GOONS owes me $90,000,000

[Einswald]

Will you take a check?

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1283824616' post='2444675']
Generally I agree with you Schattenman, and I won't comment on the GOONS raiding your protectorate issue as I tend to agree that what is good for the goose is good for the gander, but I will say that I disagree that because 3m or any amount of aid to a combatant is not enough to turn the tide of war, it should be ignored.

The principle is that allowing your enemies to receive aid could EVENTUALLY result in turning a tide, especially if it allows them to get out of bill lock or buy another nuke (or infra to get them back over 1k, or whatever), and so examples do need to be made and penance paid. Things left unchecked eventually run rampant, as we know all too well in this world.
[/quote]

Who decides who gets made an example of and who gets hailed for the same actions?

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1283825146' post='2444690']
Who decides who gets made an example of and who gets hailed for the same actions?
[/quote]
Might makes right. C'mon Schatt you know this.

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1283825903' post='2444697']
Might makes right. C'mon Schatt you know this.
[/quote]

That would essentially be my answer, I suppose. I mean, if I was the smaller party and someone aided my enemy, would I try to make an example of that person and get reps? I would. Do I expect that I would receive them? No.

[Ruhani]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1283820835' post='2444593']
Crying and making a mega wall of words will stop GOONS for sure this time

Schatt, do something real about it. Go on the battlefield with your anger or shut up.
[/quote]

We've yet to see you do something similar.

[the rebel]

"GOONS" shown to be hypocrites within 24hrs, priceless

[RePePe]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1283824641' post='2444678']
Your attempt at character assassination does nothing to remove the fact that we attempted to make amends for our mistake.
[/quote]

Haven't you stayed current on the latest trends in [i]The Bob[/i] magazine?

Making amends for mistakes is so last month. Nowadays, we just skip to the "You Must Atone for Your Actions" part of the process. It's much more fashionable.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1283826179' post='2444698']
That would essentially be my answer, I suppose. I mean, if I was the smaller party and someone aided my enemy, would I try to make an example of that person and get reps? I would. Do I expect that I would receive them? No.
[/quote]
So you're among those who throw their hands up and say "good thing it wasn't me this time!" I'm glad you're OK with alliances strongarming cash out of other alliances leveraged by war for practices they themselves espouse, there's a lot of money to be made in by-association reps when you jump onto the winning side of wars a week after declarations.

[Grumpdogg]

I look forward to seeing GOONS uphold the same standards they force upon other alliances. It's funny how many new rules and punishments keep appearing in this brave new world of freedom. Perhaps they could be codified into some sort of easy to read doctrine?

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1283824641' post='2444678']
Your attempt at character assassination does nothing to remove the fact that we attempted to make amends for our mistake.
[/quote]
What makes your mistakes worth 4.5m and NSO's mistakes worth $90,000,000?

[quote name='Grumpdogg' timestamp='1283826631' post='2444715']
I look forward to seeing GOONS uphold the same standards they force upon other alliances. It's funny how many new rules and punishments keep appearing in this brave new world of freedom. Perhaps they could be codified into some sort of easy to read doctrine?
[/quote]

What we need is, we need some sort of super grievances department where people can either argue their position, or get told to go back to the end of the line. Decisions will be based on treaty relationships and not standards.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Schattenmann

[JT Jag]

Quick, let's all think of properly biting responses to this fresh and intellectually stimulating topic based on our positions on the treaty web.

Edited September 7, 2010 by JT Jag

[DeadAnimal]

[quote name='Grumpdogg' timestamp='1283826631' post='2444715']
I look forward to seeing GOONS uphold the same standards they force upon other alliances. It's funny how many new rules and punishments keep appearing in this brave new world of freedom. Perhaps they could be codified into some sort of easy to read doctrine?
[/quote]

I'll take a shot at it: Everything we do it right by definition, and everything done by people we don't like is wrong by definition. Penalty to range from ridicule to 30X incidence in punitive damages, along with reparations.

[BlkAK47_002]

Well thought out and written Schatt, I doubt GOONS will forumulate a coherent response to this but I respect you for trying.

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1283826612' post='2444713']
So you're among those who throw their hands up and say "good thing it wasn't me this time!" I'm glad you're OK with alliances strongarming cash out of other alliances leveraged by war for practices they themselves espouse, there's a lot of money to be made in by-association reps when you jump onto the winning side of wars a week after declarations.
[/quote]

Please don't put words in my mouth. I agree that alliances should receive reps when someone aids a person they are at war with. That is all I wanted to bring to this argument. Furthermore I have been on one "side" for my entire CN career, and I will not apologize if that is currently the side that is "winning", I was "losing" and strongarmed plenty myself for a long time.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1283827026' post='2444723']
Please don't put words in my mouth. I agree that alliances should receive reps when someone aids a person they are at war with. That is all I wanted to bring to this argument. [/quote]
But you won't say when it's too much, or when it's right or wrong to do it, or condemn the might-makes-right attitude that you proceed to claim you suffered under . . .
[quote] Furthermore I have been on one "side" for my entire CN career, and I will not apologize if that is currently the side that is "winning", I was "losing" and strongarmed plenty myself for a long time.
[/quote]
So now it's your "side's" turn and even though GOONS was a protectorate of NpO, and NSO didn't even exist when you were getting noogied in the locker room by Continuum, NSO can rot because they've got a lot of ex-Heg in them.

If I'm interpreting this wrong it's because you're being obtuse to the breaking point.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Schattenmann

[The MVP]

GOONS, historically, has preferred to ally itself with the more powerful side. Even until the Unjust War it was only on the losing side due to the efforts of Sponge to isolate and destroy the Unjust Path. In order to be "GOONS" they need alliances like PC/Umbrella/MK to write them blank checks and allow them to do what they do and get away with it and not only that but be called [i]merciful[/i] of all things.

For those that don't remember, Pacifica and her allies operated in a similar fashion. Negate the true meaning of the terms handed down and quickly hail a thread in order to remove any shred of doubt that these terms are indeed [i]merciful [/i]and [i]understanding[/i].

Oh well. Well written Schattenmann. <clap> <clap> <clap>

Edited September 7, 2010 by The MVP

[Raider]

[quote name='kerschbs' timestamp='1283822295' post='2444621']
If only you had enough political clout to make GOONS pay. Unfortunately, I see them getting off lightly, despite the fact that they are a terrible alliance who aren't worth the friends they have.
[/quote]
That hurts kerscbs. On the inside.

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1283826612' post='2444713']
So you're among those who throw their hands up and say "good thing it wasn't me this time!" I'm glad you're OK with alliances strongarming cash out of other alliances leveraged by war for practices they themselves espouse, there's a lot of money to be made in by-association reps when you jump onto the winning side of wars a week after declarations.
[/quote]
Might makes right. You want everyone to do suicide runs against the treaty activations that will come if something is done about it to GOONS on the battlefield?

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1283826680' post='2444717']
What makes your mistakes worth 4.5m and NSO's mistakes worth $90,000,000?

What we need is, we need some sort of super grievances department where people can either argue their position, or get told to go back to the end of the line. Decisions will be based on treaty relationships and not standards.
[/quote]
Might makes right. One day Schatt when the power flips you can break out this same CB, cuz CBs have a long shelf life, amirite Athens and ROK

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1283827301' post='2444729']
But you won't say when it's too much, or when it's right or wrong to do it, or condemn the might-makes-right attitude that you proceed to claim you suffered under . . .

So now it's your "side's" turn and even though GOONS was a protectorate of NpO, and NSO didn't even exist when you were getting noogied in the locker room by Continuum, NSO can rot because they've got a lot of ex-Heg in them.

If I'm interpreting this wrong it's because you're being obtuse to the breaking point.
[/quote]
Might Makes Right will always rule the day. Someone will always be suffering under it.

And LOLNSO can rot because they are lead poorly and they are digging their own grave right next to GGA and \m/.

[Balder]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1283827301' post='2444729']
If I'm interpreting this wrong it's because you're being obtuse to the breaking point.
[/quote]

Hey now! I think Kev is acute .

Aiding an enemy is an act of war. It's just a shame GOONS decided to let them off.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Balder

[Grumpdogg]

[quote name='Balder' timestamp='1283827951' post='2444745']
Hey now! I think Kev is acute .

Aiding an enemy is an act of war. It's just a shame GOONS decided to let them off.
[/quote]

And let them off so lightly too!

No wait hang on. Was your lobotomy free? Where can I sign up?

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1283827301' post='2444729']
But you won't say when it's too much, or when it's right or wrong to do it, or condemn the might-makes-right attitude that you proceed to claim you suffered under . . .

If I'm interpreting this wrong it's because you're being obtuse to the breaking point.
[/quote]

I would say if it was too much. $90m is not too much for an alliance that should know better. They are lucky reps was even an option to them.

Would it be too much for say, Organization XIII (I chose them because I just read their DoE), yes, it would be.

But of course your response will be "who are you to decide", and well, I'm no one, tbh. But I am giving my opinion.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1283828244' post='2444754']
I would say if it was too much. $90m is not too much for an alliance that should know better. They are lucky reps was even an option to them.
[/quote]
So GOONS [i]does[/i] owe CoJ $90,000,000! I mean they know better, right?

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1283828391' post='2444756']
So GOONS [i]does[/i] owe CoJ $90,000,000! I mean they know better, right?
[/quote]

Did you ask for $90m? Did you ask for anything? They don't owe something that was never asked for.

[Grumpdogg]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1283828529' post='2444760']
Did you ask for $90m? Did you ask for anything? They don't owe something that was never asked for.
[/quote]

Did you read the OP? Did you read anything? You cannot comprehend something that was never read.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Grumpdogg

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1283828244' post='2444754']
But of course your response will be "who are you to decide", and well, I'm no one, tbh. But I am giving my opinion.
[/quote]
On the contrary, I think it's up to all of us to decide. I thought we had all decided two years ago, actually. But it looks like most of us forgot.