GOONS owes me $90,000,000

[Ragashingo]

Schatt, from what I've seen (and I believe all the relevant logs are out in the open) the GOONS government handled the NSO thing pretty calmly. Portraying it otherwise (big red letters??) only hurts the point you are trying to make. Stick to your main point, that they calmly asked for way too much and seemed to have advanced a policy of outrageous punitive damages which should be opposed, and you'll be better off.

[Mandolus]

[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1283841493' post='2445038']
Schatt, from what I've seen (and I believe all the relevant logs are out in the open) the GOONS government handled the NSO thing pretty calmly. Portraying it otherwise (big red letters??) only hurts the point you are trying to make. Stick to your main point, that they calmly asked for way too much and seemed to have advanced a policy of outrageous punitive damages which should be opposed, and you'll be better off.
[/quote]

Don't listen to him! Nothing can stop your holy crusade against the GOONS. [b]Nothing.[/b]

[IMG]http://i52.tinypic.com/jpj1a8.jpg[/IMG]

[i]Soon, GOONS. Soon I will strike from the shadows and your evil empire of lies and hypocrisy will come crashing down around you. And I, Schattenmann, will be the instrument of its destruction! Mwahahahahahaha![/i]

[Choader]

Even in death Smacky is still causing trouble, I think he'd be proud of that.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Biazt' timestamp='1283829210' post='2444780']
Another awful attempt at elawyering by Schattenman, complete with even more terrible attempts at humor using images. There are so many logical holes in your argument it's ridiculous. Every single comparison you try to make is faulty because none of the incidents are remotely the same unless you paint them with incredibly broad strokes.

I'd like to say I'm surprised by how the great Schattenman has stooped to such levels of intellectual dishonesty, but alas, I'm not.
[/quote]
I know a few things about intellectual dishonesty, friend.

You'll have to do better than nebulous claims and inferred insults if you want to tangle with someone of Schatt's caliber. Now then, if none of the incidents are even remotely the same, feel free to explain how they're [i]not as bad[/i] as what Dopp tried to do, compared to what your alliance did blatantly for all to see.

[quote name='Chifforobe' timestamp='1283838530' post='2444991']
Man I was just asking a question, it's my personal belief that anything you feel is important is worth fighting for, and these reps were obviously worth enough to Mister Shatt to post this thread, and I was merely curious as to the rigidity of his resolve.

The question stands, how strongly do you feel about this? If you're not willing to [b]do something about it[/b], it brings into question the true reason behind a thread like this.
[/quote]

It's as if you're making Schatt's argument for him. Honestly, you really need to learn the context.

[quote name='Heinlander' timestamp='1283838689' post='2444995']
Yup, which NSO gave us permission to do.

Face it Schatten. We're dancing circles around you.
[/quote]
Heh, interesting.

I'll take that as a challenge, then. As Ive said already, prove how the incidents which Schatt has cited are so different in context as to nullify his point about GOONs being hypocrites?

You may be able to mock him for his inability to do anything about it at present, but that is only a concession that he's correct.

An intellectual surrender, if you will.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Chron

[shahenshah]

[quote name='Hyperbad' timestamp='1283834759' post='2444909']
hmm, why does that debate of whether advisors are government sound familiar. Seriously, wasn't there a previous incident about that?
[/quote]
Yea, it was a former RoK advisor caught spying in NATO, attempting to infiltrate IRON.

[TehChron]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1283844699' post='2445061']
Yea, it was a former RoK advisor caught spying in NATO, attempting to infiltrate IRON.
[/quote]

He was referring to Doppelganger.

Anyway, I await GOONs counterstroke where they establish that they are paragons of adherence to principle while simultaneously eliminating the credibility of Schatt's argument.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Chron

[nippy]

[quote name='Chron' timestamp='1283844912' post='2445063']
Anyway, I await GOONs counterstroke where they establish that they are paragons of adherence to principle while simultaneously eliminating the credibility of Schatt's argument.
[/quote]

Sorry, Chron. You may view the long list of names that consider Schatt some sort of genius that deserves the endless brown-nosing even yourself have given him, and you will not find a single GOONS nation ruler amongst those names. His e-lawyering is sub-par, and just because he had a bit of skill putting words together doesn't mean that the content is worth anything. Case in point, this OP. What would Schattenmann be without the OWF? These little bouts of whining he likes to put on for our benefit are only that....bouts of whining. Were anyone else to do it, people would be complaining about 'private channels'. Seriously though, as if you anti-GOONS posters really needed another thread to hurrumph about in. There were already plenty to chose from.

[TehChron]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1283846684' post='2445070']
Sorry, Chron. You may view the long list of names that consider Schatt some sort of genius that deserves the endless brown-nosing even yourself have given him, and you will not find a single GOONS nation ruler amongst those names. His e-lawyering is sub-par, and just because he had a bit of skill putting words together doesn't mean that the content is worth anything. Case in point, this OP. What would Schattenmann be without the OWF? These little bouts of whining he likes to put on for our benefit are only that....bouts of whining. Were anyone else to do it, people would be complaining about 'private channels'. Seriously though, as if you anti-GOONS posters really needed another thread to hurrumph about in. There were already plenty to chose from.
[/quote]Anti-GOONs poster? Please, I actually tend to stay away from your guys' threads because I don't want to be seen disagreeing with my friends and comrades.

Now then, aside from that [i]sub-par[/i] character attack, I await your refutation of his point about your alliance's indoctrinated hypocrisy. Which you only further legitimize by refusing to deny in a conclusive manner.

By the by, what would GOONs antics be worth without a stage to present them on for all to see? The same logic you present applies to yourselves just as much. Unless you're RamirusMaximus.

Tell me, nippy, [i]are[/i] you RamirusMaximus? Because, unless you are, that's a double-edged sword you're pulling out with that argument.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Chron

[nippy]

[quote name='Chron' timestamp='1283847231' post='2445076']
Anti-GOONs poster? Please, I actually tend to stay away from your guys' threads because I don't want to be seen disagreeing with my friends and comrades.

Now then, aside from that [i]sub-par[/i] character attack, I await your refutation of his point about your alliance's indoctrinated hypocrisy. Which you only further legitimize by refusing to deny in a conclusive manner.

By the by, what would GOONs antics be worth without a stage to present them on for all to see? The same logic applies. Unless you're RamirusMaximus (kinda).
[/quote]

Reread your post. I've conveniently quoted it within my own, so that you may see your error. Schattenmann can approach us via diplomatic channels if he so desires. Fact is, this isn't about diplomacy. It's about grandstanding and mudslinging. We don't need to refute anything....not when appropriate channels are not being used, nor when response is demanded by uninvolved parties such as NSO. Sorry.

[quote name='Chron' timestamp='1283847231' post='2445076']
Tell me, nippy, [i]are[/i] you RamirusMaximus?
[/quote]

speaking of sub-par attacks....

[Kalasin]

I don't like demanding enormous reps but I still don't think either C&G or SF are anything like Q.

[TehChron]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1283847443' post='2445078']
Reread your post. I've conveniently quoted it within my own, so that you may see your error. Schattenmann can approach us via diplomatic channels if he so desires. Fact is, this isn't about diplomacy. It's about grandstanding and mudslinging. We don't need to refute anything....not when appropriate channels are not being used, nor when response is demanded by uninvolved parties such as NSO. Sorry.[/quote] I don't speak for the NSO, I am a simple individual commenting on intellectual discourse.

By the way, what error are you referring to?


[quote]Anyway, I await GOONs counterstroke where they establish that they are paragons of adherence to principle while simultaneously eliminating the credibility of Schatt's argument.
[/quote]Show me that there is ru-...er, I mean to say, show me where there is a factual error in this statement? It sounds more like an expectation of action, rather than some kind of bold and incorrect claim of dubious factual basis.

Unless my error is assuming you're capable of such a feat?

I apologize for setting my expectations so high.
[quote]
speaking of sub-par attacks....
[/quote]Oh, so you're [i]not[/i]? Excellent. Then you do care about the OWF as well, and therefore can see the contradiction inherent in that terrible, terrible argument you just made.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Chron

[xoindotnler]

Funny enough I think Schatt is on to something, normally you will be cool headed and solve a situation like this. But a person that lies about something has the habit to gets bit over protective.

[D34th]

[quote name='Heinlander' timestamp='1283836329' post='2444935']
We gave NSO a golden egg. 90mil or be rolled into dust. [b]Did you have the power to enforce a deal like that?[/b] Do you now? If so then feel free to do something about it. I'm right in your NS range; lower, infact. Prove that you're right; use your aggressive feelings. Otherwise take the advice of my comrade:
[/quote]

[i]bold mine[/i]

So what you are saying is that if you have the power you can enforce whatever deal that you want? Nice.


Also I totally support that from now on, every alliance who have a nation raided by GOONS request 90m as reparations.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1283821472' post='2444606']
[ooc] I've been away for a few days so haven't seen all the drama, sorry[/ooc]

The sanction isn't my call anymore since I'm no longer in GATO, but I'll tell they're senator not to sanction you if it makes you feel better
[/quote]
If you think he might do it then I would appreciate you telling him not to, as I'm sure you still have more say within GATO than someone from GOONS. Thanks.

[Voytek]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1283848964' post='2445084']Also I totally support that from now on, every alliance who have a nation raided by GOONS request 90m as reparations.[/quote]
hehe that will show em

Edited September 7, 2010 by Voytek

[nippy]

[quote name='Chron' timestamp='1283847737' post='2445080']
I don't speak for the NSO, I am a simple individual commenting on intellectual discourse.

By the way, what error are you referring to?
[/quote]
The error is in expecting us to address a private matter in a public forum for uninvolved parties' benefits. It certainly isn't any of your business, and it could have been addressed in private channels were Schattenmann really caring about a discrepancy in reps payment. Truth is, he doesn't really care about any of that...he only cares about making a scene. We certainly don't need to concede to an attempt at pressuring us to explain something like this. Our arguments are never heard, anyway.

[quote name='xoindotnler' timestamp='1283848242' post='2445081']
Funny enough I think Schatt is on to something, normally you will be cool headed and solve a situation like this. But a person that lies about something has the habit to gets bit over protective.
[/quote]
Cool headed enough to post a slanderous OP on the OWF? How long are you guys going to pretend the entire point of this post is monetary discrepancy? The entire point is to once again garner attention. Great success.

[Kalasin]

Honestly, when I found out Dopp had been caught aiding Methrage and been forced to pay $90m in reps, I found it *funny*.

[TehChron]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1283849407' post='2445090']
The error is in expecting us to address a private matter in a public forum for uninvolved parties' benefits. It certainly isn't any of your business, and it could have been addressed in private channels were Schattenmann really caring about a discrepancy in reps payment. Truth is, he doesn't really care about any of that...he only cares about making a scene. We certainly don't need to concede to an attempt at pressuring us to explain something like this. Our arguments are never heard, anyway.
[/quote] Can't expect anyone to hear an argument you don't make. By the way, why is whether or not you're a hypocrite a "private matter"?

Come to think of it, actually, this kind of [i]is[/i] my business. Why was it such a life-and-death situation for my alliance, and conversely, why is it only a minor distraction when you and yours do so? That goes back to your own hypocrisy, which is the point Schatt is making.

Now then, if you're arguing that you don't [i]need[/i] to do something you can do easily, then it's relatively obvious you're just making excuses for the fact you simply can not.

I mean, it's not like the possibility of making a scene has ever stopped your alliance's antics before.

So, back on subject: How are you any different? Are you saying you need to go into private channels in order for us all to get in on this super-secret key to your own honesty? That's funny if you seriously think that's a legitimate dismissal, it's not.

I mean, really, you and your alliance make scenes whenever it pleases you. It's incredible you'd make such a blatantly hypocritical statement.

[quote]Cool headed enough to post a slanderous OP on the OWF? How long are you guys going to pretend the entire point of this post is monetary discrepancy? The entire point is to once again garner attention. Great success.
[/quote]

Your concession to the validity of the points actually made in the OP, rather than your straw mans, is duly noted.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Chron

[nippy]

[quote name='Chron' timestamp='1283850124' post='2445095']
words
[/quote]

Looks like you're going to be left wanting. Pity.

[TehChron]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1283850715' post='2445099']
Looks like you're going to be left wanting. Pity.
[/quote]
Hardly, I simply came here to back up a friend.

Seeing you make his case for him has left me deeply satisfied, thank you. Im looking forward to the time when you feel an actual need to justify yourself in this place. Should be interesting to see your shuffling of stances then, as well.

Besides:

[quote name='Chron' timestamp='1283850124' post='2445095']

Your concession to the validity of the points actually made in the OP, rather than your straw mans, is duly noted.
[/quote]
I got what I came for.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Chron

[Sephiroth]

With GOONS tech raiding dozens of aligned nations a day, its only a matter of time until some of those tech raiders hit the wrong alliance and get GOONS stuck with a bill of $90m in punitive 'reps'. That would be good to see.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1283851884' post='2445104']
With GOONS tech raiding dozens of aligned nations a day, its only a matter of time until some of those tech raiders hit the wrong alliance and get GOONS stuck with a bill of $90m in punitive 'reps'. That would be good to see.
[/quote]
No, the entire point of GOONs even asking for that much is because they know that will never happen.

Please stop being ridiculous. You're de-legitimizing the argument.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Chron' timestamp='1283852086' post='2445105']
No, the entire point of GOONs even asking for that much is because they know that will never happen.

Please stop being ridiculous. You're de-legitimizing the argument.
[/quote]
They probably wouldn't pay it, but if an alliance wants to hit them back rather than let the tech raid slide, they could ask $90m reps without sounding unreasonable after the demands GOONS have made here. If GOONS doesn't pay they would have a good CB to attack.

The reason GOONS ask so much in reps is because they do expect to get really harsh terms and likely forced to disband again, so as long as they are on the winning side they take advantage of it by doing whatever they can get away with and trying to get as much attention as they can.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1283852644' post='2445109']
They probably wouldn't pay it, but if an alliance wants to hit them back rather than let the tech raid slide, they could ask $90m reps without sounding unreasonable after the demands GOONS have made here. If GOONS doesn't pay they would have a good CB to attack.

The reason GOONS ask so much in reps is because they do expect to get really harsh terms and likely forced to disband again, so as long as they are on the winning side they take advantage of it by doing whatever they can get away with and trying to get as much attention as they can.
[/quote]
No...you're thinking too hard about it.

They just don't care. They're blatant hypocrites, they do what they want because they made the right connections for it through whatever means, and they really don't care about stuff like logical consistency so long as they can get away with applying double standards.

I mean, there's nothing inherently [i]wrong[/i] with being a hypocrite, it isn't hazardous to your health or anything. It's just honestly quite reflective of the character of the individuals in question.

But, like I said, they don't really care about stuff like that.

[Captain Flinders]

I hope you get your money CoJ.