Jump to content

An Announcement from the Grand Global Alliance


Recommended Posts

[quote name='Rickyman1984' date='28 May 2010 - 08:08 AM' timestamp='1275052085' post='2314534']
Ahhh, nice to see me being put on PZI by the pre-Karma GGA Triumvirate doesn't disqualify me from being one of being one of the people who "led it to where it is now". Nor does it disqualify us that the [b]ENTIRE POINT OF THE FOUNDING OF OUR ALLIANCE[/b] was to get away from how the GGA was doing business.

Gotta love cheap easy stereotypes of alliances that you can shovel to your members to excuse any action or disrespectful attitudes you take. Luckily those of us in PhR don't have the same simplistic view of GGA. :)

Best of luck to general membership over there.
[/quote]
It could be worse, friend Richard. Every war I've led the poor Alliance in, I've not only lost, I surrendered. Hell, all I ever did was surrender!

That said ... um ... good luck, GGA? And what's all this 'GCW' stuff? 'Great Confusion War'? 'Great 100 War'?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 324
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

[quote name='Qaianna' date='29 May 2010 - 06:38 PM' timestamp='1275118681' post='2315392']
It could be worse, friend Richard. Every war I've led the poor Alliance in, I've not only lost, I surrendered. Hell, all I ever did was surrender!

That said ... um ... good luck, GGA? And what's all this 'GCW' stuff? 'Great Confusion War'? 'Great 100 War'?
[/quote]
I'm not sure if you're serious, but it's the Green Civil War, when VE, NTO and CIS were forced off green.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Qaianna' date='29 May 2010 - 03:38 AM' timestamp='1275118681' post='2315392']
It could be worse, friend Richard. Every war I've led the poor Alliance in, I've not only lost, I surrendered. Hell, all I ever did was surrender!

That said ... um ... good luck, GGA? And what's all this 'GCW' stuff? 'Great Confusion War'? 'Great 100 War'?
[/quote]
Green Civil War. Also called the "Emerald Affairs" or "Viridicide." I don't think I've heard EA used by anybody but GGA and ex-GGA members. Viridicide ignores the vast number of interests involved in the conflict and specifically NTO and CIS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='WorldConqueror' date='29 May 2010 - 02:44 AM' timestamp='1275119028' post='2315397']
I'm not sure if you're serious, but it's the Green Civil War, when VE, NTO and CIS were forced off green.
[/quote]
Sadly, I was. I'd not seen that abbreviation used. I'd heard of the event, tho; it was mentioned a few times as to why the Entente was ... reluctant to improve relations with the Alliance (along with other minor issues like ... things that were affecting GGA between the Karma War and the latest one).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Qaianna' date='29 May 2010 - 06:46 PM' timestamp='1275119178' post='2315399']
Sadly, I was. I'd not seen that abbreviation used. I'd heard of the event, tho; it was mentioned a few times as to why the Entente was ... reluctant to improve relations with the Alliance (along with other minor issues like ... things that were affecting GGA between the Karma War and the latest one).
[/quote]
Ah, yeah it can get confusing with all the different names that people use for the various wars. As for GGA, well I hope that they get their house back in order, the Bilrow-era GGA was one of my favourite alliances, back then they were unified and purposeful, not like the shambles it is today.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Qaianna' date='29 May 2010 - 03:46 AM' timestamp='1275119178' post='2315399']
Sadly, I was. I'd not seen that abbreviation used. I'd heard of the event, tho; it was mentioned a few times as to why the Entente was ... reluctant to improve relations with the Alliance (along with other minor issues like ... things that were affecting GGA between the Karma War and the latest one).
[/quote]

It has more to do with VE being reluctant to blindly follow JB's 'vision' for green unity, as the two major hallmarks of JB's involvement in 'green unity' include the Viridicide and the Dilrow Doctrine. Forgive me if VE was skeptical.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Mussolandia' date='29 May 2010 - 01:05 AM' timestamp='1275109519' post='2315299']
I think it's fair to say you're wrong, considering how UJW took the NPO by surprise and the GGA was involved in it from the start. Again, you're using popular catchphrases and superficial knowledge whilst ignoring major events in history. If it makes you happy, more power to you.
[/quote]

Ok, no question that back in the spring of 2007 GGA was indeed a major power on the world scene, and that they continued to be a viable military power for some time after that. But if you are going to tell me that NPO didn't know about the UJW weeks in advance, I'm going to have to remind you of the repeated attempts in the lead up to the war by myself and others at \m/, GOONS, TPF, etc. to discuss the world situation with NPO in private IRC channels and how basically we were allowed to eat static. NPO knew. If we're making sure we get history right, then let's get history right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='29 May 2010 - 09:33 AM' timestamp='1275139968' post='2315513']
Ok, no question that back in the spring of 2007 GGA was indeed a major power on the world scene, and that they continued to be a viable military power for some time after that. But if you are going to tell me that NPO didn't know about the UJW weeks in advance, I'm going to have to remind you of the repeated attempts in the lead up to the war by myself and others at \m/, GOONS, TPF, etc. to discuss the world situation with NPO in private IRC channels and how basically we were allowed to eat static. NPO knew. If we're making sure we get history right, then let's get history right.
[/quote]

Hal, I'd like to introduce you to the idea of [i]crimestop[/i]. If you're not sure what I mean, go ask someone in the NPO about their role in undermining Polaris before the noCB War. They'll have no idea what you're talking about. Presumably that group now includes Mussolandia, someone who left the NPO precisely because of Pacifica's double-dealing, back-stabbing ways.

Anyway, the actual topic ceased to be the focus of discussion some time ago, which is probably for the best considering how pointless said discussion had become.

Good luck in the future, GGA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='29 May 2010 - 01:33 PM' timestamp='1275139968' post='2315513']
Ok, no question that back in the spring of 2007 GGA was indeed a major power on the world scene, and that they continued to be a viable military power for some time after that. But if you are going to tell me that NPO didn't know about the UJW weeks in advance, I'm going to have to remind you of the repeated attempts in the lead up to the war by myself and others at \m/, GOONS, TPF, etc. to discuss the world situation with NPO in private IRC channels and how basically we were allowed to eat static. NPO knew. If we're making sure we get history right, then let's get history right.
[/quote]

Yes, of course we knew it was coming, but NPO would have rather not have it happen at all. The NPO chugged along and did the best it could to navigate through a situation that was not of its creation. That's what I mean. Our relative power had declined to the point where we had our options limited and we were forced to follow someone else's lead. We did that well enough that we looked better than NpO when the war was over. GGA had much more to do with UJW than NPO did.

I am happy to see that two of the responses to my post on the last page are qualified by "I wasn't there" or "from what I heard and read". I appreciate the honesty and I see why people from VE might have a problem with GGA. I also ask you to understand you might not be the most objective participants in this debate.

[quote]So?

GGA played the bully for a very long time, and the stick they used to play bully was the threat of involving their allies. For the majority of that time, their most feared ally was Pacifica. A relatively brief period when they were closer to Polaris than Pacifica doesnt change the pattern they are remembered for.[/quote]

So GGA was a mighty follower, like 99% of alliances (including yours), for the most part. Yet GGA played, of its own initative and volition, a major role in the disintegration of CNARF, in the creation of WUT and the unwinding of the South of the treaty web. Long before, it also attempted to stop the NPO (rather awkwardly) through the Independence Council. Those are situations where GGA tried to lead, with varying degrees of success. I think it's a decent record and it beats the crap out of most alliances. The long decline the alliance has faced in the last few years does a lot to make people forget this, but to deny it means denying history.

EDIT: I'm back in NPO, kingzog, so be careful what you wish for :P

Edited by Mussolandia
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' date='29 May 2010 - 09:48 AM' timestamp='1275140918' post='2315519']
Hal, I'd like to introduce you to the idea of [i]crimestop[/i]. If you're not sure what I mean, go ask someone in the NPO about their role in undermining Polaris before the noCB War. They'll have no idea what you're talking about. Presumably that group now includes Mussolandia, someone who left the NPO precisely because of Pacifica's double-dealing, back-stabbing ways.

Anyway, the actual topic ceased to be the focus of discussion some time ago, which is probably for the best considering how pointless said discussion had become.

Good luck in the future, GGA.
[/quote]

I'd like to introduce you to the New Pacific Order. Why don't you ask us about our history with NpO in your embassy with us?

Also, shame on you. It's the Polars who use the Orwellian language.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Mussolandia' date='29 May 2010 - 11:20 AM' timestamp='1275146422' post='2315580']I'm back in NPO, kingzog, so be careful what you wish for :P[/quote]

If you read my post a bit more carefully, you'll see I was already aware of this and was actually taking you to task for it. (If you feel like explaining your Damascene conversion, I believe a PM would be more appropriate.)

[quote name='Cortath' date='29 May 2010 - 11:51 AM' timestamp='1275148271' post='2315592']
I'd like to introduce you to the New Pacific Order. Why don't you ask us about our history with NpO in your embassy with us?[/quote]

The topic has already been discussed in that Embassy. Pacifican responses were completely expected: denial and double-talk. Ignoring completely the active work that was done to undermine Polaris, all that was admitted to was a mere 'removal of Pacifica's protection' of Polaris. Such sophistry [i]might[/i] have worked on someone who wasn't privy to Pacifica's efforts well before the actual events took place.

I used the example in reference to Hal's point above, not as an attempt to turn this into a discussion of the NPO. If you have anything relevant to add -- by which I mean something beyond flat denials and twisting of words -- then yes, the Embassy would be the place to do it. (I generally visit at least once each weekday.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Two of GGA's leaders are very dear friends of mine; a few months ago, I rejected a potential treaty with their new GGA on the sole basis that JB is an utterly terrible excuse for a leader who would only get them (and, if a treaty were to exist, my alliance) in such trouble they couldn't get out of it.

Recently, they asked me to reconsider my opinion of JB. Unfortunately, I cannot reconsider what is an absolute fact - that is, that JB has no business as leadership of any alliance, let alone one with such great historical problems as GGA.

If Dementual and Roy Mustang were in charge of GGA, the alliance might be flourishing. This is just pitiful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Mussolandia' date='29 May 2010 - 11:20 AM' timestamp='1275146422' post='2315580']
Yes, of course we knew it was coming, but NPO would have rather not have it happen at all. The NPO chugged along and did the best it could to navigate through a situation that was not of its creation. That's what I mean. Our relative power had declined to the point where we had our options limited and we were forced to follow someone else's lead. We did that well enough that we looked better than NpO when the war was over. GGA had much more to do with UJW than NPO did.[/quote]

While I would agree with you for the most part, what you probably didn't realize at the time was just how bitter some became afterward toward NPO. I've been at peace with the events of that era for some time now--I've able to put myself in Moo's place, see both the extreme external and internal stresses NPO was under, and understand that the best decision was made for NPO at the time. It was however still a very unfortunate decision for NPO. Many of those who later supported Vox were former members of \m/, Genmay, GOONS, and other alliances on the losing end of the UJW and saw an unforgivable act of betrayal in NPO's actions and sought revenge. Indeed I was approached on several occasions by different members of Vox to join their cause on that basis.

[quote]The long decline the alliance has faced in the last few years does a lot to make people forget this, but to deny it means denying history.[/quote]

If people are being honest about what caused the slow decline of GGA from one of the "powers that be" to a Planet Bob joke, I think you really only need to look within your own ranks, Mussolandia. Bilrow's departure more than any single event led to that decline.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='29 May 2010 - 02:26 PM' timestamp='1275157584' post='2315723']
If people are being honest about what caused the slow decline of GGA from one of the "powers that be" to a Planet Bob joke, I think you really only need to look within your own ranks, Mussolandia. Bilrow's departure more than any single event led to that decline.[/quote]

Oh no, that's not true at all. Before his departure from the GGA, Bilrow had told me many times about how disappointed he was with activity levels within the alliance. I don't remember the exact phrase he used, but it was something like, 'I'm surprised that [i]anyone[/i] shows up after we declare war."

The decline was already happening. It just wasn't visible to outside eyes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='WorldConqueror' date='29 May 2010 - 03:54 AM' timestamp='1275119658' post='2315401']
Ah, yeah it can get confusing with all the different names that people use for the various wars. As for GGA, well I hope that they get their house back in order, the Bilrow-era GGA was one of my favourite alliances, back then they were unified and purposeful, not like the shambles it is today.
[/quote]

We tend to identify it as the Green Civil War, though it was understandably a defining moment in our history the label "viridicide" down plays the fact that many others were affected in the same time period so tends to get used internally when referring directly to the events as they affected us rather than the wars as a whole.

I'd never even heard the term Emerald Affairs for it till after I returned and talked with GGA. Though that labeling makes sense from their point of view, it downplays the reality by giving it a label that sounds more like a political incident than the forced depopulation of a sphere. After all who wants to admit in their own history that they managed to screw up bad enough to cripple the team they live on?

Raise your hand if you remember when Green was the largest team. Years later we still haven't recovered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='TypoNinja' date='29 May 2010 - 04:15 PM' timestamp='1275164102' post='2315833']
We tend to identify it as the Green Civil War, though it was understandably a defining moment in our history the label "viridicide" down plays the fact that many others were affected in the same time period so tends to get used internally when referring directly to the events as they affected us rather than the wars as a whole.

I'd never even heard the term Emerald Affairs for it till after I returned and talked with GGA. Though that labeling makes sense from their point of view, it downplays the reality by giving it a label that sounds more like a political incident than the forced depopulation of a sphere. After all who wants to admit in their own history that they managed to screw up bad enough to cripple the team they live on?

Raise your hand if you remember when Green was the largest team. Years later we still haven't recovered.
[/quote]

This was instructive, particularly to those of us who were around, but not part of the action: http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Green_Civil_War

What I found fascinating is that Gramlins basically elected not to participate, despite the existence of the Green Solidarity treaty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Chimaera' date='29 May 2010 - 07:00 PM' timestamp='1275152385' post='2315639']
Two of GGA's leaders are very dear friends of mine; a few months ago, I rejected a potential treaty with their new GGA on the sole basis that JB is an utterly terrible excuse for a leader who would only get them (and, if a treaty were to exist, my alliance) in such trouble they couldn't get out of it.

Recently, they asked me to reconsider my opinion of JB. Unfortunately, I cannot reconsider what is an absolute fact - that is, that JB has no business as leadership of any alliance, let alone one with such great historical problems as GGA.

If Dementual and Roy Mustang were in charge of GGA, the alliance might be flourishing. This is just pitiful.
[/quote]

I tend to agree, even though i differ from opinion with Dementual and RM on certain items,i found them willing to listen.

However it is up to the GGA (Government and wider scale) itself to cleanse itself.
I truly wish for the GGA to flourish once more, but they'll have to make some difficult changes to make that happen.

I'm fully aware that some might scream bias due to my former position, but anyone who has been observant must surely share this opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='29 May 2010 - 04:29 PM' timestamp='1275164931' post='2315848']
This was instructive, particularly to those of us who were around, but not part of the action: http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Green_Civil_War

What I found fascinating is that Gramlins basically elected not to participate, despite the existence of the Green Solidarity treaty.
[/quote]
Grämlins were told not to fight. Every report I've had is that they wanted to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='29 May 2010 - 04:29 PM' timestamp='1275164931' post='2315848']
What I found fascinating is that Gramlins basically elected not to participate, despite the existence of the Green Solidarity treaty.
[/quote]

That's why everybody forgets them when listing the alliances involved. Most even forget they were on green at one point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='29 May 2010 - 06:26 PM' timestamp='1275157584' post='2315723']
While I would agree with you for the most part, what you probably didn't realize at the time was just how bitter some became afterward toward NPO. I've been at peace with the events of that era for some time now--I've able to put myself in Moo's place, see both the extreme external and internal stresses NPO was under, and understand that the best decision was made for NPO at the time. It was however still a very unfortunate decision for NPO. Many of those who later supported Vox were former members of \m/, Genmay, GOONS, and other alliances on the losing end of the UJW and saw an unforgivable act of betrayal in NPO's actions and sought revenge. Indeed I was approached on several occasions by different members of Vox to join their cause on that basis.



If people are being honest about what caused the slow decline of GGA from one of the "powers that be" to a Planet Bob joke, I think you really only need to look within your own ranks, Mussolandia. Bilrow's departure more than any single event led to that decline.
[/quote]

I was approached by members of Vox to join them on account of NPO's position on the noCB war. In fact, Vox's core belonged to the NpO side of things, more so than the defeated UJP people. NPO's decision in UJW was, strategically, the best course of action. Neutrality would have been disastrous, since it would have led to the enmity of everyone involved (see how well that worked out for Legion and ODN in GWII). UJP was going to lose that war considering the numbers piled against them. There are winners and losers to every decision and there was, realistically, nothing the NPO could do to satisfy everyone. I got shafted during noCB but I understand why some might have thought it was a good decision. I still maintain that was a bad [i]strategic [/i]decision, since it more or less meant sacrificing the same core NPO fought for months before, leaving them at the mercy of fair weather allies in Continuum. But that's history. The world has changed.

A global power will screw some allies and help others, mostly because they want to keep things as they are. This has happened to Mushroom Kingdom et. al. in the last war and it will happen to them again.

I was not trying to explain the reasons for the decline of the Grand Global Alliance. There are many and I'm sure others know more about them than I do. It is apparent a new chapter in its decline has been written today. Jonathan Brookbank was leading a floating carcass of 60 or so nations that has no spirit or will to fight. That someone like him would be the paramount leader of a once mighty alliance is telling enough. I like Brookbank, I think he's (mostly) well natured, but he is extremely unfit to lead an alliance. I said as much to my former comrades and I'm sorry to see I was right.

Edited by Mussolandia
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just briefly have to address that point, being an ex-Grämlin. We were prepped and ready for war, and VE told us not to get ourselves killed because they'd decided to admit defeat. It is not the topic of this thread so if you want to discuss it in more depth, start another one ;)

Well, JB has now moved on from GGA, so the rest of the senior figures can now stop following along with his foolishness. Hopefully their goal isn't also to destroy VE :awesome:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='30 May 2010 - 02:10 PM' timestamp='1275253792' post='2317011']
I just briefly have to address that point, being an ex-Grämlin. We were prepped and ready for war, and VE told us not to get ourselves killed because they'd decided to admit defeat. It is not the topic of this thread so if you want to discuss it in more depth, start another one ;)

Well, JB has now moved on from GGA, so the rest of the senior figures can now stop following along with his foolishness. Hopefully their goal isn't also to destroy VE :awesome:
[/quote]


From what I remember, since I was in the VE at the time, yeah, we were ready for the disbandment. We didn't believe Gramlins would help (as far as the normal members went) but we also knew that it was pointless to involve any one else. Live to fight another day, eh?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...