The Easter Sunday Accords

[Sephiroth]

As far as the IRON war I think people are free to do as they want to get Gremlins to peace out since no one is siding with Gremlins on it.

[Krack]

[quote name='Fallen_Fool' date='07 April 2010 - 03:43 PM' timestamp='1270673006' post='2252028']
I don't doubt that Xiph's initial reaction was rabid indignation followed by a desire to destroy Polar and then deeply salt the earth. After he cooled down and realized that Polar under Penguin was not a threat, however, it was logical to assume that he'd want to refocus all his energy and resources fighting elsewhere. The assumption was that if Fark belligerently refused to refocus then Xiph, and presumably the rest of SF, would respond negatively and bring more pressure to bear towards an equitable peace.

[b]Not an illogical theory really[/b], but definitely one that didn't seem to pan out. Largely, I think, because Fark proved reasonable and NSO proved...difficult, but also possibly because we, in a rather long moment of desperation, misread the situation and personalities involved in it.
[/quote]

It's only an illogical theory if you take into account things like (1) the personalities of the people in leadership in Super Friends, (2) the collective intelligence of those in Super Friends, and (3) the tactical and strategic thinking abilities of those in Super Friends. It makes perfect sense if you ignore that stuff.

[heggo]

[quote name='Fallen_Fool' date='07 April 2010 - 03:43 PM' timestamp='1270673006' post='2252028']
For example, Grub could have told GOD that he didn't want a prolonged or intensive conflict. Both are potentially true (I'm not Grub so I can't attest to his feelings), but neither ensure that Polar ever sought a quick out or held back. If anything, by stating his opinion Grub could have potentially encouraged GOD to increase their pressure on Fark by showing them that this wasn't a war we particularly wanted and it's one we would have ended quickly if possible.
[/quote]
I don't think telling someone that you're just going to give their alliance a quick in and out will instill much fear in them or strengthen your bargaining position. But with Grub, who knows? Complete stupidity and cruel malice can be hard to distinguish, sometimes.

Edited April 7, 2010 by heggo

[Some-Guy]

TOP only has room for one grudge at a time, thank you very much.

[D34th]

[quote name='KainIIIC' date='07 April 2010 - 07:13 PM' timestamp='1270674775' post='2252066']
You covered it alright. You may have overlooked that the GOD war itself was completely symbolic, contributed almost nothing militarily to your allies (as GOD wasn't, you know, actually fighting us), and as we all know, did little to achieve a quicker resolution with Fark.
[/quote]

Can you please give me back then all the infra that I lost symbolic fighting to help you guys to get peace please?

Each time that I see an NSO member post about this war I feel less sorry for not being allied with you anymore.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='D34th' date='07 April 2010 - 06:19 PM' timestamp='1270678776' post='2252153']
Can you please give me back then all the infra that I lost symbolic fighting to help you guys to get peace please?

Each time that I see an NSO member post about this war I feel less sorry for not being allied with you anymore.
[/quote]
Your asking to get back the infra you lost for an empty symbolic gesture when they risked it all for you not considering losses when entering?

[D34th]

[quote name='Methrage' date='07 April 2010 - 08:24 PM' timestamp='1270679049' post='2252156']
Your asking to get back the infra you lost for an empty symbolic gesture when they risked it all for you not considering losses when entering?
[/quote]

Exactly because unlike NSO we appreciated and were thankful for what they did for us and we don't say that they efforts were useless and symbolic. If fact if there are a ungrateful alliance it is NSO.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='D34th' date='07 April 2010 - 06:45 PM' timestamp='1270680307' post='2252177']
Exactly because unlike NSO we appreciated and were thankful for what they did for us and we don't say that they efforts were useless and symbolic. If fact if there are a ungrateful alliance it is NSO.
[/quote]
You don't seem thankful right now and seem ungrateful of NSO yourself. Even though it made no sense you guys were hitting GOD who NSO barely had any wars going, NSO was still very grateful as well as TOP. They weren't so grateful when they realized why you hit GOD rather than somewhere that would make a difference like Fark.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Methrage

[The Crimson King]

[quote name='D34th' date='07 April 2010 - 06:45 PM' timestamp='1270680307' post='2252177']
Exactly because unlike NSO we appreciated and were thankful for what they did for us and we don't say that they efforts were useless and symbolic. If fact if there are a ungrateful alliance it is NSO.
[/quote]


And I believe you showed them exactly how appreciative and thankful you were for their effort by scurrying off to peace while leaving them holding the bag.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='D34th' date='07 April 2010 - 06:45 PM' timestamp='1270680307' post='2252177']
Exactly because unlike NSO we appreciated and were thankful for what they did for us and we don't say that they efforts were useless and symbolic. If fact if there are a ungrateful alliance it is NSO.
[/quote]

Get off your high horse. We did nothing to you. You brought it upon yourself by attacking GoD, the least important target in that front. And I'm sorry if I'm coming off rather harsh than usual, but I am getting tired of this !@#$%^&* pipe that's being passed around. And for the record, if by thankful, you mean leave the field of battle twice, then yes, that was a welcome sight. The Sith were most definitely aspired when they saw the Polar army shaking hands with the enemies and waving the white flag of peace when we were still being shot at by those same enemies. And this happened twice in this war. The first time was for absolutely no reason whatsoever. You tried to redeem yourself by hitting GoD, thinking that it would help. We appreciate the gesture. Really, we do. But as your former Boss just told you, you couldn't attack Fark because you guys liked Fark better than us at the time.

Thanks.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Jrenster

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='D34th' date='07 April 2010 - 05:19 PM' timestamp='1270678776' post='2252153']
Can you please give me back then all the infra that I lost symbolic fighting to help you guys to get peace please?

Each time that I see an NSO member post about this war I feel less sorry for not being allied with you anymore.
[/quote]

How about I get back the infra and NS that I lost fighting all for our allies in the war that YOUR leader started. Whether it was defending you against FOK and getting dogpiled by LEO/SF, to helping our old buds in STA against CSN when no one else would (which continued over, unfortunately), to staying and fighting with IRON while counter-declaring to keep our allies in Hydra and CD/ICB without an obligation for further defense. We fought until we were given terms by Fark, which occurred after quite a bit and only after much OWF complaining and rabble. These are our actions during the last war, and we stand by them fully - ALL of them with our allies in mind rather than ourselves thank you.

It is just simply very unfortunate to the way your leader handled his decisions that he made in the war - where there were numerous occasions of a breach of trust between us. We would have gone to the end for you, you know that. I just wish that you wouldn't apply those intentions to us that in most of our judgement is completely false. That is all.

[Ivan Moldavi]

Unfortunately the revisionists have taken root. Regardless of [i]anything[/i] that happened later in the war, every event was caused by Polar abandoning its "allies" on the field with no resolution and no support, diplomatic or otherwise.

To say anything else is a blatant lie. To rationalize and attempt to justify your later actions in which you were just trying to convince the world that you hadn't acted like complete douchebags is another one. To be pissy because the NSO got upset at having an ally abandon it when it went in against vastly superior (numerically) forces is absurd.

[D34th]

[quote name='Methrage' date='07 April 2010 - 08:50 PM' timestamp='1270680625' post='2252189']
You don't seem thankful right now and seem ungrateful of NSO yourself. Even though it made no sense you guys were hitting GOD who NSO barely had any wars going, NSO was still very grateful as well as TOP. They weren't so grateful when they realized why you hit GOD rather than somewhere that would make a difference like Fark.
[/quote]

What you expected? That I should still be grateful after all the hate that NSO has showed to my alliance? All this "You attacked GOD not FARK" is a very tiring argument, NSO asked for help and we helped NSO in the best way in [b]OUR OPINION[/b], if you or NSO doesn't like our help and tried to dictated who we should declare it isn't our problem but I have to say that [b]I[/b] don't regret our decision [b]IN THIS MATTER[/b] not even a bit.

[quote name='The Crimson King' date='07 April 2010 - 08:52 PM' timestamp='1270680726' post='2252191']
And I believe you showed them exactly how appreciative and thankful you were for their effort by scurrying off to peace while leaving them holding the bag.
[/quote]

If you doesn't know what happened and think that we doesn't tried to get peace for NSO I advice you to ask around the others sides of the history before talking about that, but of course you wont do that, it's easier criticize with a blind hate those who aren't in the same side of your alliance/allies.

Edited April 7, 2010 by D34th

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='D34th' date='07 April 2010 - 07:02 PM' timestamp='1270681319' post='2252211']
What you expected? That I should still be grateful after all the hate that NSO has showed to my alliance? All this "You attacked GOD not FARK" is a very tiring argument, NSO asked for help and we helped NSO in the best way in [b]OUR OPINION[/b], if you or NSO doesn't like our help and tried to dictated who we should declare it isn't our problem but I have to say that [b]I[/b] don't regret our decision [b]IN THIS MATTER[/b] not even a bit.
[/quote]
My point is opinions change, they were grateful when they first saw you declaring on god, but don't expect them to be eternally grateful when you have this attitude towards them. Even if a few of their posters don't respect you guys doesn't mean you need to be dispectful towards all them who sacraficed for you. Some not saying a word of complaint about you guys abandoning NSO on the battlefield. I don't know who your trying to convince of what.

[tamerlane]

Ivan- I think people are more pissy over NSO's pre-war fence straddling that led to the draw and quartering of Frostbite between the two sides. You knew the political map as well as where it was going. Connecting yourself to IRON put Polar in the position where it would eventually have to choose between its allies or place itself on the cross for both. Strangely enough, they did both - in reverse order- over the course of the war which was prompted thanks to your alliance's obstinance when surrendering. Due to the way events transpired, it would be silly for anyone looking at the way things went down to be too disappointed with Polar.

Edited April 7, 2010 by tamerlane

[Wad of Lint]

[quote name='tamerlane' date='07 April 2010 - 07:13 PM' timestamp='1270681997' post='2252226']
Ivan- I think people are more pissy over NSO's pre-war fence straddling that led to the draw and quartering of Frostbite between the two sides. You knew the political map as well as where it was going. Connecting yourself to IRON put Polar in the position where it would eventually have to choose between its allies or place itself on the cross for both. Strangely enough, they did both - in reverse order- over the course of the war which was prompted thanks to your alliance's obstinance when surrendering. Due to the way events transpired, it would be silly for anyone looking at the way things went down to be too disappointed with Polar.
[/quote]

NSO joined the war to defend Polar, not the other way around.

[The Crimson King]

[quote name='D34th' date='07 April 2010 - 07:02 PM' timestamp='1270681319' post='2252211']


If you doesn't know what happened and think that we doesn't tried to get peace for NSO I advice you to ask around the others sides of the history before talking about that, but of course you wont do that, it's easier criticize with a blind hate those who aren't in the same side of your alliance/allies.
[/quote]


You could have [b]tried[/b] to get a damn ticker tape parade thrown in Ivan's honor for all it matters.

This has nothing to do with what you tried to do and has everything to do with what you actually [b]did[/b]

No amount of revisionist history is going to change the simple fact that you decided to accept a white peace in a war you started while not first negotiating and ensuring a peace for the ally that came in to defend you.

The fact that you did it twice to the same ally in a matter of weeks...well...lets not even go there

[Stonewall Jaxon]

I'm too short-winded for this !@#$ right now

Edited April 7, 2010 by Stonewall Jaxon

[Krunk the Great]

[quote name='The Crimson King' date='07 April 2010 - 07:19 PM' timestamp='1270682368' post='2252237']
You could have [b]tried[/b] to get a damn ticker tape parade thrown in Ivan's honor for all it matters.

This has nothing to do with what you tried to do and has everything to do with what you actually [b]did[/b]

No amount of revisionist history is going to change the simple fact that you decided to accept a white peace in a war you started while not[size="4"][b] first negotiating and ensuring a peace for the ally[/b][/size] that came in to defend you.

The fact that you did it twice to the same ally in a matter of weeks...well...lets not even go there
[/quote]

Sounds like what we did to help our smaller friends in TCP get peace with FARK......Funny how that works. Friends > Infra much?

[Jrenster]

[quote name='tamerlane' date='07 April 2010 - 07:13 PM' timestamp='1270681997' post='2252226']
Ivan- I think people are more pissy over NSO's pre-war fence straddling that led to the draw and quartering of Frostbite between the two sides. You knew the political map as well as where it was going. Connecting yourself to IRON put Polar in the position where it would eventually have to choose between its allies or place itself on the cross for both. Strangely enough, they did both - in reverse order- over the course of the war which was prompted thanks to your alliance's obstinance when surrendering. Due to the way events transpired, it would be silly for anyone looking at the way things went down to be too disappointed with Polar.
[/quote]

Our negotiations with IRON for a treaty took six months. So, you are wrong.

As for our obstinance, we were fighting for our allies and for their peace. So, I apologize. We are that hard-headed about helping out our friends. Polar dug their own hole. We just happened to fell into that same hole. When they climbed up, they refused to offer us a hand. Everything else you say is merely an irrelevant conclusion.

EDIT: My 'y' key does not work. Oh wait. Yes it does.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Jrenster

[Gamemaster1]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='07 April 2010 - 07:01 PM' timestamp='1270681299' post='2252209']
Unfortunately the revisionists have taken root. Regardless of [i]anything[/i] that happened later in the war, every event was caused by Polar abandoning its "allies" on the field with no resolution and no support, diplomatic or otherwise.

To say anything else is a blatant lie. To rationalize and attempt to justify your later actions in which you were just trying to convince the world that you hadn't acted like complete douchebags is another one. To be pissy because the NSO got upset at having an ally abandon it when it went in against vastly superior (numerically) forces is absurd.
[/quote]
Gotta agree with this man. This war started over something Polar did, and yet Polar did not continue the fight nor help its allies, but instead had the very nerve to declare against those who thought they were fighting for Polar. The audacity of this is absolutely amazing. There is no honor in this. There was no honor in this war. It should have ended the minute Polar peaced with \m/, not several months and hundred thousand tech units later. To have anything else happen made this war incredibly stupid and pointless.

I'm sure, Death, you are glad NSO helped you out. Were you glad we helped you out? Glad enough to peace out and leave us with the very people we were supposed to be fighting for you? Glad you had the honor to try and stop a tech raid, yet not enough honor to even bother telling your allies you were signing peace, or help them, or even try and secure peace for them. No, you attack them. Polar, you deserted us and you stabbed us in the back. Don't try to defend your actions, admit them for what they truly are. Don't deny. If anything, apologize.

I'm glad for peace. Almost. There is still the issue with Gremlins, who have no real reason to continue this war other then that they hate us have the nerve to break their codex.

And I chuckled at your last sentence.

[Thrash]

[quote name='Gamemaster1' date='07 April 2010 - 07:31 PM' timestamp='1270683072' post='2252258']
Glad you had the honor to try and stop a tech raid, yet not enough honor to even bother telling your allies you were signing peace
[/quote]

And that about sums it up. Shame on you who are trying to justify those actions.

[Omas Nams]

[quote name='Gamemaster1' date='08 April 2010 - 12:31 AM' timestamp='1270683072' post='2252258']
There is still the issue with Gremlins, who have no real reason to continue this war other then that they hate us have the nerve to break their codex.
[/quote]

Just had to reply to this. We do not hate you, and never have, and we are not 'breaking' the Codex (not that it can be) and I do not see why people always feel the need to try and make it out that we are as it has no bearing what so ever and I don't really see why an external source should be commenting on something purely internal.

Anyways, as you were.

[Kzoppistan]

My [i]Scale of Outrage[/i] is tingling.

[Gamemaster1]

[quote name='Omas Nams' date='07 April 2010 - 07:40 PM' timestamp='1270683596' post='2252266']
Just had to reply to this. We do not hate you, and never have, and we are not 'breaking' the Codex (not that it can be) and I do not see why people always feel the need to try and make it out that we are as it has no bearing what so ever and I don't really see why an external source should be commenting on something purely internal.

Anyways, as you were.
[/quote]
I call it as I see it. You published the Codex for all to see.