OP is flawed and the truth is it's only an attempt to create drama and bring attention to a person who is desperately trying to figure a way to become relevant again. Schatt could care less that someone from the NSO has agreed to pay $90 million in order to save his alliance from being rolled. He only wants to create a picture of some new "hegemonic" presence that consists of certain alliances who at one time were allied to the NPO and he feels that no matter what those certain alliances have done since that time, they (ahem, VE) along with their allies are deserving of punishment. So at every opportunity, he takes it upon himself to become some sort of supreme judge over Planet Bob and through his unique communication style, he passes judgment on those he feels deserve his scorn. Heck in the VE/GOONS treaty announcement thread where everyone was saying they couldn't believe we would ally with GOONS, Schatt came out with a different view and said he couldn't believe they'd ally with us. Now that they're an ally of VE, our friends in GOONS can expect Schattenman to come at them consistently with the same hot breath that he's used in the past when going after VE. Then we get what I call the "hanger ons" such as yourself who think they're the smartest people in the room and when people become tired of the circular arguments and decide enough is enough, you act as if you've won some great crusade and then your courage meter goes up a tick and you make snarky comments like the one above. The truth is, most of us are laughing at you and have been doing so for a long time. So continue on with this I guess... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 I read the first few pages and then thought to myself , "why waste my time, I will just jump to the end, all I am going to miss is repeated arguments for the next 10 pages". So... Has Schattenman received his 90 mill? Is fernando still being his usual annoying self? (actually, maybe fernando can pay the reps by selling NSO memberships? thats a thought..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Okay I'm going to make one last attempt to get through to you. [quote]They demanded high reps off the bat from Doppelganger for his aid, therefore, offering high reps as a starting point for negotiations is just the logical flipside of that stance. [/quote] No it isn't. The logical flipside would be recognising the legitimacy of a request for high reps from an alliance which they did something intentionally provocatory to, such as aiding an enemy at war. Of course since CoJ never felt that this situation justified demanding punitive reps in the first place, that's just another way in which the situations are different and therefore you can't claim hypocrisy (which is, in essence, saying that in a situation other people should do one thing while in the same situation you do something else). Just for emphasis: [i]the situations are different so no matter what the response to each one, there can be no hypocrisy[/i]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktarthan Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 [quote name='Chron' timestamp='1283904163' post='2445910'] How were you mistaken again? You simply said "words" and then proceeded to ignore the entirety of my argument. Its a bit late to be playing the mature card after you pulled a couple of those stunts and dismissed an entire post of considerable length as "being obtuse" Claiming I'm just being obtuse and then using that as an excuse to dismiss my arguments doesn't make it so either. Don't bring shoddy arguments into play if you dislike it when they backfire. [/quote] No, I was mistaken the first time. You were calling me out on making an argument that I made because I had misunderstood your position. I was simply re-illustrating that fact. The reason I said "words" was because it was trying to reduce the vertical size of my post. I didn't dismiss your entire post, I recognized the fact that we were mostly arguing about different things, and it was going nowhere. I picked the point that we had actually connected on, and continued with that. [quote] Prove your statement isnt an absolute assertion without factual basis, and I'll respect the effort you put into doing so. [/quote] I did make a case for my statement, but you still haven't made a reply to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodjewel Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 I agree fully with Ashoka's crusade to receive fair reps, it would be unfair to request anything less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 [quote name='Bill Wallace' timestamp='1283904198' post='2445911'] No. No it didn't. The point of the OP is flawed and the truth is it's only an attempt to create drama and bring attention to a person who is desperately trying to figure a way to become relevant again. Schatt could care less that someone from the NSO has agreed to pay $90 million in order to save his alliance from being rolled. He only wants to create a picture of some new "hegemonic" presence that consists of certain alliances who at one time were allied to the NPO and he feels that no matter what those certain alliances have done since that time, they (ahem, VE) along with their allies are deserving of punishment. So at every opportunity, he takes it upon himself to become some sort of supreme judge over Planet Bob and through his unique communication style, he passes judgment on those he feels deserve his scorn. [/quote] No way! This is completely new and unexpected behavior from Schatt, why, I never would of thought he'd had it in him. [quote] Heck in the VE/GOONS treaty announcement thread where everyone was saying they couldn't believe we would ally with GOONS, Schatt came out with a different view and said he couldn't believe they'd ally with us. Now that they're an ally of VE, our friends in GOONS can expect Schattenman to come at them consistently with the same hot breath that he's used in the past when going after VE.[/quote]Yeah, that'd be interesting if it weren't for the fact that Schatt's pretty consistent when it comes time for him to call out others on stuff he finds ridiculous. Sorry, but there's no causation there like you're implying. [quote]Then we get what I call the "hanger ons" such as yourself who think they're the smartest people in the room and when people become tired of the circular arguments and decide enough is enough, you act as if you've won some great crusade and then your courage meter goes up a tick and you make snarky comments like the one above. The truth is, most of us are laughing at you and have been doing so for a long time. [/quote]Oh my dear goodness, are you going psychoanalyst on me now? This is too much. You really don't know the context of this at all, do you? [quote]So continue on with this I guess... [/quote]Yep, I particularly enjoy the parts where I'm being accused of not knowing what words mean as if it were some sort of game-changing argument. While simultaneously not answering the accusations Schatt leveled in the OP, and GOONS continues to refuse to pay the reps they previously agreed to send to CoJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 [quote]Just for emphasis: the situations are different so no matter what the response to each one, there can be no hypocrisy.[/quote] Every situation is always different. Point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktarthan Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 [quote name='Chron' timestamp='1283904559' post='2445926'] While simultaneously not answering the accusations Schatt leveled in the OP, [b]and GOONS continues to refuse to pay the reps they previously agreed to send to CoJ[/b]. [/quote] Alright, now that you have moved from the territory of spin to outright lying, I am truly going to quit this thread, as it deserves no more of my time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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TehChron Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 (edited) [quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1283904465' post='2445919'] No, I was mistaken the first time. You were calling me out on making an argument that I made because I had misunderstood your position. I was simply re-illustrating that fact. The reason I said "words" was because it was trying to reduce the vertical size of my post. I didn't dismiss your entire post, I recognized the fact that we were mostly arguing about different things, and it was going nowhere. I picked the point that we had actually connected on, and continued with that.[/quote] Which is odd, because I honestly could have sworn I was arguing against the points you yourself were making. Was I quoting someone else? [quote]I did make a case for my statement, but you still haven't made a reply to it. [/quote]And where was this, then? [quote name='bob']No it isn't. The logical flipside would be recognising the legitimacy of a request for high reps from an alliance which they did something intentionally provocatory to, such as aiding an enemy at war. Of course since CoJ never felt that this situation justified demanding punitive reps in the first place, that's just another way in which the situations are different and therefore you can't claim hypocrisy (which is, in essence, saying that in a situation other people should do one thing while in the same situation you do something else). Just for emphasis: the situations are different so no matter what the response to each one, there can be no hypocrisy.[/quote]My argument is that due to the proclaimed nature of NSO's "trend" of aiding rogues at war with alliance, and the necessity of high punitive reps to illustrate a commitment to ending this perceived "trend" is what makes the two situations very similar. Especially because the nations in question were themselves repeatedly hit despite being pretty clear exceptions to GOONS raiding standards. So the issue of hypocrisy isn't [i]specifically[/i] with the negotiations, as you're implying with that absurd straw man. The point is with the fact that GOONS cite that when a party shows a trend of violating sovereignty, the only acceptable method to demonstrate a show of proper remorse is absurdly punitive reparations, or some other extreme show of compensation. No indication was made to follow through with that standard in regards to CoJ, which therefore demonstrates that said belief either does not exist, or that they simply chose not to apply it because it was inconvenient. The former makes the Dopp aid issue a hilariously blatant exercise in playing the victim for all to see, in the hopes of getting away with extortion. And the latter simply makes GOONS hypocrites. Based on how hard you came out in support of them, Bob, and the fact that you are supposedly a man of impeccable integrity, Id like to assume that you wouldn't knowingly play party to an absurd farce. Unless you did so unknowingly? [quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1283904686' post='2445929'] Alright, now that you have moved from the territory of spin to outright lying, I am truly going to quit this thread, as it deserves no more of my time. [/quote] Sardonic has stated he won't resend the aid until the original target of the aid becomes active again. But please, continue with the false accusations. Edited September 8, 2010 by Chron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando12 Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 [quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1283904686' post='2445929'] Alright, now that you have moved from the territory of spin to outright lying, I am truly going to quit this thread, as it deserves no more of my time. [/quote] How is he lying? Bilrow mentioned some aid/reps from September 2, but I just checked and there is no such aid from a GOONS nation to a CoJ nation. Have you or have you not sent the aid and waited for it to be accepted or let the slot expire? If it expires without being accepted then GOONS is done all it needs to do, until that happens you cannot call canceling aid/reps after 7 days attempting to pay it cuz everyone knows slots expire at 10 days. Its not up to you to decide and assume that the aid will never be accepted on day 8 or 9. Pay CoJ their pennies and end this garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodjewel Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 [quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1283905194' post='2445935'] How is he lying? Bilrow mentioned some aid/reps from September 2, but I just checked and there is no such aid from a GOONS nation to a CoJ nation. Have you or have you not sent the aid and waited for it to be accepted or let the slot expire? If it expires without being accepted then GOONS is done all it needs to do, until that happens you cannot call canceling aid/reps after 7 days attempting to pay it cuz everyone knows slots expire at 10 days. Its not up to you to decide and assume that the aid will never be accepted on day 8 or 9. Pay CoJ their pennies and end this garbage. [/quote] I'm pretty sure someone stated somewhere (this thread?) that we'd resume the payment if requested. That's not too bad of a policy, no need to wreck someone's tech trade over a silly million dollar rep payment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 [quote name='Bloodjewel' timestamp='1283905336' post='2445937'] I'm pretty sure someone stated somewhere (this thread?) that we'd resume the payment if requested. That's not too bad of a policy, no need to wreck someone's tech trade over a silly million dollar rep payment! [/quote] Statement was dependent on the individual nations activity, not a request by CoJ in general. Give me a second to look it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 [quote name='Chron' timestamp='1283905152' post='2445934'] Sardonic has stated he won't resend the aid until the original target of the aid becomes active again. [/quote] Your statement is utterly false even at face value because we never agreed to send any money to CoJ . As to the money for [I]USSR[/I], I, magnanimously, have re-opened the aid offer. Perhaps it will be accepted this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1283905527' post='2445945'] Your statement is utterly false even at face value because we never agreed to send any money to CoJ . As to the money for [I]USSR[/I], I, magnanimously, have re-opened the aid offer. Perhaps it will be accepted this time. [/quote] Ah, my mistake, I had assumed that since it was CoJ that negotiated it, the aid in question was being sent to CoJ. Thanks for sending that aid, Sardonic, now if it gets accepted that issue can finally be laid to rest. Edited September 8, 2010 by Chron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1283878334' post='2445443'] Pray the political currents of war never find you in our sights, for we shall not forget slights such as this one.[/quote] That's an interesting perspective. The problem is you aren't the only one with a gun. Also this: never talk about forgetting about the past ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePePe Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1283878334' post='2445443'] Pray the political currents of war never find you in our sights, for we shall not forget slights such as this one.[/quote] In case the contents of several posts have escaped you, I simply do not care. [quote]As to the tech raiding, it comes down to numbers, we raid more than anyone and we have an enormous amount of people in the prime raiding NS range. Incidents have been getting rarer though, as our safeguards have evolved and grown to meet the needs. [/quote] Perhaps if your alliance is incapable of such a simple task as controlling your members from screw-ups every other day, you should ban tech raiding in general. However, it seems logic has long escaped you, and member-management is not coming around anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergerland Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 I was going to post a detailed explanation of why Schatt is wrong but I'm sure somebody would quote 7 words of it and compare myself, my alliance, or my allies to the former Hegemony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubsy Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 [quote name='Bergerland' timestamp='1283908073' post='2445991'] I was going to post a detailed explanation of why Schatt is wrong but I'm sure somebody would quote 7 words of it and compare myself, my alliance, or my allies to the former Hegemony. [/quote] Typical ex-hegemony attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Bergerland' timestamp='1283908073' post='2445991'] I'm sure somebody would quote 7 words[/quote] This seven-word quote clearly demonstrates the desires of yourself, your alliance and its allies to establish a new hegemony in the 'verse. [b]Edit:[/b] This may actually be a quote of six words and a number. I'm not sure where that falls, really. Edited September 8, 2010 by Ferrozoica Hive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandolus Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 [quote name='Bergerland' timestamp='1283908073' post='2445991'] I was wrong but myself, my alliance, my allies the Hegemony. [/quote] I knew it! Bergerland you dastardly fiend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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