Joint VE/GOONS Announcement

[Cobalt]

At first I was like "ew, GOONS", then goldie was all "yo man, join this sweet channel we have to get to know GOONS" and I was like "aight, sounds dope" so I joined it and started talking with GOONS and started taking classes on how to be more oppressive. After a while I realized I was all "damn, these GOONS are actually a bunch of normal, chill peoples". Then people were all "What about a treaty with them" and I was like "word."

[nippy]

[quote name='Tungsten' timestamp='1282673582' post='2429616']
At first I was like "ew, GOONS", then goldie was all "yo man, join this sweet channel we have to get to know GOONS" and I was like "aight, sounds dope" so I joined it and started talking with GOONS and started taking classes on how to be more oppressive. After a while I realized I was all "damn, these GOONS are actually a bunch of normal, chill peoples". Then people were all "What about a treaty with them" and I was like "word."
[/quote]

mad props ta yall yo n' u keep runnin' da famli biz da way u doin' brah, dat !@#$ is tight, yo. Keep it rillz, brah.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Dayshade' timestamp='1282661196' post='2429427']
I'm liking the emblem a lot. . .
[/quote]

It was the artwork that won us over, isn't it just freaking awesome?

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1282627288' post='2428903']
VE treaties [i]another[/i] MK ally. This is the point at which I feign surprise.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Considering that both MK and VE are allied to nearly every single alliance out there it really should not come as much of a surprise that you may share a few treaty partners.[/color]

[Dr Beefstupid]

GOONS are horrible horrible people and VE should be ashamed for being friends with someone that we don't like. The nerve of them, having diplomatic relations. Makes me sick.

There. Now we can just put the above paragraph on a for loop and have it continue for fifteen pages.

[Smooth]

[quote name='Bill Wallace' timestamp='1282661504' post='2429433']
I'm somewhat perplexed by how many people regard VE as a moralist alliance. Sure, we don't tech raid, but we've never been one to tell others they shouldn't. Of course there is the ZI Peace Pact, but we have very close allies who did not sign the document. It is impossible to agree with your allies on every issue nor would it be healthy. To each their own.I mean sure, Bob Janova, a highly respected member of the community is a Viridian and he makes no bones about being a moralist, but I don't think many would mistake Impero as a moralist. We're a mixed bag and therein lies our strength. You're not going to find 300 sycophants mindlessly following a cult of personality in the VE.And to those who are surprised at this announcement, understand that this didn't happen overnight. All I can say is that if you take the time and really get to know these guys, you'll find that they are genuinely good people who are undeserving of the negative labels that have been placed on them by many in the community. Count me as one who is glad to see this treaty happen.
[/quote]

This here is one quality post, no matter what side of this HORRIBLE ISSUE you are on. o/ to you my brother/

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1282666247' post='2429474']
That much blue text can only mean something cool happened.o/ VEo/ GOONS
[/quote]

OOC: I actually laughed at this.
IC: Anytime I see that much blue text I know I can mindlessly hail the topic

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1282670514' post='2429560']
This I can agree to. Sadly, too many [i](*not* all)[/i] of those who do have their own mind and think for themselves are also too afraid to say so to the right person/people.
[/quote]

Not true. You and your "clan" (for want of a better term) had problems communicating. This does not have any bearing whatsoever upon the feelings, views, or actions of the rest of the alliance.

Edit: wordsmithing

Edited August 24, 2010 by Smooth

[Cobalt]

having read through the last 13 pages, I have learned several things, which I will list below:

-GOONS is evil
-VE is a moralist alliance
-VE is compromising its morals by signing with GOONS
-"Old GOONS"® and "New GOONS"© are the same, even though they have different members, leaders, policies, etc.
[color=blue]-Colored text makes your posts [/color][color=red]37% more logical and [/color][color=purple]53% wittier[/color]
-If you're in NpO you probably have issues with this treaty
-VE are a bunch of tough guys who don't care what you think

Thank you for the education.

[Bavaricar]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1282660703' post='2429423']
I'm actually more surprised that GOONS signed with VE than that VE signed with GOONS.
[/quote]

Interesting take that does raise some questions... What do you find surprising about it?

If we look for how this could be a liability to the GOONS I don't see it, especially since they win in the first articles and come out with no net loss on the optionals in the A and D.

So, in your view or interpretation, how might this treaty harm the GOONS?

[Ardus]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1282695364' post='2430112']
Interesting take that does raise some questions... What do you find surprising about it?

If we look for how this could be a liability to the GOONS I don't see it, especially since they win in the first articles and come out with no net loss on the optionals in the A and D.

So, in your view or interpretation, how might this treaty harm the GOONS?
[/quote]
I believe he was referring less to its benefit/harm to GOONS and more on GOONS' basic opinion of VE. It's no secret the two didn't get along first run around the block. That VE's opinion of GOONS in light of the Green Civil War has changed is one thing. That GOONS don't disdain VE on a fundamental level as they once did is another. It's the flip perspective of the "oh how you've changed" discussion.

[Jakome]

This ODP will lead to the downfall of both alliances

[Joe Stupid]

Congrats to our allies in VE.

[Bavaricar]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1282699140' post='2430176']
I believe he was referring less to its benefit/harm to GOONS and more on GOONS' basic opinion of VE. It's no secret the two didn't get along first run around the block. That VE's opinion of GOONS in light of the Green Civil War has changed is one thing. That GOONS don't disdain VE on a fundamental level as they once did is another. It's the flip perspective of the "oh how you've changed" discussion.
[/quote]

Thank you. That is a reasonable explanation (and quite a funny too if the GOONS really believe this) but I wonder if it was what Schattenman meant.

[Omniscient1]

Congrats to VE and GOONS.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Omniscient1

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282684835' post='2429859']
[color="#0000FF"]Considering that both MK and VE are allied to nearly every single alliance out there it really should not come as much of a surprise that you may share a few treaty partners.[/color]
[/quote]

I'd take "every single alliance" over your spineless and equally worthless allies.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1282703989' post='2430305']
I'd take "every single alliance" over your spineless and equally worthless allies.
[/quote]

Is that level arrogance natural or did you go to Francograd to get an implant? While it's possible you actually developed that naturally, and by the way if so, then I genuinely feel sorry for you, I sense some sort of artificial enhancement.

[D34th]

[quote name='Tungsten' timestamp='1282695281' post='2430110']

-If you're in NpO you probably have issues with this treaty

[/quote]

You forgot one:

-If you're in VE, you probably don't have argumentation skills and just talk about the AA of the people not about their post.

[Hydro]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1282704410' post='2430314']
Is that level arrogance natural or did you go to Francograd to get an implant? While it's possible you actually developed that naturally, and by the way if so, then I genuinely feel sorry for you, I sense some sort of artificial enhancement.
[/quote]

Breast implants FTW.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1282704652' post='2430318']
You forgot one:

-If you're in VE, you probably don't have argumentation skills and just talk about the AA of the people not about their post.


[/quote]

I'll take exception to that, thanks

Also, is this [i]ODP [/i]thread still drawing a crowd?

Edited August 25, 2010 by Il Impero Romano

[Cobalt]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1282704652' post='2430318']
You forgot one:

-If you're in VE, you probably don't have argumentation skills and just talk about the AA of the people not about their post.


[/quote]

Awww, how cute! You used the old "STOP LOOKING AT MY AA AND DEAL WITH MY ARGUMENT" tactic. To make it even [i]more[/i] effective, you might want to use it in situations where it actually applies, not just whenever someone happens to name drop your AA in a thread.

If you have trouble with that, I run classes every Thursday from 9pm to 11pm Eastern. Send 3m + 50tech to my nation to receive details.

[D34th]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1282705368' post='2430332']
I'll take exception to that, thanks
[/quote]

Granted.

[quote name='Tungsten' timestamp='1282705520' post='2430336']
Awww, how cute! You used the old "STOP LOOKING AT MY AA AND DEAL WITH MY ARGUMENT" tactic.
[/quote]

Yeah, awful tactic I know.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1282625630' post='2428821']
And now there's a GOONS with completely different leadership and VE is being a generous alliance who's willing to give them a second chance.

Amazing isn't it?
[/quote]


[quote name='Tungsten' timestamp='1282695281' post='2430110']

-"Old GOONS"® and "New GOONS"© are the same, even though they have different members, leaders, policies, etc.
[/quote]

I don't know what's so hard for people to understand about this.
GOONS current wiki lists these gov members:
[list][*]Pilot Sardonic [color="#8B0000"]Original GOONS[/color]
[*]Co-Pilot [b]Any knowledge you have of ban evaders must be reported.[/b] (this gov member's name is filtered, comically demonstrating my point) [color="#8B0000"]Original GOONS and \m/[/color]
[*]Secretariat Ktarthan [color="#8B0000"]not sure[/color]
[*]Sexretariat Lenku [color="#8B0000"]not sure[/color]
[*]Strategos Nippy [color="#8B0000"]Original GOONS[/color]
[*]Dongmaster I M Tpl [color="#8B0000"]Original GOONS[/color]
[*]Newbie Wrangler Slide [color="#8B0000"]not sure[/color]
[*]Emeritus Lamuella, Bloodjewel [color="#8B0000"]both original GOONS[/color]
[*]Council Tristesse, Broazt, Kim Il Sung [color="#8B0000"]not sure on any of these.[/color]
[/list]
At least 6 of the 12 gov were Goon Order of Neutral Shoving. Current GOONS pulls from the same forum--the same culture--as Neutral Shoving. The only difference between this GOONS and Neutral Shoving is that these goons care about their nations, and are therefore more politically-minded. I generally stay out of the good/bad GOONS thing, but the fact of the matter is that the only people that ever start talking about how much this GOONS is different from [i]that[/i] GOONS, or how many different people are in charge (which is downright false) are people that find themselves cuddling up with GOONS and needing some damage control.

If you're going to ally yourself with GOONS, be a grownup about it.

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1282701181' post='2430232']
Thank you. That is a reasonable explanation (and quite a funny too if the GOONS really believe this) but I wonder if it was what Schattenman meant.
[/quote]
Yeah. VE is the sort of alliance goons generally snicker about in the private channel and call gaywads whenever they get the chance, so--to me--it's more surprising that GOONS signed with VE than that VE signed another left-field, grapeshot, we-have-no-concept-of-unified-foreign-policy treaty, which is what the observant ruler knows to expect from an alliance that puts defending other alliances above defending its own character.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Schattenmann

[D34th]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1282706829' post='2430379']
I don't know what's so hard for people to understand about this.
GOONS current wiki lists these gov members:
[list][*]Pilot Sardonic [color="#8B0000"]Original GOONS[/color]
[*]Co-Pilot Any knowledge you have of ban evaders must be reported. [color="#8B0000"]Original GOONS and \m/[/color]
[*]Secretariat Ktarthan [color="#8B0000"]not sure[/color]
[*]Sexretariat Lenku [color="#8B0000"]not sure[/color]
[*]Strategos Nippy [color="#8B0000"]Original GOONS[/color]
[*]Dongmaster I M Tpl [color="#8B0000"]Original GOONS[/color]
[*]Newbie Wrangler Slide [color="#8B0000"]not sure[/color]
[*]Emeritus Lamuella, Bloodjewel [color="#8B0000"]both original GOONS[/color]
[*]Council Tristesse, Broazt, Kim Il Sung [color="#8B0000"]not sure on any of these.[/color]
[/list]
At least 6 of the 12 gov were Goon Order of Neutral Shoving. Current GOONS pulls from the same forum--the same culture--as Neutral Shoving. The only difference between this GOONS and Neutral Shoving is that these goons care about their nations, and are therefore more politically-minded.


Yeah. VE is the sort of alliance goons generally snicker about in the private channel and call gaywads whenever they get the chance, so--to me--it's more surprising that GOONS signed with VE than that VE signed another left-field, grapeshot, we-have-no-concept-of-unified-foreign-policy treaty, which is what the observant ruler knows to expect from an alliance that puts defending other alliances above defending its own character.
[/quote]

Predicting VE's responses to your post: [i]You're in CoJ therefore your argument is invalid.[/i ; [i]CoJ hates VE therefore your argument is invalid[/i] ; "[i]Your tears are delicious"[/i] or [i]"Haters gonna hate"[/i]

[img]http://komplexify.com/images/2009/Invalid1.jpg[/img]

Edited August 25, 2010 by D34th

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1282706829' post='2430379']
If you're going to ally yourself with GOONS, be a grownup about it.[/quote]

Well played sir, well played. +1 Internet.

[quote]Yeah. VE is the sort of alliance goons generally snicker about in the private channel and call gaywads whenever they get the chance, so--to me--it's more surprising that GOONS signed with VE than that VE signed another left-field, grapeshot, we-have-no-concept-of-unified-foreign-policy treaty, which is what the observant ruler knows to expect from an alliance that puts defending other alliances above defending its own character.[/quote]

I would generally disagree with your characterization of VE based on getting to know them during my time in Rok. However, I do concur that this treaty seems out of character for VE. They seem to think it isn't, but much like the honor student that suddenly starts dating the kid that can't seem to stay out of detention, I suppose we'll have to get used to it while it lasts.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1282707191' post='2430389']
Predicting VE's responses to your post: [i]You're in CoJ therefore your argument is invalid.[/i ; [i]CoJ hates VE therefore your argument is invalid[/i] ; "[i]Your tears are delicious"[/i] or [i]"Haters gonna hate"[/i]
[/quote]

It's not that CoJ hates VE, it's that VE is abhorrent to Justitia and as Presbyter of CoJ I am bound to express Her will on Bob. I will not shirk my responsibilities. I'd like to say I like a lot of GOONS personally, but politically we just don't meet and some in gov can't separate the two.

Anyway, every argument about VE is claimed invalid because VE changes its stance more than it changes its underwear in order to justify every move they ever make. There are people in VE that say they never disbanded, so one begins to see that there's no hope, just a bit of fun to be had in watching what you can get them to say long enough to start quoting their contradictions within the same thread.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1282707887' post='2430406']
Well played sir, well played. +1 Internet.[/quote]
I have always tried to speak plain truths, even if mostly in the most flowery language.

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1282707887' post='2430406']
I would generally disagree with your characterization of VE based on getting to know them during my time in Rok. However, I do concur that this treaty seems out of character for VE. They seem to think it isn't, but much like the honor student that suddenly starts dating the kid that can't seem to stay out of detention, I suppose we'll have to get used to it while it lasts.
[/quote]
VE's problem is that they talk out of both sides of their mouth. They think of themselves as infallible and envision themselves atop a snow-white Clydesdale, so they do whatever they feel like doing without regard to how it meshes with what they say, they say whatever they think will win an argument without regard to how it [never] meshes with reality, and they end up all over the place. They're also obsessed with perception, so they try to propagate their self-image to the masses with sweeping gestures like ZIPP, Karma, the Sponge Logs, etc, but after 4 years (or however long they say they've been around without counting May-Sept 2007) they have no understanding of the "vote with your feet" concept that rules Planet Bob and its application to endorsement by treaty on the inter-alliance level. They're a mess.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Schattenmann