The Iron Curtain

[heggo]

I guess M6 will have a lot of takers, then.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Left_Behind' date='16 May 2010 - 03:54 PM' timestamp='1274039681' post='2300141']
Then whats the real story? I know the RL history but that really don't make the bloc name funny to me.
[/quote]
Sadly, at this point it's all a private channels for the win kinda thing. But oh well.

Just trust me that the person who thought of the name wasn't thinking of IRON at the time, heh.

M6, I know where you're coming from, but you're wrong about Hydra - at least now. They were good, and yeah they could have bailed pretty easily.

[pezstar]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='16 May 2010 - 07:21 PM' timestamp='1274052083' post='2300568']
Bit of revisionism here. Your declaration of war on CSN was almost entirely symbolic, more of a "look at me!" kind of thing than an actual defense of STA. STA may have appreciated the symbolism, but we were only at war with them for a few hours after your declaration anyway. I think you might have launched one war (that or none).

Just thought I'd make that clear.
[/quote]

Here's something I'd like to make clear. First and foremost, NSO had no way of knowing that the war between STA and CSN was about to be over. As far as both STA and NSO knew, it was going to last quite awhile. So while it ended up not being a necessary thing in the end, when the declaration was made, they were ready and willing to be in it for the long haul.

Secondly, since you so thoughtfully decided to disparage STA's friends in NSO, I'd just like to point out what kind of ally folks can expect from CSN. At the time of your declaration, it was pretty well known that the only one of our allies who would be able to defend us was Silence. You also hold a defensive level treaty with them. Having your choice of targets, as numerous folks were attacking your allies, you chose, rather than attacking someone who wouldn't put an alliance you claim to give a crap about in an uncomfortable position, to attack STA, placing your friend and ally in Silence in the really crappy position of having two friends fighting each other. Sure, sure. That's the way it had to be, you said when confronted about it. It is what it is, I suppose.

Just thought I'd make that clear.

Edited May 17, 2010 by pezstar

[BlkAK47_002]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='16 May 2010 - 07:21 PM' timestamp='1274052083' post='2300568']
Bit of revisionism here. Your declaration of war on CSN was almost entirely symbolic, more of a "look at me!" kind of thing than an actual defense of STA. STA may have appreciated the symbolism, but we were only at war with them for a few hours after your declaration anyway. I think you might have launched one war (that or none).

Just thought I'd make that clear.
[/quote]
lol, wow.....Just wow.....

Prepare to be dogpiled by logic, facts and common sense!

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Jrenster' date='16 May 2010 - 11:46 PM' timestamp='1274053583' post='2300595']
Merrie, you're one of the few in \m/ that I've heard good things about, but I'm not going to stand by when you make stupid comments like this. Did you read a single thing I said? We. Don't. Care. About. \m/. You came in here for NATO and you don't expect us to defend them? And where do you get off talking about war now? Is this how wars start nowadays? Because someone in \m/ decided to make a bad argument? Good God.
[/quote]
We hate NATO, you defend NATO, that pretty much tells the story.

[Leftbehind]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='17 May 2010 - 01:00 AM' timestamp='1274054408' post='2300615']
Sadly, at this point it's all a private channels for the win kinda thing. But oh well.

Just trust me that the person who thought of the name wasn't thinking of IRON at the time, heh.
[/quote]

Then why did you even bring it up? I wasn't thinking about IRON either since if IRON was in the bloc it would be a stupid name.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='16 May 2010 - 08:13 PM' timestamp='1274055194' post='2300628']
We hate NATO, you defend NATO, that pretty much tells the story.
[/quote]

Is this that 2-3 year old grudge from UJW?

[Jace Couture]

[quote name='Jrenster' date='16 May 2010 - 08:32 PM' timestamp='1274056306' post='2300655']
Is this that 2-3 year old grudge from UJW?
[/quote]

Yes. Yes it is. Don't really have much more to say about it.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Left_Behind' date='16 May 2010 - 08:25 PM' timestamp='1274055894' post='2300645']
Then why did you even bring it up?[/quote]
Because I like flaunting stuff.

Or something. It's not really important in itself though.

[quote name='Left_Behind' date='16 May 2010 - 08:25 PM' timestamp='1274055894' post='2300645']
I wasn't thinking about IRON either since if IRON was in the bloc it would be a stupid name.
[/quote]
Well, that makes you kinda unusual. First couple pages were full of cracks about IRON not being in the bloc.

[Icepick]

[quote name='Jace Couture' date='16 May 2010 - 07:39 PM' timestamp='' post='']
Yes. Yes it is. Don't really have much more to say about it.
[/quote]
Other than they need to get over it, no one cares about the UJW anymore.

[Jace Couture]

[quote name='CodyHaner' date='16 May 2010 - 08:41 PM' timestamp='1274056860' post='2300674']
Other than they need to get over it, no one cares about the UJW anymore.
[/quote]

I thought that went without saying?

I'm waiting for someone to come out and say they hold a grudge from the very first GW, I half expect it at this point.

[Lord Brendan]

I'm not knocking the symbolic declaration, it was a nice gesture. But it [i]was[/i] purely symbolic. I actually had a conversation with Heft that night, it went something like this:
[quote]Me: So are you guys going to launch any wars?
Heft: Probably not
Me: So it was more of a symbolic gesture?
Heft: Yeah
Me: Cool
[/quote]

True story.

[quote name='pezstar' date='16 May 2010 - 08:02 PM' timestamp='1274054534' post='2300617']
Here's something I'd like to make clear. First and foremost, NSO had no way of knowing that the war between STA and CSN was about to be over. As far as both STA and NSO knew, it was going to last quite awhile. So while it ended up not being a necessary thing in the end, when the declaration was made, they were ready and willing to be in it for the long haul.

Secondly, since you so thoughtfully decided to disparage STA's friends in NSO, I'd just like to point out what kind of ally folks can expect from CSN. At the time of your declaration, it was pretty well known that the only one of our allies who would be able to defend us was Silence. You also hold a defensive level treaty with them. Having your choice of targets, as numerous folks were attacking your allies, you chose, rather than attacking someone who wouldn't put an alliance you claim to give a crap about in an uncomfortable position, to attack STA, placing your friend and ally in Silence in the really crappy position of having two friends fighting each other. Sure, sure. That's the way it had to be, you said when confronted about it. It is what it is, I suppose.

Just thought I'd make that clear.
[/quote]

Ouch man, that's not even fighting fair. The position we put Silence in is one of my two greatest regrets, but I'm not sure what it has to do with the argument at hand.

The fact that they didn't know the war would be over soon is a good point, however I do not believe they ever intended to provide tangible support, whether it was for a few hours or a few months.

[quote name='BlkAK47002' date='16 May 2010 - 08:07 PM' timestamp='1274054855' post='2300621']
lol, wow.....Just wow.....

Prepare to be dogpiled by logic, facts and common sense!
[/quote]

Umm, ok?

[Leftbehind]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='17 May 2010 - 01:40 AM' timestamp='1274056841' post='2300673']
Because I like flaunting stuff.

Or something. It's not really important in itself though.


Well, that makes you kinda unusual. First couple pages were full of cracks about IRON not being in the bloc.
[/quote]

Fine be that way.

I am unusual you can ask anyone in NV about that besides I figured NSO and co would be better then making some lame IRON joke.

[heggo]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='16 May 2010 - 07:44 PM' timestamp='1274057045' post='2300678']
snip
[/quote]
If you really had that conversation with Heft, who wasn't then and isn't now NSO gov, why don't you give logs of it instead of giving us some made up dramatization of it? In any case, it's irrelevant. We did what we could as best as we could given the circumstances. I can't regret not having given more as I had no more to give.

[Jacapo Saladin]

[img]http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r393/MajorTeets/M6-message.png[/img]
Sent to most if not all of Hydra's members

Showing class as always M6.

[pezstar]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='16 May 2010 - 08:44 PM' timestamp='1274057045' post='2300678']
Ouch man, that's not even fighting fair. The position we put Silence in is one of my two greatest regrets, but I'm not sure what it has to do with the argument at hand.

The fact that they didn't know the war would be over soon is a good point, however I do not believe they ever intended to provide tangible support, whether it was for a few hours or a few months.

[/quote]

I know NSO well. I've spent many, many hours working with them closely, both in Frostbite and after the dissolution of that bloc. You do not know NSO. You've never been in the position of working with them, let alone had the privilege of doing so long term. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion of their actions. Know that it is just that, however... an opinion. Having worked closely with them in the war we are discussing, I was privy to their target sheets. I know, as a statement of fact, what they were planning for CSN. The fact of the matter is that you are wrong.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='heggo' date='16 May 2010 - 08:59 PM' timestamp='1274057950' post='2300696']
If you really had that conversation with Heft, who wasn't then and isn't now NSO gov, why don't you give logs of it instead of giving us some made up dramatization of it? In any case, it's irrelevant. We did what we could as best as we could given the circumstances. I can't regret not having given more as I had no more to give.
[/quote]

Because I don't keep logs. If my word is not enough, what would logs prove? That is the gist of the conversation, I'm sure Heft will confirm it.

I'm not saying you should regret it - on the contrary, it was a commendable action. I'm just pointing out that you were purposely overextending yourselves and you would never have realistically been able to assist STA.

Pez, target lists don't really mean much. Given the fact that in the (month? two?) of war that followed they declared about 3 wars against us, I think my opinion is well founded.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Lord Brendan

[pezstar]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='16 May 2010 - 09:06 PM' timestamp='1274058349' post='2300708']
Because I don't keep logs. If my word is not enough, what would logs prove?

I'm not saying you should regret it - on the contrary, it was a commendable action. I'm just pointing out that you were purposely overextending yourselves and you would never have realistically been able to assist STA.

Pez, target lists don't really mean much. Given the fact that in the (month? two?) of war that followed they declared about 3 wars against us, I think my opinion is well founded.
[/quote]

No. That's not what you're saying. That's what you're trying to say now that you've been called out on it. What you actually said was that they had no intention of defending STA, but merely declared as a symbolic gesture. And you're full of crap.

[heggo]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='16 May 2010 - 08:06 PM' timestamp='1274058349' post='2300708']
If my word is not enough, what would logs prove?
[/quote]
Giving a dramatization of an IRC conversation you had ages ago, in contradiction of what all involved parties are saying is, quite frankly, hilarious.

Edit: I'm not necessarily calling you a liar. I'm merely noting that memory can be fallible, and you may not have understood what Heft was meaning to begin with.

Edited May 17, 2010 by heggo

[Lenny N Karl]

[quote name='Jacapo Saladin' date='17 May 2010 - 02:03 AM' timestamp='1274058219' post='2300706']
[img]http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r393/MajorTeets/M6-message.png[/img]
Sent to most if not all of Hydra's members

Showing class as always M6.
[/quote]

Folks are already trying to start something with the new bloc? At least \m/, as a professional, diplomatic, and respected alliance will publicly condemn these actions. You all just watch...

[Lennox]

Haters gunna hate.

[heggo]

People are sending psyops messages to Hydra? But we copyrighted that when we did that to Gre! Durn it, M6, pay us royalties!

[Haflinger]

Frankly, Heft was at war with you. The first rule of being at war is that you attempt to mislead your opponent. If you're in query with someone who's trying to destroy you, do not expect honesty - especially when you're asking about their battle plan, lol.

[Icepick]

[quote name='Jacapo Saladin' date='16 May 2010 - 08:03 PM' timestamp='' post='']
[img]http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r393/MajorTeets/M6-message.png[/img]
Sent to most if not all of Hydra's members

Showing class as always M6.
[/quote]
I love the class in that message, telling other alliances that your problem are their's and not yours.

[M6 Redneck]

Message sent to all of Hydra. I care THAT much.

I hold strong convictions that Hydra is a terminally sad and tumerous alliance. As such I did what I could to inform the membership of Hydra of this.

Dont applaud - I really am that altruistic!

For the record the advice on where to go is and was, "Check the OWF recruitment thread".

This was certainly not a clumsly attempt to gain \m/embers. I only wanted to save those seduced by Hydra.

\M/6