Joint VE/GOONS Announcement

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1282706829' post='2430379']
I don't know what's so hard for people to understand about this.
GOONS current wiki lists these gov members:
[list][*]Pilot Sardonic [color="#8B0000"]Original GOONS[/color]
[*]Co-Pilot [b]Any knowledge you have of ban evaders must be reported.[/b] (this gov member's name is filtered, comically demonstrating my point) [color="#8B0000"]Original GOONS and \m/[/color]
[*]Secretariat Ktarthan [color="#8B0000"]not sure[/color]
[*]Sexretariat Lenku [color="#8B0000"]not sure[/color]
[*]Strategos Nippy [color="#8B0000"]Original GOONS[/color]
[*]Dongmaster I M Tpl [color="#8B0000"]Original GOONS[/color]
[*]Newbie Wrangler Slide [color="#8B0000"]not sure[/color]
[*]Emeritus Lamuella, Bloodjewel [color="#8B0000"]both original GOONS[/color]
[*]Council Tristesse, Broazt, Kim Il Sung [color="#8B0000"]not sure on any of these.[/color]
[/list]
At least 6 of the 12 gov were Goon Order of Neutral Shoving. Current GOONS pulls from the same forum--the same culture--as Neutral Shoving. The only difference between this GOONS and Neutral Shoving is that these goons care about their nations, and are therefore more politically-minded. I generally stay out of the good/bad GOONS thing, but the fact of the matter is that the only people that ever start talking about how much this GOONS is different from [i]that[/i] GOONS, or how many different people are in charge (which is downright false) are people that find themselves cuddling up with GOONS and needing some damage control.

If you're going to ally yourself with GOONS, be a grownup about it.


Yeah. VE is the sort of alliance goons generally snicker about in the private channel and call gaywads whenever they get the chance, so--to me--it's more surprising that GOONS signed with VE than that VE signed another left-field, grapeshot, we-have-no-concept-of-unified-foreign-policy treaty, which is what the observant ruler knows to expect from an alliance that puts defending other alliances above defending its own character.
[/quote]
Your ignorance shines like a beacon as ever Schatt, aside from the fact that the wiki is highly outdated (the current gov are in the OP in fact) you remain ignorant about the nature of what it means to be a goon. The old GOONS' government in the end was dominated by a certain type of goon, not representative of the culture as a whole. Moreover, I dare say it is entirely possible for a member of an alliance to have different views than their leadership, especially when the actions of said leadership gets the entire alliance murdered.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1282708547' post='2430428']
Your ignorance shines like a beacon as ever Schatt, aside from the fact that the wiki is highly outdated (the current gov are in the OP in fact) you remain ignorant about the nature of what it means to be a goon. The old GOONS' government in the end was dominated by a certain type of goon, not representative of the culture as a whole. Moreover, I dare say it is entirely possible for a member of an alliance to have different views than their leadership, especially when the actions of said leadership gets the entire alliance murdered.
[/quote]
Cool story bro. Explain what bearing this has on the fact that 2/3s of GOONS's founders were Neutral Shoving GOONS. Forgive me! [i]Last week[/i] half your gov were Neutral Shoving, [i]this week[/i] democracy did its dance and [i]everything is different[/i] now!

edit: It just occurred to me that this "outdated" wiki thing presents a golden opportunity to point out that GOONS loves to blame outdated wikis for its mistakes.

As I said, GOONS differences with Neutral Shoving are all cosmetic. Different charter and system of government, but basically the same attitudes with more of an eye to continuing existence (not to be confused with survivalism which I am not claiming), and less NS and political capital. GOONS operates pretty much the same as Neutral Shoving, has the same membership. Is this GOONS different in that it's less likely to start some suicide war? I think the answer to that question is another question: "When [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showuser=2116"]banned member[/url] was telling GGA to shove it pre-UjW, did she think she was committing suicide?"

Please pull your \m/ thong out of your crack and understand that I'm not--and didn't--say it's bad or good, just that it's silly for people to try and equivocate on their dealings with GOONS by claiming there's some super-duper differences that really just don't exist.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Schattenmann

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1282709490' post='2430456']
Cool story bro. Explain what bearing this has on the fact that 2/3s of GOONS's founders were Neutral Shoving GOONS. Forgive me! [i]Last week[/i] half your gov were Neutral Shoving, [i]this week[/i] democracy did its dance and [i]everything is different[/i] now!

edit: It just occurred to me that this "outdated" wiki thing presents a golden opportunity to point out that GOONS loves to blame outdated wikis for its mistakes.

As I said, GOONS differences with Neutral Shoving are all cosmetic. Different charter and system of government, but basically the same attitudes with more of an eye to continuing existence (not to be confused with survivalism which I am not claiming), and less NS and political capital. GOONS operates pretty much the same as Neutral Shoving, has the same membership. Is this GOONS different in that it's less likely to start some suicide war? I think the answer to that question is another question: "When [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showuser=2116"]banned member[/url] was telling GGA to shove it pre-UjW, did she think she was committing suicide?"

Please pull your \m/ thong out of your crack and understand that I'm not--and didn't--say it's bad or good, just that it's silly for people to try and equivocate on their dealings with GOONS by claiming there's some super-duper differences that really just don't exist.
[/quote]

I expected you here much earlier, Schattenmann. You are, after all, our favorite fanboy.

Break back out that avatar!

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1282709490' post='2430456']
Cool story bro. Explain what bearing this has on the fact that 2/3s of GOONS's founders were Neutral Shoving GOONS. Forgive me! [i]Last week[/i] half your gov were Neutral Shoving, [i]this week[/i] democracy did its dance and [i]everything is different[/i] now!

edit: It just occurred to me that this "outdated" wiki thing presents a golden opportunity to point out that GOONS loves to blame outdated wikis for its mistakes.

As I said, GOONS differences with Neutral Shoving are all cosmetic. Different charter and system of government, but basically the same attitudes with more of an eye to continuing existence (not to be confused with survivalism which I am not claiming), and less NS and political capital. GOONS operates pretty much the same as Neutral Shoving, has the same membership. Is this GOONS different in that it's less likely to start some suicide war? I think the answer to that question is another question: "When [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showuser=2116"]banned member[/url] was telling GGA to shove it pre-UjW, did she think she was committing suicide?"

Please pull your \m/ thong out of your crack and understand that I'm not--and didn't--say it's bad or good, just that it's silly for people to try and equivocate on their dealings with GOONS by claiming there's some super-duper differences that really just don't exist.
[/quote]

From working with government from both the old and new GOONS I can safely say there are several differences with how they interact with others. Of course they do still do the occasional thing you and I might disagree with, overall their interactions with other alliances and nation leaders in general seem to be a lot more mannered than in the past when you actually approach them to speak about matters.

[Rebel Virginia]

[color="#0000FF"]Schatt, have I told you how much I love you lately? But yes, moving on. He's got a valid point. The new GOONS does draw from the same membership as the original, and its attitudes are more or less the same. Granted they have been somewhat tamer than the old, but the fact they are still quite small may have something to do with that. Really, it is only a matter of time before they are up to their old antics. We've already seen tastes of what is to come. Trust me on this. I have a reputation for being a bit of a prophet.

You sunk my battleship.[/color]

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282713383' post='2430517']
[color="#0000FF"]Schatt, have I told you how much I love you lately? [/color]
[/quote]

Good grief, after reading through this thread even [i]I'm[/i] starting to like Schatt for his posting here.

In other news hell has frozen over.

[Smooth]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1282707887' post='2430406']
I would generally disagree with your characterization of VE based on getting to know them during my time in Rok. However, I do concur that this treaty seems out of character for VE. They seem to think it isn't, but much like the honor student that suddenly starts dating the kid that can't seem to stay out of detention, I suppose we'll have to get used to it while it lasts.
[/quote]
I don't believe any in VE have stated it wasn't "out of character." We have all acknowledged that there are some glaring differences between our two alliances. However, our government's continued stance in this thread as proof, the Entente looks for things in relationships other than similarities.

I like you, Hal, but maybe you and Death can make a fan club of ignoring what we are saying and parroting the same thing over again.

Also, Death, haters gonna hate.

And RV and co: I honestly do not understand why you must continue to tripe on about the Green Civil War when it happened over three years ago. People change, friendships evolve, and wounds are healed in time. If the alliance that went through that suffering can get over it, I think so can you.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Smooth

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Smooth' timestamp='1282715413' post='2430559']
And RV and co: I honestly do not understand why you must continue to tripe on about the Green Civil War when it happened over three years ago. People change, friendships evolve, and wounds are healed in time. If the alliance that went through that suffering can get over it, I think so can you.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I don't think I've said anything about the Green Civil War. I could care less about it. I simply think GOONS are scum and VE is an alliance of opportunistic weasels, and a disgrace to the name of a once great alliance and the values for which it stood for. Don't get me wrong. You two are a great match. Some of the lowest the world has to offer. It's a match made in paradise.

You sunk my battleship.[/color]

[Smooth]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282715873' post='2430565']
[color="#0000FF"]I don't think I've said anything about the Green Civil War. I could care less about it. I simply think GOONS are scum and VE is an alliance of opportunistic weasels, and a disgrace to the name of a once great alliance and the values for which it stood for. Don't get me wrong. You two are a great match. Some of the lowest the world has to offer. It's a match made in paradise.

You sunk my battleship.[/color]
[/quote]
And the opportunism in this would be...?

Oh, a "once great alliance" with "values you've stood for." Find me a post of you praising the Entente, bro, in all the 4 years I've been on this planet with you. Would those values be laughing with GOONS in Initiative government channels at the League? Or would that be the values in which you played a part in the Great Civil War? Or could it be when your alliance attacked FAN? Or wait, was it the other curbstomps you, as a government member of the Pacific, no matter what level, were involved in? Or perhaps you are the opportunistic one that is now complaining about "curbstomps" and "terms" and "evil treaty partners"

And I assume you call us "opportunistic" because we sided with NPO and then grew apart from them, and now are firmly routed in the opposite side, all while avoiding the downfall of the old Hegemony? Or should I remind you that you, too, should be labeled as an opportunist flip-flopper by your own scheme.

No, snake, your lies deceive no one.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Smooth

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Smooth' timestamp='1282716244' post='2430570']
And the opportunism in this would be...?

Oh, a "once great alliance" with "values you've stood for." Find me a post of you praising the Entente, bro, in all the 4 years I've been on this planet with you. Would those values be laughing with GOONS in Initiative government channels at the League? Or would that be the values in which you played a part in the Great Civil War? Or could it be when your alliance attacked FAN? Or wait, was it the other curbstomps you, as a government member of the Pacific, no matter what level, were involved in? Or perhaps you are the opportunistic one that is now complaining about "curbstomps" and "terms" and "evil treaty partners"

No, snake, your lies deceive no one.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I welcomed your return. I also respect the VE for going independent and standing for principles. But a lot changes in three years. Also, I wasn't in the NPO during the curb stomp era. It's a well known fact that I got fed up with that kind of rubbish by the time of VietFAN, although I do have to applaud your incredible display of ignorance. Ever since then I've been remarkable consistent, and I may be one of the few remaining who's values, stances, and opinions have no changed over the years. But again, nice try.

You sunk my battleship.[/color]

[Smooth]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282716566' post='2430575']
[color="#0000FF"]I welcomed your return. I also respect the VE for going independent and standing for principles. But a lot changes in three years. Also, I wasn't in the NPO during the curb stomp era. It's a well known fact that I got fed up with that kind of rubbish by the time of VietFAN, although I do have to applaud your incredible display of ignorance. Ever since then I've been remarkable consistent, and I may be one of the few remaining who's values, stances, and opinions have no changed over the years. But again, nice try.

You sunk my battleship.[/color]
[/quote]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe you didn't leave NPO until early in 2008? Hardly "fed up with that kind of rubbish" of wars with FAN. And another thing, if you are remarkably consistent and you find no problem being friendly with the current NPO, which you have been at odds with in the past, why is it so shocking for you to accept that two different alliances such as GOONS and VE can get along. To bring us back to the topic, of course, since you found it prudent to ignore the parts of my post relevant to our discussion in your haste to defend yourself. I don't blame you, however, when you make gems such as stating how different GOONS and VE are and how at odds they used to be when, you, yourself said, and I quote: "A lot changes in three years."

Edited August 25, 2010 by Smooth

[JimKongIl]

You know that feeling when you are watching a friend who has had too much to drink make out with an ugly woman?

That's how I feel.

[img]http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/12/25/633973658446921000-TheInternet.jpg[/img]

Just kidding, I guess.

Edited August 25, 2010 by JimKongIl

[Zombie Glaucon]

I, for one, am excited.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Smooth' timestamp='1282717030' post='2430582']
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe you didn't leave NPO until early in 2008? Hardly "fed up with that kind of rubbish" of wars with FAN. And another thing, if you are remarkably consistent and you find no problem being friendly with the current NPO, which you have been at odds with in the past, why is it so shocking for you to accept that two different alliances such as GOONS and VE can get along.

To bring us back to the topic, of course, since you found it prudent to ignore the parts of my post relevant to our discussion in your haste to defend yourself. I don't blame you, however, when you make gems such as stating how different GOONS and VE are and how at odds they used to be when, you, yourself said, and I quote: "A lot changes in three years."
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I left the NPO in late 2007. Right before they hit FAN again. I was in fact one of the most vocal critics of that war. I did make a brief return in 2008, hoping they had changed. I was mistaken and left to fight for GATO. As for the NPO, they paid for the crimes, and on recent issues they seem to be right. I may still not be overly fond of their past, but I am even less fond of your present. My placement on the web has less to do with any love I have for the "ex-Heg" so much as it has to do with my distaste for the blatant displays of hypocrisy from the former Karma.

As for VE and GOONS, as I said, you're the perfect match. You both have an unwarranted tough guy attitude, and despite that act you are still cowards at heart. I still remember fondly GOONS backing down to NV. VE hasn't embarrassed itself, but only because you're less reckless. Still it doesn't change the character of your alliance. So yes, congratulations on the treaty. You deserve each other.

There, I congratulated you. Are you happy now, sweetheart?

You sunk my battleship.[/color]

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1282706829' post='2430379']
I don't know what's so hard for people to understand about this.
GOONS current wiki lists these gov members:
[list][*]Pilot Sardonic [color="#8B0000"]Original GOONS[/color]
[*]Co-Pilot [b]Any knowledge you have of ban evaders must be reported.[/b] (this gov member's name is filtered, comically demonstrating my point) [color="#8B0000"]Original GOONS and \m/[/color]
[*]Secretariat Ktarthan [color="#8B0000"]not sure[/color]
[*]Sexretariat Lenku [color="#8B0000"]not sure[/color]
[*]Strategos Nippy [color="#8B0000"]Original GOONS[/color]
[*]Dongmaster I M Tpl [color="#8B0000"]Original GOONS[/color]
[*]Newbie Wrangler Slide [color="#8B0000"]not sure[/color]
[*]Emeritus Lamuella, Bloodjewel [color="#8B0000"]both original GOONS[/color]
[*]Council Tristesse, Broazt, Kim Il Sung [color="#8B0000"]not sure on any of these.[/color]
[/list]
[/quote]
Nippy took back Strategos while I wasn't looking? I'll have to have a word with him about that.

Besides, that whole list is pointless; everyone knows I run the entirely of GOONS, and I wasn't in the old one. So GOONS is run entirely by new members.

[Smooth]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282717841' post='2430589']
[color="#0000FF"]I left the NPO in late 2007. Right before they hit FAN again. I was in fact one of the most vocal critics of that war. I did make a brief return in 2008, hoping they had changed. I was mistaken and left to fight for GATO. As for the NPO, they paid for the crimes, and on recent issues they seem to be right. I may still not be overly fond of their past, but I am even less fond of your present. My placement on the web has less to do with any love I have for the "ex-Heg" so much as it has to do with my distaste for the blatant displays of hypocrisy from the former Karma.

As for VE and GOONS, as I said, you're the perfect match. You both have an unwarranted tough guy attitude, and despite that act you are still cowards at heart. I still remember fondly GOONS backing down to NV. VE hasn't embarrassed itself, but only because you're less reckless. Still it doesn't change the character of your alliance. So yes, congratulations on the treaty. You deserve each other.

There, I congratulated you. Are you happy now, sweetheart?

You sunk my battleship.[/color]
[/quote]

Yes, darling. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I see the circle argument fast approaching.

Next time we're cowards though, please drop me a message and call us out on it, thanks. For the life of me I can't see it.

[Solaris]

[quote name='JimKongIl' timestamp='1282717110' post='2430583']
You know that feeling when you are watching a friend who has had to much to drink make out with an ugly woman?

That's how I feel.

[img]
Just kidding, I guess.
[/quote]

Neither has neckbeard, so I have to ask, which one is the lady, and which one is the young male?

[Jakome]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282717841' post='2430589']
[color="#0000FF"]As for VE and GOONS, as I said, you're the perfect match. You both have an unwarranted tough guy attitude, and despite that act you are still cowards at heart. I still remember fondly GOONS backing down to NV. VE hasn't embarrassed itself, but only because you're less reckless. Still it doesn't change the character of your alliance. So yes, congratulations on the treaty. You deserve each other.
[/quote]
Hey! Remember that one time NSO tried to play the tough guy? But I guess having all that experience now you can recognize the ofw tough guys.

And backing down from NV? You mean that time we raided one of their protectorates and we paid reps? OHHH Snap them GOONS are lil women. Sure pr wise we may have taken a hit but in reality we handled it the same way we handle all accidental protectorate raids. Apologize throw some money and chew out the one that screwed up

Edited August 25, 2010 by Jakome

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Smooth' timestamp='1282691747' post='2430045']
Not true. You and your "clan" (for want of a better term) had problems communicating. This does not have any bearing whatsoever upon the feelings, views, or actions of the rest of the alliance.

Edit: wordsmithing
[/quote]
You of all people should know me better than than to use a 'your clan' definition .. Of [i]any[/i] Viridian - as much as I used to refer to even Impero as one of my best friends (past tense) - (you) have known/understood/supported/refuted/etc anything we've ever talked about on a personal level of the course of the Entente. Except within these threads.

And if that's a quote to somehow involve Symphony. Then you best PM me quick - because I have a few choice words I won't hold back any longer. Not if you backstabbing !@#$%*es in VE want to continue slandering me even while I've made every attempt to diverse myself from you. Personal politics have no play here - and I'll gladly put any AA aside if you want to make it as such.


[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1282704652' post='2430318']
You forgot one:

-If you're in VE, you probably don't have argumentation skills and just talk about the AA of the people not about their post.


[/quote]

You're selling the entire Entente short over the actions of the current 'Good Ol Boys Club' ... While I agree with it to the current persuasion, it's not the full case.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Rayvon

[Bob Janova]

Normally I wouldn't bother to respond to RV, but one of his sentences accidentally stumbles upon the core of most of the ' GOONS ' arguments in this thread:
[quote]Granted they have been somewhat tamer than the old, but the fact they are still quite small may have something to do with that. Really, it is only a matter of time before they are up to their old antics. We've already seen tastes of what is to come[/quote]
To put it simply: we disagree. We don't believe that we'll see their 'old antics', we believe that GOONS are looking for an opportunity to demonstrate to the world that they are [i]not[/i] the old GOONS and, after extensive discussions with them, we believe them and are prepared to sign a treaty with them. This does not show that Viridia has lost its principled attitude to FA, it shows that you have not come to know the GOONS and are seeing something (a 'scum alliance') which is not the case.

[Baden-Württemberg]

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1282730667' post='2430651']
You of all people should know me better than than to use a 'your clan' definition .. Of [i]any[/i] Viridian - as much as I used to refer to even Impero as one of my best friends (past tense) - (you) have known/understood/supported/refuted/etc anything we've ever talked about on a personal level of the course of the Entente. Except within these threads.

And if that's a quote to somehow involve Symphony. Then you best PM me quick - because I have a few choice words I won't hold back any longer. Not if you backstabbing !@#$%*es in VE want to continue slandering me even while I've made every attempt to diverse myself from you. Personal politics have no play here - and I'll gladly put any AA aside if you want to make it as such.




You're selling the entire Entente short over the actions of the current 'Good Ol Boys Club' ... While I agree with it to the current persuasion, it's not the full case.
[/quote]

I know Rayvon even longer than Egore. And listening to his posts makes me believing RV. Keep it going^^

[D34th]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1282736751' post='2430689']
Normally I wouldn't bother to respond to RV, but one of his sentences accidentally stumbles upon the core of most of the ' GOONS ' arguments in this thread:

To put it simply: we disagree. [b]We don't believe that we'll see their 'old antics', we believe that GOONS are looking for an opportunity to demonstrate to the world that they are [i]not[/i] the old GOONS [/b]and, after extensive discussions with them, we believe them and are prepared to sign a treaty with them. This does not show that Viridia has lost its principled attitude to FA, it shows that you have not come to know the GOONS and are seeing something (a 'scum alliance') which is not the case.
[/quote]

Look likes you disagree with yourself then(all bold are mine):


[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1253287477' post='1850253']
That is not the reason that GOONS was despised and already had a huge coalition built up against it. Yes, that 'incident' is what put your alliance on PZI and caused many of its leadership to disappear entirely, but you were already hated by a lot of people for your arrogance, misuse of power and willingness to 'bully the weak' – don't forget that when the 'line was crossed' you and the rest of the Unjust were already fighting what was almost certainly a losing war against a vast, largely moralist coalition. [b]Threads like this one are a big step towards being 'old GOONS'.[/b]
[/quote]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1253443956' post='1853432']
[b]It seems GOONS are still stuck in the old world, indeed. The difference is that today GOONS don't actually have that much might;[/b] I doubt Polaris (who have always been anti-raiding) would march in to defend them if they got themselves into trouble this way.

Re 'ascending via the unjust path' – [b]I thought you guys weren't the old GOONS?[/b] Why would you want to be associated with that kind of sentiment?

Re accepting nations being raided: I don't like raiding at all, but a typical raid is 'PM for peace', so there should be no issue with peacing out a raid with a nation that asks for it immediately, whether they are being accepted into another alliance or not. Are you saying that GOONS attacks nations unprovoked and will not release them from war unless they lie down and give you their stuff for 7 days?

Re ZI-listing people for firing CMs back: lolwut. This is one PR disaster after another for you. That even eclipses \m/ for most flagrant bullying in tech raids.
[/quote]


[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1253617120' post='1857892']
It is not so much the content of this policy as the way it was worded (a direct 'screw you' to one alliance) and [b]the way some GOONS have conducted the discussion within the thread that reminds people of old GOONS and why they disliked them.[/b] No alliance has yet been killed for tech raiding, but the Unjust, both Orders, TPF and Valhalla have all found themselves hugely disliked and destroyed in war for the way they conducted themselves.
[/quote]

But if you changed your mine about GOONS not being the "old GOONS", please enlighten us about the differences and please keep in mind what yourself said: [i] "The difference is that today GOONS don't actually have that much might"[/i]

[Smooth]

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1282730667' post='2430651']
You of all people should know me better than than to use a 'your clan' definition .. Of [i]any[/i] Viridian - as much as I used to refer to even Impero as one of my best friends (past tense) - (you) have known/understood/supported/refuted/etc anything we've ever talked about on a personal level of the course of the Entente. Except within these threads.

And if that's a quote to somehow involve Symphony. Then you best PM me quick - because I have a few choice words I won't hold back any longer. Not if you backstabbing !@#$%*es in VE want to continue slandering me even while I've made every attempt to diverse myself from you. Personal politics have no play here - and I'll gladly put any AA aside if you want to make it as such.
[/quote]
Relax man, you're taking this to a whole new level. I'll drop you a line about it.

[Bob Janova]

That's some impressive digging, but you'll note that those quotes come from September 2009, 11 months ago. GOONS have learnt and matured as they aged which is why you don't have a more recent example to use.

The difference is simple, it's that this GOONS wants to be a part of the normal diplomatic world and act according to its norms, and when it crosses a line it learns the lessons from that and doesn't do it again. The old GOONS was interested in 'collecting pubbie tears' (though I don't think they used that phrase themselves) above all else. This GOONS are very sensitive to comparisons with the old one and that in itself will act as a brake on 'antics'.

[AngolaThree]

I forsee this being a long and healthy relationship given the circumstances behind it.



Nah, I'm jerking you around, this is a terrible idea.