TehChron Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1281383633' post='2408149'] It's not about protecting your infra, it's about condoning an aggressive action by a member of your government. Either the action was rogue or it wasn't. I mean this isn't something like bear-baiting or unwittingly provoking moralists who want to enforce "community standards" (i.e. people who want to get a war themselves while seeming all superior and moral about it). This is a clear cut act of war, that Heft was told would be a clear cut act of war. I'm just not getting how this was a "mistake". It just seems way too deliberate to me to call it that. [/quote] We're admitting it was dumb. We've done that profusely, and consistently. But expelling him is a different matter entirely. We're not saying it was a mistake, we're saying it was stupid. Edited August 9, 2010 by Chron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yevgeni Luchenkov Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 At least, Emporor shows some naive honesty. I guess that, in the middle of all of this, it is a redeeming quality. Stay classy, GATO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoiL Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1281382698' post='2408126'] If Heft is a rogue government member and NSO as a whole should not be held at fault for this situation, why not expel Heft from the alliance and let him work out his own peace with Ragnarok? If NSO really does not stand behind Heft's actions, but Heft basically just went over the deep end, shouldn't this still be a fixable situation? [/quote] He is not a rogue government member. His decision was entirely valid. It seems to have been made abundantly clear that the member was under our protection until reason was given to dismiss him. RoK attacked anyway. I don't consider it a good call. It was provocative regardless of its intent or validity. However, it was retaliatory. RoK attacked first. Edited August 9, 2010 by SpoiL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281384047' post='2408166'] If you give me a hearty LOL, I will consider it. [/quote] Do you want this recorded? Because I will gladly use my laughter to attempt to save my alliance. Edited August 9, 2010 by Chron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Controversy Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1281384073' post='2408168'] Alliances in the past ran away when it was obvious there pixels would be hurt, here, GATO run away even faster than the standards set by previous cowards. Pathetic. GATO for WAE 2010. [/quote] Previous (and might I add, current) cowards like IRON I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sci Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281384577' post='2408191'] I don't know, as a person uninvolved in this war it sure sounds to me like GATO had plans to join the curb stomping of NSO if asked. [/quote] Untrue statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Sir Sci' timestamp='1281385047' post='2408222'] Untrue statement. [/quote] The statement seemed very genuine to me, he is your member though so you know him better than me. What is his position again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 (edited) nvm del double post Edited August 9, 2010 by shahenshah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1281384578' post='2408192'] Are you talking about your own alliance's behavior in Karma? [/quote] Admin stole our pixels and forced the reps Edited August 9, 2010 by shahenshah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Sir Sci' timestamp='1281385047' post='2408222'] Untrue statement. [/quote] So you let the leader of the alliance you're protecting say such things...good to know. Anyhow, I can't say I expected GATO to step up and bat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Balder' timestamp='1281366717' post='2407566'] For some reason I have a feeling that this would be much more difficult a goal to accomplish than you think. I know I'd be looking forward to kicking you and the rest of the Holier Than Thou Brigade in the 'nads for the insolence though. [/quote] It's so cute that you want to fight us because we're better than you. It's ok to be jealous. We do tend to do it right, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janax Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 This gets better and better. A bracket busting performance, it would seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka the Great Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 (edited) The only complaint I have about this is, well, OK it's not really a complaint. I heard that this cancellation was 'coming down the pipe' a few hours before it was actually posted. I didn't tell anyone else because, unlike someone in GATO, I know how to keep a secret. (And, before someone in GATO sends me a PM, no I did not hear this from a GATO member.) [quote name='Corinan' timestamp='1281383987' post='2408163'] Heft made no mistakes. He coordinated aid for a member who was being attacked with no proven reason given. By sending the aid he was actually trying to avoid a war, ironically enough. Attacking a member of ours with no valid proof as to why you're doing it is grounds for war. Heft tried to act diplomatically in only sending aid to the victim. Heft was in the right. [/quote] You guys really need to sit down and get your stories straight. Again. [quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1281385513' post='2408242'] [color="#0000FF"]....haven't I and several others already explained that the aid never should have been sent, and that it was a mistake on our part?[/color] [/quote] Edited August 9, 2010 by Ashoka the Great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sci Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281385257' post='2408228'] The statement seemed very genuine to me, he is your member though so you know him better than me. What is his position again? [/quote] What, Emperor? No, he's the leader of our protectorate, not a member of GATO. He holds no capacity in GATO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Sir Sci' timestamp='1281385631' post='2408251'] What, Emperor? No, he's the leader of our protectorate, not a member of GATO. He holds no capacity in GATO. [/quote] Sorry, the leader of your protectorate, either way, are you saying he is a liar? If so will you be maintaining the protectorate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potato Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281385724' post='2408254'] Sorry, the leader of your protectorate, either way, are you saying he is a liar? If so will you be maintaining the protectorate? [/quote] Of course, he's a liar. And he wants to make himself look better with statements such as "I was the first to know outside of SF". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1281335073' post='2406869'] You guys deserve to be rolled and viceroyed for another year after this travesty of an announcement. Clearly you aren't thinking straight. [/quote] When a former member of GATO who stood for so long against the viceroyship of NPO against GATO says this, well....you just need to quote it now and then. Edited August 9, 2010 by shahenshah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1281385604' post='2408249'] The only complaint I have about this is, well, OK it's not really a complaint. I heard that this cancellation was 'coming down the pipe' a few hours before it was actually posted. I didn't tell anyone else because, unlike someone in GATO, I know how to keep a secret. (And, before someone in GATO sends me a PM, no I did not hear this from a GATO member.) You guys really need to sit down and get your stories straight. Again. [/quote] Ha, so good you had to sig it, eh? Did it not occur to you that perhaps my opinion of the situation is different from that of NSO government? We're Sith, not the Borg, remember. We're no hivemind. Edited August 9, 2010 by Corinan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sci Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 I would not go as far to say that he's a liar, but he certainly just made an inappropriate comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Sir Sci' timestamp='1281388343' post='2408345'] I would not go as far to say that he's a liar, but he certainly just made an inappropriate comment. [/quote] Well, if he isn't a liar then he was planning on rolling NSO if asked to the dance. Do you plan to keep this protectorate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Webster Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 His lie doesn't make GATO piddle it's pants, so it will be probably be overlooked due to the strength of their friendship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M6 Redneck Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 Two things. 1. Is it ironic the OP has a ODN pip? I feel it is. That is of course an optional opinion. 2. Does GATO = UPN? M6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281388460' post='2408349'] Well, if he isn't a liar then he was planning on rolling NSO if asked to the dance. Do you plan to keep this protectorate? [/quote] Emp's comments were way out of line and if it were up to me we would be getting heckled for canceling on them as well. He has 0 influence over what GATO does and for him to say publicly that he does pisses me off to no end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfEmpty Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 Come back to your snow-home MagicNinja. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypoNinja Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Corinan' timestamp='1281383987' post='2408163'] Heft made no mistakes. He coordinated aid for a member who was being attacked with no proven reason given. By sending the aid he was actually trying to avoid a war, ironically enough. Attacking a member of ours with no valid proof as to why you're doing it is grounds for war. Heft tried to act diplomatically in only sending aid to the victim. Heft was in the right. [/quote] Spin harder. You accepted a rogue nation with active wars, you then aided him after being told about it and warned not to. 10 seconds to check his wars could have saved you this. You coordinated aid for a nation engaged in active wars, not even just a ZI list guy who wasn't doing anything at the time, the dude had outgoing wars. NSO enjoys pushing boundaries? cool. you enjoy testing the status quo? cool. Don't act surprised or outraged when your pushing ends with somebody pushing back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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