Ragnarok Declaration of War

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='deSouza' timestamp='1281317912' post='2405817']
I was GPA for a year and left about a month prior to the woodstock massacre due to not believing in hippyness, and I was against NPO then.
Thought it was a !@#$%^&* CB.
Think this is a !@#$%^&* CB.

If it comes to war, i'll have fun blowing some excess [s]infra[/s]fat.
[/quote]
Unfortunately for you, your opinion on the validity of a CB is not enough to make two situations to be the same.

[Heft]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281317826' post='2405809']
You wanted to resolve this so badly that you aided a nation at war with RoK after being specifically told it would be an act of war. We had no intention of attacking you until this happened.

Yes yes, I know ... we hate the NPO so much that we set up this elaborate trap. We told you not to aid as reverse psychology to get you [b]to[/b] aid him. I am so damn brilliant and crafty. Thank you.
[/quote]
We would not be at war unless you wanted to be at war. It is really that simple. People are suspecting ulterior motives because the professed motive doesn't make any sense by itself.

[Penkala]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1281316934' post='2405753']
[color="#0000FF"]Well, this is an interesting new bit of information I just came upon. Makes you wonder how consistent RoK is when it comes to applying its CBs.

As many of you know, my dear friends Penky and CitizenKane both went rogue on VA not too long ago. Well, about a week ago, while at war with VA, they both changed their AA to CSN. CSN then demanded that the wars be ended. Soon CSN starts threatening war over this. It almost came to blows, and all over CSN protecting two well known rogues who didn't even apply on the CSN forum (yup, they just changed their AA). Naturally RoK supports its ally, so, it makes you wonder, how consistent is RoK when it comes to CBs? Did they really take great offense? Since how they react seems to change with whoever is doing the acting. Or were they simply aching for a fight and blow this out of proportion? Makes on think.[/color]
[/quote]

That's actually not true! Good try, though, RV!

[quote]CSN was defending ex-members who were kept at war for over a month. It is not exactly the same.[/quote]

More than that. Myself and BROTHER Kane were *EZI-listed* by VA. After over a month of fighting us, CSN tried to coordinate peace. VA stonewalled, so CSN masked us on the forums (oh boy!) then went to work it out with VA again. This despite VA responding to attempts at communication by kickbanning CSN gov and breaking a ceasefire (twice!).

But please, do go on, RV! I personally agree! An alliance should be able to EZI whomever they please!

Edited August 9, 2010 by Penkala

[Michael McBride]

For those of you complaining about itchy trigger fingers, offers of resolution, etc... where the $%&@ have you been the last few years? This is Ragnarok. They have itchy trigger fingers. They always have. Whether that is a good or bad thing is up to your own personal view. Here, they told NSO not to aid said rogue. Said rogue was aided. While some other alliances might have considered continuing diplomacy rather than go to war over a 4.5kNS nation and $6mil, Rok chose to go to war. Hoo has always been a straight shooter. If he tells you not to do something because you'll be in a war if you do, you don't do that exact thing and then not expect to be in a war. That's just Mark Sanford-sized stupidity.

Basically, NSO, if the tables were reversed (say, if Hoo suddenly went brain-dead and his inanimate body was tied down to prevent him from rising and choking the life of any other moron in Rok who was a functioning brain-dead who allowed this to happen), you'd be right there cheering your allies on and saying that Rok had made a stupid decision. So unwad your panties, don't shove your tampon so high, and quit your !@#$%*ing Sally.

[deSouza]

[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' timestamp='1281318131' post='2405831']
Unfortunately for you, your opinion on the validity of a CB is not enough to make two situations to be the same.
[/quote]

I'd have more respect for RoK if they just straighforward declared war because they wanted to war NSO.
More cojones.
They can do as they please, and I can still say my opinion about it.

[chris8967]

I guess next time someone tells NSO "if you do it, it will be an act of war" maybe NSO will listen.

[Seerow]

So what I see here is quite possibly the most solid CB we've seen in years, involving two direct parties rather than proxies, and legitimate conversation between government of both parties, and a failed attempt at negotiation resulting in war. Seriously when was the last time we saw something this solid?

And yet you still have the people being attacked trying to claim the CB was weak. You were told up front that aiding would be an act of war, and sent aid anyway. Then rather than just denying it and saying it was unsanctioned aid and it would be handled internally, you own up to it being government sanctioned, but try to claim it was a compromise? Yeah, sure. This war is about as legit as it gets, and should be pretty interesting to watch.

[Choson]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281318120' post='2405830']
You could try responding to me, I replied to your response in this thread. Can you tell me why it was so important to hit NSO before they went to peace mode that you had to completely omit diplomacy? Basically making their decision to enter peace mode as part of your reason for war? What a heinous crime, NSO entering peace mode. The other reason being, in a worst case scenario where NSO are evil and do things wrong on purpose, the aiding of a trivial amount of money to a trivial sized nation - Clearly a major situation that requires immediate war and cannot have any hope for a diplomatic solution.
[/quote]

Because the NSO knew that aiding a known rogue was an act of war? The amount sent and the size of the nation matter not.

[Matthew Conrad]

[quote name='deSouza' timestamp='1281317778' post='2405804']
NSO is not neutral and probably welcomes the war though.
[/quote]

This is great news.

[Chickenzilla]

[quote name='Daeryon' timestamp='1281318034' post='2405825']
No, really, it's funny.

Maybe not from where you are sitting, but it is.

Your motivations are so apparent it's funny. Most of the posts here are talking about not NSO..but their allies.

It's a joke.
[/quote]
Personally, if it were up to me, the whole game would implode and everyone alliance would be at war indefinitely, since I hold no position in my alliance, I really have no sway over this. I just hoping to make this as much as a bloodbath as possible.

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='deSouza' timestamp='1281318245' post='2405843']
I'd have more respect for RoK if they just straighforward declared war because they wanted to war NSO.
More cojones.
They can do as they please, and I can still say my opinion about it.
[/quote]
NSO wanted to start something - aiding the person in question is pretty contrary to conducting good diplomacy in this situation.

[Daeryon]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281317826' post='2405809']
You wanted to resolve this so badly that you aided a nation at war with RoK after being specifically told it would be an act of war. We had no intention of attacking you until this happened.

Yes yes, I know ... we hate the NPO so much that we set up this elaborate trap. We told you not to aid as reverse psychology to get you [b]to[/b] aid him. I am so damn brilliant and crafty. Thank you.
[/quote]

Brilliant and crafty are not the adjectives I would use.

[Wad of Lint]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1281317825' post='2405808']
Taking pretty much the last PR hit you can, eh, NPO? Now you'll also be known as an alliance who threw a friend to the wolves because the wolves were just too strong. This is excellent.
[/quote]

I have defensive slots open. Feel free to use them.

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1281318025' post='2405824']
Normal venues of diplomacy? Is that where I aid a suspected rogue even though someone else gives a warning against doing so?
[/quote]

No, it's where I ask for further information. It is also where negotiations were possible but individuals were getting jumpy thinking they might not get their grand war.

[silentkiller]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1281317825' post='2405808']
Taking pretty much the last PR hit you can, eh, NPO? Now you'll also be known as an alliance who threw a friend to the wolves because the wolves were just too strong. This is excellent.
[/quote]

Making a fool out of yourself yet again Penkala?

Hint: NSO requested we stay out. Although I wouldn't expect a person of your intelligence to understand the difference.

Edited August 9, 2010 by silentkiller

[JD Storm]

to quote my favorite TV character, this is a good day to die! for Ragnarok sake, they'd better feel the same way. NSO will kick butt & take initials (not stopping long enough for full names).

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281317826' post='2405809']
You wanted to resolve this so badly that you aided a nation at war with RoK after being specifically told it would be an act of war. We had no intention of attacking you until this happened.

Yes yes, I know ... we hate the NPO so much that we set up this elaborate trap. We told you not to aid as reverse psychology to get you [b]to[/b] aid him. I am so damn brilliant and crafty. Thank you.
[/quote]"We're not going to tell you why, but if you aid your member, it's an act of war on RoK."

Makes perfect sense. Who needs sovereignty anyway.

Hoo, your ego is so massive, it boggles the mind. Or is that just the cult following you around, I'm not entirely sure. Maybe it's both. But believe it or not, not everyone here is just going to "take your word for it." Again, thanks for being the judge, jury, and executioner for members of other alliances. But no thanks. If you don't want him to get aided, provide reasons why he shouldn't be.

[Deadshot]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281317019' post='2405761']
If there were any truth at all to this, then every single thread would not devolve into a discussion about NPO. But the fact is, it's all about NPO. NPO is the imaginary demon that SuperGrievances need. They need to keep pretending that there is some great evil, to keep up the lie that got them into power in the first place, and to perhaps provide a common enemy, to perhaps even subconsciously avoid the inevitable SF/CnG split.

The fact is, NPO is staying as far away from politics as they can, and you can't even find something as flimsy as this to tag on them. After the Red Raiding Safari didn't work to goad NPO to war, this here was Plan B, find a flimsy excuse to attack their direct allies. NSO's policy of not taking crap from anyone played right into this trap. But NSO called the trap, and those parties have failed once again to force war upon the NPO.

It is only made obvious from the nonstop goading in this thread. The focus is hardly on the flimsy reasons for war, it's all on labeling NPO and company cowards, or trying to deny that the goading is occurring. It's all really quite hilarious, how upset you all are that NPO once again isn't going to get rolled according to your plans. All you are left with is a terrible bit of PR as the reality of the situation rapidly makes itself apparent.
[/quote]

We have a winner.


[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1281317270' post='2405774']
Are you stupid? GPA was neutral and did nothing wrong AND NPO DEDCLARED ON THEM. NSO was told not to aid the rogue and did it anyway [i]twice[/i].

If you feel so strongly about it have Pacifica DoW tonight. Unless of course you're afraid for your pixels that is.
[/quote]

Are you stupid? DeSouza is not the emperor of Pacifica is he?


[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1281317722' post='2405798']
Hoo, we`re calling them the Coalition of Cowards, we`re the ones conspiring, remember?
[/quote]

Awww, how original.

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='deSouza' timestamp='1281317778' post='2405804']
Lord Swampy was on the Valhalla pzi list and was offered affiliate status, which is more or less the situation that this member is in NSO (last i checked they had a policy of accepting members in ZI lists but not helping them militarily, which i thought they had waived). That warranted widespread war declarations. Same situation. Try to deny or spin it around all you wish, see if I care.

NSO is not neutral and probably welcomes the war though.
[/quote]

First off, the nations not on a PZI list. Secondly, they [b]did[/b] help him militarily by giving him six million dollars which at 4k NS can be a huge game changer.

[quote name='Wentworth the Brave' timestamp='1281318508' post='2405871']
Are you stupid? DeSouza is not the emperor of Pacifica is he?
[/quote]

True however he could always join NSO and assist them in this noble cause!

[quote name='silentkiller' timestamp='1281318404' post='2405857']
Hint: NSO requested we stay out. Although I wouldn't expect a person of your intelligence to understand the difference.
[/quote]

Ha, as if you would have come in. You wouldn't defend those you swore to defend during the Red Raiding Safari what makes you think you'd defend NSO?

Edited August 9, 2010 by Mr Damsky

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='Wentworth the Brave' timestamp='1281318508' post='2405871']
Awww, how original.
[/quote]

Wasn`t going for originality... just using an appropriate term.

[KaitlinK]

[quote name='deSouza' timestamp='1281318245' post='2405843']
I'd have more respect for RoK if they just straighforward declared war because they wanted to war NSO.
More cojones.
They can do as they please, and I can still say my opinion about it.
[/quote]

I would say being straightforward is what put NSO on a target list? I mean how many times do you see an alliance clearly spell out, "if you you do this, we will consider it an act of war?" Really, was their much doubt how this was going to end once NSO sent that aid?

Edited August 9, 2010 by KaitlinK

[Qazzian]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281317676' post='2405793']
I know you don't, but you have made it clear in this thread that you don't have opinions of your own and are instead a part of the Conspiracy Collective.
[/quote]

Ah yes, the old "you hold the same viewpoint as the group you associate with therefore you're a mindless drone" line.

CSN protected a rogue, you used some muscle flexing to back them up.
NSO aided a member of their alliance, you told them the nation was a rogue, and attacked them.

Wait, I DO see the difference now. One involved a rogue and your friend, the other involved a rogue and an alliance you don't like.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281318120' post='2405830']
Snip
[/quote]

I didn't respond to you because you're just as annoying, misinformed, and useless as I remember. You have yet to make a valid point and sit and repeat yourself. You are incorrect in every post you have made, and quite possibly in every post you have [b]ever[/b] made. Why anyone would take the time to sit and argue with such a gnat is incomprehensible.


[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1281318162' post='2405834']
We would not be at war unless you wanted to be at war. It is really that simple. People are suspecting ulterior motives because the professed motive doesn't make any sense by itself.
[/quote]

We would not be at war had you simply not aided the rogue. I said we'd consider it an act of war not after, not during, but [b]before[/b] you did it. You did it to prove a point and try and stick it to us, I suppose? ... I guess assuming we'd do nothing about it.

[Heft]

[quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1281318257' post='2405845']
So what I see here is quite possibly the most solid CB we've seen in years, involving two direct parties rather than proxies, and legitimate conversation between government of both parties, and a failed attempt at negotiation resulting in war. Seriously when was the last time we saw something this solid?

And yet you still have the people being attacked trying to claim the CB was weak. You were told up front that aiding would be an act of war, and sent aid anyway. Then rather than just denying it and saying it was unsanctioned aid and it would be handled internally, you own up to it being government sanctioned, but try to claim it was a compromise? Yeah, sure. This war is about as legit as it gets, and should be pretty interesting to watch.
[/quote]
For there to be a failed negotiation there would have to be an attempt at negotiation. RoK dodged all such attempts, preferring instead to rush into an unnecessary war.

[cookavich]

Late to the party, but I wish my allies in RoK a swift victory.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Qazzian' timestamp='1281318771' post='2405889']
Ah yes, the old "you hold the same viewpoint as the group you associate with therefore you're a mindless drone" line.

CSN protected a rogue, you used some muscle flexing to back them up.
NSO aided a member of their alliance, you told them the nation was a rogue, and attacked them.

Wait, I DO see the difference now. One involved a rogue and your friend, the other involved a rogue and an alliance you don't like.
[/quote]


I know what you're trying to do, and you're really bad at it. Let me explain:

We are Ragnarok.

They are CSN.

Had we been in that situation (and this situation as well), then you'd be on to something. We weren't, so you're not.