More peace

[Farnsworth]

[quote name='Duncan King' date='27 February 2010 - 11:23 PM' timestamp='1267334796' post='2207651']
First, it's nice to see another ally out of this war. Looking at these terms, it appears that although they mistakenly think that they are funny, RIA, LOSS, and LOUD, are actually stand up guys. Sparta, MA, and Nemesis, on the other hand, appear to be requiring reparations from TOOL even though they piled on an already heavily engaged alliance.

Oh well.
[/quote]

You forgot VE is also on the list of alliances NOT requiring reps. ...something I am proud of, btw.

Also, for the record, I expect to see TheBigBad compliment us on this (not that I will place much stock in that ). It lends credibility to criticisms if you can also acknowledge the good.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='That-one-place' date='28 February 2010 - 12:59 AM' timestamp='1267340598' post='2207859']
Simply put, this is over. Terms are set and agreed upon. TOOL, as well everyone involved agreed to them being fair. Dochartaigh, I'm not sure you have any stake or say so in the matter. Although we feel your pain?? and enjoy being treated to such a fine alliance as IAA. Lets not take what was a good show of diplomacy on all parts and run it though the gutter.

edit: learn to spell!
[/quote]

my thoughts are my own and have always been my own. Ask Athens or any other ally i feel has messed up majorly. (hell ask TBB about the headache i gave Polaris and TPF during the TPF-NoV war) fact is, i have a certain set of ethics, and will stand up for my ethics regardless of who wrongs them. if they happen to be allies, to me that is worse since i tend to expect worse from either enemies or alliances my alliance is not allied to.

and while it was a good show, to state that TOOL finds these reps fair is most likely false but since they would have just continued to be beaten down had they said no, it is better than the alternative. but again, that does not mean that TOOL finds it fair, nor does it make these reps in any way right or acceptable to any alliance that has honor. like i said, i expected much better of Nemesis than this. much better.

[Xiphosis]

[quote]TOOL has been pretty good about this whole mess. Only more reason to respect their determination, no matter that I disagree with what is trying to be done to them.[/quote]

I'm not commenting on TOOL's character. They have been a consistent foe - by choice - since Karma and it's my firm belief that the reps should only be harsher each go around until people learn you simply can't attack us with impunity.

[quote]But I do find it interesting that you would presume to begin dictating surrender terms to TOOL before the next war is even in the planning stages.[/quote]

I've presumed nothing. TOOL has my assurance that if they strike me, or my allies, in the future they will pay a far steeper price than this. That's all.

[Scorn]

[quote name='Coursca' date='27 February 2010 - 11:45 PM' timestamp='1267339714' post='2207834']
I am interested to see how you justify MCXA et al getting total White Peace and TOOL (of all alliances -- one of the more decent alliances out there, in my view), which came in via Defense clauses much like MCXA et al, received reparations.

So, please enlighten me. Offer up some evidence or some justification for it. I'll be available through the usual channels for a little while. I promise I will be civil. And maybe even nice.

Also, Mia
[/quote]

You are assuming that all those that deserved to pay reparations have paid them. Also of consideration is that not all reparations are equally deserved. Most alliances do what they do during war to aid and assist their allies and push for a win. MHA was willing to forget about reparations to end that war quicker. Some people are very fond of white peace (or non-reparation surrenders) others prefer to see reparations. I like white peace in some scenarios, but Sparta at least is deserving of reparations in this scenario. The amount of reparations being light, moderate or harsh is purely subjective. This one looks to me like it falls in the moderate or light range.

[That-one-place]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='28 February 2010 - 07:04 AM' timestamp='1267340908' post='2207866']
So you basically gave them harsher reps then IRON got in Karma? For what?




I swear to Admin, if I hear one more person use the argument "Oh they agreed to them so it can't be that bad" I'm going to punch a !@#$@#$ baby.

You act as if they really had a say. It was accept terms or continue to get destroyed.
[/quote]


These were not demands, ask anyone in on the talks from TOOL. Everything was negotiable. Talks of cupcakes, pie and bacon were bountiful. I think new friendships were even made.

Mr. Damsky, the terms laid out could have easily been bounced back and fourth and for the most part were. Things were handled the most diplomatic way possible to end a war that had no end.

[Duncan King]

[quote name='Farnsworth' date='28 February 2010 - 01:08 AM' timestamp='1267341131' post='2207868']
You forgot VE is also on the list of alliances NOT requiring reps. ...something I am proud of, btw.
[/quote]
As you should be proud for. My apologies, I missed seeing that you did not accept reps. Much respect for that. o7

Edited February 28, 2010 by Duncan King

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Xiphosis' date='28 February 2010 - 01:09 AM' timestamp='1267341182' post='2207870']
I'm not commenting on TOOL's character. They have been a consistent foe - by choice - since Karma and it's my firm belief that the reps should only be harsher each go around until people learn you simply can't attack us with impunity.
[/quote]

wait are you !@#$@#$ serious? TOP/IRON/DAWN/TORN hit CnG. TOOL stood by an ally, something that used to be held in high regard. as for Karma- TOOL once again stood by an ally.

so this whole crock of !@#$%^&* you are spreading, just well is completely laughable. especially considering that GOD participated in the attack on TPF in Dec.

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Xiphosis' date='27 February 2010 - 11:09 PM' timestamp='1267341182' post='2207870']
It's my firm belief that the reps should only be harsher each go around until people learn you simply can't attack us with impunity.
[/quote]

They went in with a defensive clause. What would you have them do? Run into peace mode like cowards? I know you know nothing of honor but please...

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='28 February 2010 - 02:12 AM' timestamp='1267341378' post='2207878']
wait are you !@#$@#$ serious? TOP/IRON/DAWN/TORN hit CnG. TOOL stood by an ally, something that used to be held in high regard. as for Karma- TOOL once again stood by an ally.
[/quote]
Maybe they shouldn't stand by [i]those[/i] allies.

[Xiphosis]

[quote]especially considering that GOD participated in the attack on TPF in Dec. [/quote]

And I realized then, as TOOL should now, what the consequences would be if I failed.

[Jack Diorno]

Reps are too low and peace is for losers.

You alliances need to man up.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Yggdrazil' date='28 February 2010 - 01:58 AM' timestamp='1267340491' post='2207856']
Even after the vitriolic spewing from the leader of GOD, I will still be adamant that reparations are bad even if GOD were on the receiving end. Reparations was the most egregious wrong that the Hegemony did. I salute those who never ask for reparations.
[/quote]
No, that's not even close to the worst thing that has been done. Anyonne who thinks any amount of reps was the harshest part of the WUT->Q period is either kidding themselves or never spent any time living on the bottom during that time.

Reps, almost any amount of reps but especially the amounts that have been seen since Karma, are a !@#$@#$ joke compared to what someone in power can pull if they really want to and what people in power [I]did[/I] used to pull on a weekly basis. Every last one of the old major players that is on a "reps are evil" beat are !@#$@#$ pathetic, and I feel bad for the general membership of the alliances in the former dominant alliances because they have no idea what used to pass for tyranny in order to make a decent comparison.

Reps get pulled up on both sides for propaganda because thehare numbers and make for easy comparisons that can be framed however the speaker wants, but they will never compared, at all, with the level of !@#$%^&* that went on. Get the hell off your high horses and stop pretending you have any idea what you are talking about. You don't.

[That-one-place]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='28 February 2010 - 07:08 AM' timestamp='1267341132' post='2207869']
my thoughts are my own and have always been my own. Ask Athens or any other ally i feel has messed up majorly. (hell ask TBB about the headache i gave Polaris and TPF during the TPF-NoV war) fact is, i have a certain set of ethics, and will stand up for my ethics regardless of who wrongs them. if they happen to be allies, to me that is worse since i tend to expect worse from either enemies or alliances my alliance is not allied to.

and while it was a good show, to state that TOOL finds these reps fair is most likely false but since they would have just continued to be beaten down had they said no, it is better than the alternative. but again, that does not mean that TOOL finds it fair, nor does it make these reps in any way right or acceptable to any alliance that has honor. like i said, i expected much better of Nemesis than this. much better.
[/quote]


Ethics are an important feature to have on CN. Nemesis tossed the thought of reps around for days and after much thought, found that it was in the best interest of the alliance to ask for the minimal reps that we asked for. If there is no honor in looking out for a fellow Nemesis member or the alliance as whole I don't know what is. If it was not honorable to ask for reps now it would have been seen not honorable to let our alliance stagnate and fall off the cyberverse in the future.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' date='28 February 2010 - 01:14 AM' timestamp='1267341464' post='2207881']
Maybe they shouldn't stand by [i]those[/i] allies.
[/quote]

heh. are you serious? i know this may be some kind of alien concept for many in CN, but some alliances actually believe in honoring their treaties, or may just damn well actually like the alliances they are treatied to (unlike those who practice RealPolitik when it comes to treaties) and thus, will fight beside their friends/allies regardless of the odds.

i mean that would honestly be like telling MK they should not have stood by CnG when NPO/Q hit them. i doubt that MK would have been saying, "yeah totally, lets just drop these my idols cuz then we can stay out of this war".

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Yggdrazil' date='28 February 2010 - 01:58 AM' timestamp='1267340491' post='2207856']
Even after the vitriolic spewing from the leader of GOD, I will still be adamant that reparations are bad even if GOD were on the receiving end. Reparations was the most egregious wrong that the Hegemony did. I salute those who never ask for reparations.
[/quote]

No the most egregious actions of the Hegemony would be starting aggressive war for shady reasons, to which NPO bore the brunt of to the tune of way more than the slap on the wrist TOOL just got. (Hey wait, aggressive wars? That's another way of saying preemptive strike isn't it?)

NPO is STILL under terms, TOOL could get out in a week with a decent push. The sob squad in here is just amusing. TOOL isn't even required to disarm, AND they have time to rebuild while the war ends, plus there's no outside aid restrictions. If these reps (which could be cleared in a month while slacking, or in a week with a major effort) are so heinous to your eyes I would invite you to put your money where your mouth is, literally.

Your attempts at moral outrage lack authenticity, in the case of certain AA's it becomes downright hilarious.

Edited February 28, 2010 by TypoNinja

[KagetheSecond]

To those complaining about Sparta taking reps: They were hit pretty hard in this war. I can understand why they need money to rebuild. Spartan nations were quite fun to fight and talk to throughout.

I don't understand why MA is getting so much? I'm too lazy to read the rest of the thread. What's the justification?

[The Chosen One]

I must say it was a good fight TOOL, you showed much honor.

Just some shout outs now:

Mia, thanks for all the cookies! They are delicious! I might have to hire you to bake for me once again! And the story was great, best read in a while.

the dakotans, you put up one heck of a fight, the best fight I've had anyone put up in years, you were also one of the most fun and honorable adversaries I've ever fought. Thanks for some fun.

Good luck rebuilding to all.

Edited February 28, 2010 by The Chosen One

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='28 February 2010 - 02:17 AM' timestamp='1267341687' post='2207891']
heh. are you serious? i know this may be some kind of alien concept for many in CN, but some alliances actually believe in honoring their treaties, or may just damn well actually like the alliances they are treatied to (unlike those who practice RealPolitik when it comes to treaties) and thus, will fight beside their friends/allies regardless of the odds.

i mean that would honestly be like telling MK they should not have stood by CnG when NPO/Q hit them. i doubt that MK would have been saying, "yeah totally, lets just drop these my idols cuz then we can stay out of this war".
[/quote]
I don't necessarily mean "don't honor treaties" so much as "don't [u]have[/u] treaties that you won't like the consequences of honoring." If you ally with someone who starts fights, expect consequences if they bite off more than they can chew. And I mean generally speaking, beyond this recent war - there are a lot of good alliances all over that have treaties with idiots (or who are treatied to people who are treatied to idiots).

That's the downside of the ridiculous treaty chaining - you may end up losing to people who want to hurt you. If you're smart, you stay out of it; if you live by the sword though, you can die by it.

[Hiro Nakara]

We are such terible enemies, we talked trash to our opponents showed them no respect ohhhh wait, thats wrong.......

To: Hiro Nakara From: Caenwulf Date: 2/25/2010 12:22:08 AM

Subject: RE: Ridiculous

Message: Thanks, I've got nothing but compliments for you and your war efforts. I'm killing myself trying to minimize damage, but your organization is top rate. On top of that you are still polite, and seem like pretty nice guys.

[Yggdrazil]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='28 February 2010 - 01:15 AM' timestamp='1267341567' post='2207887']
No, that's not even close to the worst thing that has been done. Anyonne who thinks any amount of reps was the harshest part of the WUT->Q period is either kidding themselves or never spent any time living on the bottom during that time.

Reps, almost any amount of reps but especially the amounts that have been seen since Karma, are a !@#$@#$ joke compared to what someone in power can pull if they really want to and what people in power [I]did[/I] used to pull on a weekly basis. Every last one of the old major players that is on a "reps are evil" beat are !@#$@#$ pathetic, and I feel bad for the general membership of the alliances in the former dominant alliances because they have no idea what used to pass for tyranny in order to make a decent comparison.

Reps get pulled up on both sides for propaganda because thehare numbers and make for easy comparisons that can be framed however the speaker wants, but they will never compared, at all, with the level of !@#$%^&* that went on. Get the hell off your high horses and stop pretending you have any idea what you are talking about. You don't.
[/quote]

I'm glad there was such specificity in your post so I could respond in a logical manner.
Wait...?

Edited February 28, 2010 by Yggdrazil

[Xiphosis]

[quote]heh. are you serious?[/quote]

One of the major arguments within our side of Karma in favor of giving white peace was that it'd give those who got it a clean slate to start from. That failed. They all stayed allied to the same people, and they all come out of the wood work whenever a chance at vengeance is presented.

Call me evil if you'd like, but I fully intend on hanging people from the gates if they continue. You guys have been warned well in advance.

[JackSkellington]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='28 February 2010 - 02:15 AM' timestamp='1267341567' post='2207887']
No, that's not even close to the worst thing that has been done. Anyonne who thinks any amount of reps was the harshest part of the WUT->Q period is either kidding themselves or never spent any time living on the bottom during that time.

Reps, almost any amount of reps but especially the amounts that have been seen since Karma, are a !@#$@#$ joke compared to what someone in power can pull if they really want to and what people in power [I]did[/I] used to pull on a weekly basis. Every last one of the old major players that is on a "reps are evil" beat are !@#$@#$ pathetic, and I feel bad for the general membership of the alliances in the former dominant alliances because they have no idea what used to pass for tyranny in order to make a decent comparison.

Reps get pulled up on both sides for propaganda because thehare numbers and make for easy comparisons that can be framed however the speaker wants, but they will never compared, at all, with the level of !@#$%^&* that went on. Get the hell off your high horses and stop pretending you have any idea what you are talking about. You don't.
[/quote]

I'll quote this and say I was thinking the same thing so I might look smart. But seriously, well put.

[mhawk]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='27 February 2010 - 11:15 PM' timestamp='1267341567' post='2207887']
No, that's not even close to the worst thing that has been done. Anyonne who thinks any amount of reps was the harshest part of the WUT->Q period is either kidding themselves or never spent any time living on the bottom during that time.

Reps, almost any amount of reps but especially the amounts that have been seen since Karma, are a !@#$@#$ joke compared to what someone in power can pull if they really want to and what people in power [I]did[/I] used to pull on a weekly basis. Every last one of the old major players that is on a "reps are evil" beat are !@#$@#$ pathetic, and I feel bad for the general membership of the alliances in the former dominant alliances because they have no idea what used to pass for tyranny in order to make a decent comparison.

Reps get pulled up on both sides for propaganda because thehare numbers and make for easy comparisons that can be framed however the speaker wants, but they will never compared, at all, with the level of !@#$%^&* that went on. Get the hell off your high horses and stop pretending you have any idea what you are talking about. You don't.
[/quote]
I'm sure there was a ton of oppression on RIA via their MDoAP with NPO during the time of "tyranny".

[Trinite]

[quote name='Duncan King' date='28 February 2010 - 12:23 AM' timestamp='1267334796' post='2207651']
First, it's nice to see another ally out of this war. Looking at these terms, it appears that although they mistakenly think that they are funny, RIA, LOSS, and LOUD, are actually stand up guys. Sparta, MA, and Nemesis, on the other hand, appear to be requiring reparations from TOOL even though they piled on an already heavily engaged alliance.

Oh well.
[/quote]
We really need to stop attacking TOOL when they are already engaged with... wait a sec. o_O

[mhawk]

[quote name='Xiphosis' date='27 February 2010 - 11:24 PM' timestamp='1267342101' post='2207908']
One of the major arguments within our side of Karma in favor of giving white peace was that it'd give those who got it a clean slate to start from. That failed. They all stayed allied to the same people, and they all come out of the wood work whenever a chance at vengeance is presented.

Call me evil if you'd like, but I fully intend on hanging people from the gates if they continue. You guys have been warned well in advance.
[/quote]
Maybe if you gave white peace around to everyone, but no you demanded more reps than all other wars combined.