An Announcement from the Grand Global Alliance

[Ecthelion]

[quote name='BlkAK47002' date='27 May 2010 - 07:02 PM' timestamp='1275001335' post='2313965']
Unfortunatley thats how it's going to be. [b]Petty grudges [/b]will continue to be held against GGA even if they change for the better. The other side will take every oppurtunity to scruntinize their rivals.
[/quote]

!@#$%^&*. Some will "lolGGA" for all time, but those of us who've actually dealt with the leadership of GGA know why those grudges started in the first place, not to mention how GGA leadership manages to maintain those grudges.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Ardus' date='27 May 2010 - 07:00 PM' timestamp='1275001187' post='2313961']
Those of us who've had the pleasure to work with him repeatedly or on an extended basis don't really need to debate or ask questions on the subject. In both cooperative and adversarial roles Brookbank is... Brookbank. Paranoid, accusatory, and consistently getting into trouble. I s'pose I can understand your desire to see a more conciliatory role adopted with regard to him, but we detractors have been down that road, too, and only ended up with more of the same.
[/quote]

Well, I wouldn't say being paranoid is a bad trait to have. I've dealt with infamous figures in this realm that were very paranoid; and it always worked to their advantage to do so. Leaders generally need to have a sense of caution; especially when dealing with hostility. Some leaders are more cautionary than others, but it doesn't make them a bad leader to do so. I digress.

I can understand where you're coming from. We've all dealt with people like that before. Most of the times I've dealt with Brookbank, it's in a friendly environment, so it's a bit difficult for me than most to target Brookbank like that. But I think a lot of the LOLGGA also comes from the stigma of GGA itself. Brookbank isn't the sole personality of GGA and I think the rest of the GGA government are very reasonable people. I understand why detractors are there; but I have a feeling that most don't even give a second thought about the issue and they band wagon onto the thread continuing the GGA meme. Detractors can be reasonable as well.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Jrenster' date='27 May 2010 - 11:50 PM' timestamp='1275000629' post='2313951']
I seem to have missed that part about weeding out a mole. You're right, I would be doubtful on that explanation.

I was actually talking about the anger issue, which to me, is more reasonable than holding onto prejudices. I understand the need for a couple of people to have a laugh here and there. I'm not questioning that you are wrong to criticize. But what is strange to me is that people don't even consider what Brookbank's intentions were. No debate, no discourse, no inquiry; nothing. That sounds like straight up blind prejudice to me.
[/quote]
[quote]
[2010-04-21 23:48:27] <Jonathan_Brookbank> I now have only one goal in CN
[2010-04-21 23:48:32] <Jonathan_Brookbank> Kill VE.[/quote]

I don't believe this quote is open to very many interpretations of intent. It is a statement of ones own malicious goal, and the only mens rea required for such an assertion is you purposefully want to make it known to whomever you may be speaking with. There is basically nothing to debate or inquire about, as making such a statement has only one very simple interpretation. If this is no longer his goal as he says, that's great, but given his actions since taking over I don't really feel it reasonable to just believe his words at face value simply off the cuff.

As for prejudice, I think the fact that we just simply don't care that much, did not make a big deal out of it when we received these logs, and have not thought about it until Brookbank himself brought it up here out of the blue speaks for itself.

[BlkAK47_002]

[quote name='Ardus' date='27 May 2010 - 07:04 PM' timestamp='1275001436' post='2313966']
Alliances change. People do not.
[/quote]
I don't think you truly believe that

As knowledge is gained and life puts you through different experiences, Perspective may change, which changes the person.

[Bilrow]

[quote name='Sooner' date='27 May 2010 - 04:59 PM' timestamp='1274997562' post='2313908']
No no, we're not cleaning up your mess. You guys take care of the cancer that you never went after. In fact, you should make bilrow lead the charge to destroy GGA. It would be fitting since he wanted to remove a cancer from the Green Sphere. We might as well as let him do it again. He did such a good job the last time.
[/quote]


You convince Cortath and I'm on that like flies on !@#$.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='27 May 2010 - 07:16 PM' timestamp='1275002155' post='2313982']
I don't believe this quote is open to very many interpretations of intent. It is a statement of ones own malicious goal, and the only mens rea required for such an assertion is you purposefully want to make it known to whomever you may be speaking with. There is basically nothing to debate or inquire about, as making such a statement has only one very simple interpretation. If this is no longer his goal as he says, that's great, but given his actions since taking over I don't really feel it reasonable to just believe his words at face value simply off the cuff.

As for prejudice, I think the fact that we just simply don't care that much, did not make a big deal out of it when we received these logs, and have not thought about it until Brookbank himself brought it up here out of the blue speaks for itself.
[/quote]

Absolutely correct. But I'm not talking about the logs themselves. I'm talking about JB's announcement. And I understand it from your point of view. If I was the alliance that was targeted with such malice, I wouldn't be so forgiving either. I'm referring to these innocent bystanders that seem to flood the field with LOLGGA. VE is absolutely justified in whatever response they take to such comments. Except for maybe war. But you've already dismissed the possibility of that occurring, so that's a non-issue.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Jrenster' date='27 May 2010 - 07:14 PM' timestamp='1275002040' post='2313980']
Well, I wouldn't say being paranoid is a bad trait to have. I've dealt with infamous figures in this realm that were very paranoid; and it always worked to their advantage to do so. Leaders generally need to have a sense of caution; especially when dealing with hostility. Some leaders are more cautionary than others, but it doesn't make them a bad leader to do so. I digress.[/quote]

There's a fine line between cautious and paranoid. I would concur with you in promotion caution as a positive trait in a leader. Overconfidence leads one to traps and turmoil. However one must be willing to put their trust in somebody, if only their own associates in government. Absent that functional trust an individual cannot serve as a reliable leader.

[quote]I can understand where you're coming from. We've all dealt with people like that before. Most of the times I've dealt with Brookbank, it's in a friendly environment, so it's a bit difficult for me than most to target Brookbank like that. But I think a lot of the LOLGGA also comes from the stigma of GGA itself. Brookbank isn't the sole personality of GGA and I think the rest of the GGA government are very reasonable people. I understand why detractors are there; but I have a feeling that most don't even give a second thought about the issue and they band wagon onto the thread continuing the GGA meme. Detractors can be reasonable as well.[/quote]

There are indeed other individuals in GGA who've proven themselves competent. A couple strike me as particularly talented, if rough around the edges. But GGA is unitary and monarchical; I can only really judge it by its leader. The lesser government and members of GGA implicitly empower Brookbank by remaining in the alliance and allowing him to remain in power. To assume otherwise is a dangerous foreign policy stance.

As for detractors being unreasonable, most of us are too lazy to hash back through the sordid details of our experiences that led to lolGGA, so you're absolutely correct in stating we're jumping straight to lolGGA.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Bilrow' date='27 May 2010 - 07:18 PM' timestamp='1275002265' post='2313985']
You convince Cortath and I'm on that like flies on !@#$.
[/quote]
Entente-Order MADP 2010

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Jrenster' date='28 May 2010 - 12:23 AM' timestamp='1275002617' post='2313987']
Absolutely correct. But I'm not talking about the logs themselves. I'm talking about JB's announcement. And I understand it from your point of view. If I was the alliance that was targeted with such malice, I wouldn't be so forgiving either. I'm referring to these innocent bystanders that seem to flood the field with LOLGGA. VE is absolutely justified in whatever response they take to such comments. Except for maybe war. But you've already dismissed the possibility of that occurring, so that's a non-issue.
[/quote]

Ah, true, but in that case you must look at it from a disinterested persons standpoint. Think back to every GGA announcement for about the past year or so, almost all end in some sort of valid, justified negitive incident for them. Does that mean everything they do in the public eye should? No, certainly not, people should always think, and never assume. But in matters such as this when there is very little room for interpretation, there is not very much thinking required in order to formulate a relatively reasonable opinion on the matter. Therefore, the community's response is only natural when viewed in light of the particular incident and relevant history, and by this point in time it has actually become a learned response so you will see it appear in such threads rather quickly.

[Sooner]

[quote name='Bilrow' date='27 May 2010 - 06:18 PM' timestamp='1275002265' post='2313985']
You convince Cortath and I'm on that like flies on !@#$.
[/quote]

We rang the dinner bell ages ago, check your hearing aids.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Ardus' date='27 May 2010 - 07:30 PM' timestamp='1275002999' post='2313988']
There's a fine line between cautious and paranoid. I would concur with you in promotion caution as a positive trait in a leader. Overconfidence leads one to traps and turmoil. However one must be willing to put their trust in somebody, if only their own associates in government. Absent that functional trust an individual cannot serve as a reliable leader.

There are indeed other individuals in GGA who've proven themselves competent. A couple strike me as particularly talented, if rough around the edges. But GGA is unitary and monarchical; I can only really judge it by its leader. The lesser government and members of GGA implicitly empower Brookbank by remaining in the alliance and allowing him to remain in power. To assume otherwise is a dangerous foreign policy stance.

As for detractors being unreasonable, most of us are too lazy to hash back through the sordid details of our experiences that led to lolGGA, so you're absolutely correct in stating we're jumping straight to lolGGA.
[/quote]

I think that's where our opinions differ. I judge an alliance not just by their leader but by the quality of the membership. Sometimes you will have great leaders but incompetent and inactive membership. Other times vice versa.

And meh. Lazy people.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='27 May 2010 - 07:33 PM' timestamp='1275003194' post='2313991']
Ah, true, but in that case you must look at it from a disinterested persons standpoint. Think back to every GGA announcement for about the past year or so, almost all end in some sort of valid, justified negitive incident for them. Does that mean everything they do in the public eye should? No, certainly not, people should always think, and never assume. But in matters such as this when there is very little room for interpretation, there is not very much thinking required in order to formulate a relatively reasonable opinion on the matter. Therefore, the community's response is only natural when viewed in light of the particular incident and relevant history, and by this point in time it has actually become a learned response so you will see it appear in such threads rather quickly.
[/quote]

Well I'm not so much surprised. I'm probably more curious than anything. Mobs will be mobs, I suppose. Alliances [i]do[/i] change sometimes. The best of them constantly change. I really think that JB overestimated the community response here by a lot.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Logan' date='27 May 2010 - 06:01 PM' timestamp='1274997690' post='2313910']
Yeah what gives VE, not spreading these logs like wildfire to embarrass the GGA


Well maybe they foresaw that GGA would make a big deal of it themselves.
[/quote]

To be honest, we decided that it didn't really matter.

This is JB and the GGA, they are quite capable of making themselves look fools without anyone's active intervention. We didn't see any reason to actively take part.

Plus I mean, the high point of the logs (Aside from seeing how JB treats his gov in private) is him saying he wants us dead, not exactly a revelation is it?

[Sooner]

[quote name='Ardus' date='27 May 2010 - 06:31 PM' timestamp='1275003088' post='2313989']
Entente-Order MADP 2010
[/quote]

Oh you sneaky....

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Sooner' date='27 May 2010 - 05:59 PM' timestamp='1274997562' post='2313908']
No no, we're not cleaning up your mess. You guys take care of the cancer that you never went after. In fact, you should make bilrow lead the charge to destroy GGA. It would be fitting since he wanted to remove a cancer from the Green Sphere. We might as well as let him do it again. He did such a good job the last time.
[/quote]
[url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&module=display&section=blog&blogid=219&showentry=725]I don't think they would have to make Bilrow do that.[/url]

[quote name='Bilrow' date='27 May 2010 - 07:18 PM' timestamp='1275002265' post='2313985']
You convince Cortath and I'm on that like flies on !@#$.
[/quote]
See?

[AirMe]

[quote name='BloodFury' date='27 May 2010 - 01:45 PM' timestamp='1274982340' post='2313668']
The evidence has been stacked and weighed against her, it's far too late to defend her. The information was leaked by her and you are only here to defend her because she is your member now. Maybe if you didn't so blindly turn your eyes away from your members actions you would see the truth that they are not as innocent as you think they are.

So in any event you have no idea what you are talking about and should maybe further evaluate the situation before you make any false accusations because I have been aware of this a long time before you have. Enyo was caught in a wrong and now you want to defend her when the evidence is stacked against her. My how you are a hypocrite.
[/quote]

There is one log that mentions her by name and it is nothing that is considered spying and is blown out of proportion. The only person that has actually called her a spy was you. You are the only one who brought up GPA, which btw you caused the trouble that made her leave GPA. You go as far as registering her IRC away nick in an effort to harass her. After you were confronted on the issue, you then had Yevgeni and EJayrazz register her away nick to continue the harassment. You have no place to be spouting off anything about Enyo in public.

I am glad I didn't take a blind eye to you and expelled you from Ronin when I found out how much of a trouble maker that you actually actually are.

If GGA had an issue with Enyo in Ronin JB or any other GGA gov could have brought the issue up at any time and presented me, or any of the other Triumvirs with the evidence and we could have made a judgment. But that never happened. All I got was a "Doesn't Ronin check it's recruits?"

[BloodFury]

[quote name='AirMe' date='27 May 2010 - 07:58 PM' timestamp='1275004678' post='2314001']
There is one log that mentions her by name and it is nothing that is considered spying and is blown out of proportion. The only person that has actually called her a spy was you. You are the only one who brought up GPA, which btw you caused the trouble that made her leave GPA. You go as far as registering her IRC away nick in an effort to harass her. After you were confronted on the issue, you then had Yevgeni and EJayrazz register her away nick to continue the harassment. You have no place to be spouting off anything about Enyo in public.

I am glad I didn't take a blind eye to you and expelled you from Ronin when I found out how much of a trouble maker that you actually actually are.

If GGA had an issue with Enyo in Ronin JB or any other GGA gov could have brought the issue up at any time and presented me, or any of the other Triumvirs with the evidence and we could have made a judgment. But that never happened. [b]All I got was a "Doesn't Ronin check it's recruits?"[/b]
[/quote]


While I don't see what anything you have said has anything to do with the situation at hand, it was always a concern when she left and joined you guys, however I have nothing to do with what is going on right now so try not to change the subject. If you want to discuss anything with me about me, you know where and how to do it.

I will quickly address the bolded section. You guys did when HisK was Minister of Internal Affairs, but I saw a huge lack of it when he left the position and it was handed off else where.

Though in an attempt to keep this thread on track if you want to discuss this anymore, you know what to do.

[Lennox]

A whole lotta hype over this? I've seen better. Move along children.

[Hippy]

I have to say I respect Enyo more than most of you for the simple reason that she hasn't posted in this thread.

I wish the grunts in GGA the best of luck.

[Felix von Agnu]

The only thing that disturbs me about those logs is the gov of GGA itself. I thought the coup was supposed to turn GGA into a better alliance. Now it seems like JB just wants to use the alliance to kill VE. Where it gets worse is where the rest of the gov (minus koolaid_ken, you honestly impressed me) just goes along with this plan. Running an alliance isn't about accomplishing a personal goal, its striving to accomplish what goals the community wishes, and what the community needs.

[AirMe]

[quote name='BloodFury' date='27 May 2010 - 08:21 PM' timestamp='1275006057' post='2314020']
While I don't see what anything you have said has anything to do with the situation at hand, it was always a concern when she left and joined you guys, however I have nothing to do with what is going on right now so try not to change the subject. If you want to discuss anything with me about me, you know where and how to do it.

I will quickly address the bolded section. You guys did when HisK was Minister of Internal Affairs, but I saw a huge lack of it when he left the position and it was handed off else where.

Though in an attempt to keep this thread on track if you want to discuss this anymore, you know what to do.
[/quote]

You seem to know a lot about GGA's inner workings. So much so one could claim you are a spy as well given you are not in the alliance nor are you allied to them.

See, I can make crazy stretches of the truth to link you to some nefarious spy plot as well.

[BloodFury]

[quote name='AirMe' date='27 May 2010 - 09:47 PM' timestamp='1275011228' post='2314107']
You seem to know a lot about GGA's inner workings. So much so one could claim you are a spy as well given you are not in the alliance nor are you allied to them.

See, I can make crazy stretches of the truth to link you to some nefarious spy plot as well.
[/quote]

Ohh because it would seem strange that I talk to people in GGA?

[PrinceArutha]

[quote name='AirMe' date='28 May 2010 - 02:47 AM' timestamp='1275011228' post='2314107']
You seem to know a lot about GGA's inner workings. So much so one could claim you are a spy as well given you are not in the alliance nor are you allied to them.

See, I can make crazy stretches of the truth to link you to some nefarious spy plot as well.
[/quote]

But, isn't your accusation exactly what a true spy would want everyone to think? Wouldnt a true spy try to place the blame on someone else? you seem to know a lot about "bloodfury" knowing a lot about the innerworkings of GGA's leadership. So much that one could claim that you were a spy as well, given that you are not in.... oh hell, yea, I see the stretch and I raise you some drama.


This has gotten WAAAAAY more attention than it deserves of should have gotten in the first place. And I totally dont buy the "we planted this to smoke out the mole... but we didnt tell anyone".

[Haflinger]

[quote name='PrinceArutha' date='27 May 2010 - 11:52 PM' timestamp='1275018752' post='2314244']
And I totally dont buy the "we planted this to smoke out the mole... but we didnt tell anyone".
[/quote]
See, the problem is it's GGA. With another alliance, it would be obviously a fake story. With these guys, it's hard to tell - maybe they DID try something that dumb.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='TypoNinja' date='26 May 2010 - 10:45 PM' timestamp='1274928306' post='2312943']
So your position is that logs leaked from your government channels aren't accurate but deliberately provocative information designed to flush out a mole, except you caught somebody you didn't think it was.

You sir, make Occam a very sad man.
[/quote]
[quote name='PrinceArutha' date='27 May 2010 - 11:52 PM' timestamp='1275018752' post='2314244']
This has gotten WAAAAAY more attention than it deserves of should have gotten in the first place. And I totally dont buy the "we planted this to smoke out the mole... but we didnt tell anyone".
[/quote]
It's called a "canary trap" and it's pretty standard, actually. It's exactly what TPF did to successfully flush out one of our Vox spies. Works better than all those retarded "invisible" serial numbers that xxxx, yyyyyy, ffffff, and wwwww implemented on their forums.

Basically, if you don't know how a canary trap works, you should probably excuse yourself from any conversation about leaks, spying, etc.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Schattenmann

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Schattenmann' date='28 May 2010 - 12:06 AM' timestamp='1275019594' post='2314250']
It's called a "canary trap" and it's pretty standard, actually. It's exactly what TPF did to successfully flush out one of our Vox spies. Works better than all those retarded "invisible" serial numbers that xxxx, yyyyyy, ffffff, and wwwww implemented on their forums.

Basically, if you don't know how a canary trap works, you should probably excuse yourself from any conversation about leaks, spying, etc.
[/quote]
Normally, with a canary trap, you alert SOMEONE you can trust to listen for the planted story to alert you. The fact that they claim to have done a canary trap with nobody listening for the canary's song is what makes this so ludicrous.