Owned-You Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Yes, because I've spent my entire CN career in Valhalla secretly running the entire Hegemony even so far as pulling Ivan and Tyga's strings back in '06.The argument that my AA makes my point invalid is tired and rather weak. Nope, but you undoubtedly took part in it did you not? I did at various times, but I don't try and deny that fact nor decry other alliances for doing what I may have been associated too in the past. You have done that, and I called you out on it. And whilst that argument is indeed a weak one, you failed to respond to the larger more relevant portion of it. That counter-argument; or lack thereof is quite tiresome as well Lord Levistus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterof9puppets Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Of course he had lots of nukes left when his nation ended; we couldn't get any spy slots. Taken in sum the blocked spy slots, coordination with Heracles to keep our nations out, no efforts to stagger, and (at least in appearance) only token fighting made it appear to us that you were actively helping Heracles in his rogueing. It is indeed possible that this is incorrect, but I hope you see how it looks from our angle, especially since your alliance has a long grudge against mine. I don't know how negotiations went, but communication channels as far as I've seen have been poor and I'm sorry that this is the venue in which they're improving. So, taking in fact that you cannot blame the spy slots on Kronos, our explanation for not staggering Heracles- and the staggering would have been unnecessary, and our explanation about Heracles rebuying infrastructure adds up.........? Eh? I don't think there's any ambiguity in the logs he posted. There is sufficient context to understand the situation. Tyga says "the other alternative" indicating that this was not his first choice of resolutions. He then says that the alternative in question is for Kronos to reimburse him for the damage he took from the rogues. That's all Mo9P seemed to be trying to say, and that's all the logs say. This. It was also I was given, as at the time it was given it was deemed all that was necessary for my eyes to read. If STA has proof that the logs are highly out of context, feel free to post it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iherud Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Haha, I know these are out of context, but does anyone else see Tyga rubbing his hands together eagerly when they read that last line? And I mean that as a joke, before someone gets mad at me. :mrburns: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Levistus Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Nope, but you undoubtedly took part in it did you not? I did at various times, but I don't try and deny that fact nor decry other alliances for doing what I may have been associated too in the past. You have done that, and I called you out on it. And whilst that argument is indeed a weak one, you failed to respond to the larger more relevant portion of it. That counter-argument; or lack thereof is quite tiresome as well Lord Levistus. I've never said that the actions of my Alliance were always above board. However, neither do I forget that i was also the Victim of some of those actions in my early days. I wasn't intending to come across as judgmental, I was looking at a precedent being set under the new rules of CN post Karma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzelger Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 So, taking in fact that you cannot blame the spy slots on Kronos, our explanation for not staggering Heracles- and the staggering would have been unnecessary, and our explanation about Heracles rebuying infrastructure adds up.........? Things looked bad from our point of view, we took our issues to discussion, we were offered a resolution that was satisfactory to us, and we took it (I don't possess details of the negotiations). I didn't know that you took serious issue with that until well after I thought an agreement had been reached (and some payment had already been made), and the fallout seems to have overran the conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I've never said that the actions of my Alliance were always above board. However, neither do I forget that i was also the Victim of some of those actions in my early days.I wasn't intending to come across as judgmental, I was looking at a precedent being set under the new rules of CN post Karma. It looks to me like you're just pissing about aimlessly. You're not contributing anything worthwhile here as your arguments don't actually address the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I agree with you on the notion that this war would be vicious for all parties involved and TOP did do the correct thing in trying to bail out there allies in Kronos. However, as you said yourself TOP already attempted to resolve this issue diplomatically on the behalf of Kronos and Kronos went ahead and shot that down for no real reason aside from pride and ignorance. Would TOP really want to fight for an alliance that seems to be begging for a conflict in this affair? For seemingly immature reasons at that...I've seen alliances distance themselves for less reasons; and I know TOP isn't an alliance to run from fights. But in this instance, I wouldn't hold it against them to part ways with an alliance as pigheaded as Kronos have acted thus far in this affair. So if TOP had stepped in and offered to act as a negotiator and Kronos didn't feel it necessary but let them proceed anyway, and TOP came back with what they concerned to be a "good settlement" and Kronos wasn't there and didn't approve it, then that makes them "pigheaded"? I'm sorry, but no, it doesn't. It has less to do with the fact that is was rouge actions. And more due to the fact that it was multiple rouges and seemingly a concerted effort from Kronos to inflict damage on Tyga. Furthermore, the demeanor Kronos have displayed in resolving this issue is less then something to be admired. There have been wars for less carried out by your own alliance, so don't attempt to pass that judgement on myself nor STA. It doesn't matter who the target was within STA, save that the rogues went after the leader of the alliance, something that rogues do routinely. As for Kronos' "demeanor" see above. Though honestly, I don't think that Kronos considers your personal opinion (passing judgment on them) on this matter to be something that will make or break them as an alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Levistus Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 It looks to me like you're just pissing about aimlessly. You're not contributing anything worthwhile here as your arguments don't actually address the situation. Perhaps, or perhaps I'm responding to two different people and you're having trouble keeping track. If i were Pez i would make a snide remark about your lack of reading comprehension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threefingeredguy Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 It looks to me like you're just pissing about aimlessly. You're not contributing anything worthwhile here as your arguments don't actually address the situation. And...? People aren't allowed to post if they want to? You don't HAVE to respond to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I presume you are equally annoyed with Gremlins for using spy slots on such things as "Destroy Cruise Missiles?" So we're gonna have to bail out Gre for 600 tech as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 So we're gonna have to bail out Gre for 600 tech as well? Yeah, you can feel free to send it to me. I have an FAC so if you want to send it as 18M and save some slots go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrux Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 im going to have to get the crystal ball out to see the future in all of this..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernkastel Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) This was the most brilliant political move I've seen in many a months. This is pretty pathetic. TOP is teh new ebil Hegemony. Ohsnose. Wutevr will we do's? Just war already. It's not that hard to see as a likely outcome. Edited November 23, 2009 by Beatrice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 im going to have to get the crystal ball out to see the future in all of this..... The future will be one of peace and prosperity, as those currently involved in this verbal spat will sit down and discuss their differences and come to a logical conclusion! TOP had a logical conclusion all set and ready to go, it's a shame that people would not take them seriously. Peace will be the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owned-You Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 So if TOP had stepped in and offered to act as a negotiator and Kronos didn't feel it necessary but let them proceed anyway, and TOP came back with what they concerned to be a "good settlement" and Kronos wasn't there and didn't approve it, then that makes them "pigheaded"? I'm sorry, but no, it doesn't.It doesn't matter who the target was within STA, save that the rogues went after the leader of the alliance, something that rogues do routinely. As for Kronos' "demeanor" see above. Though honestly, I don't think that Kronos considers your personal opinion (passing judgment on them) on this matter to be something that will make or break them as an alliance. TOP did proceed to step up on the behalf of Kronos, as I presume you know. They attempted to end this situation on the behalf of Kronos. As you noted, Kronos did not want TOP to pay 600 tech to end the situation. Even though they would not be the ones paying for it. I'm Sorry ChairmanHal, but your a smart fellow; you of all people know that's indeed pigheaded. Hence it would be reasonable to believe that Kronos may not want a diplomatic solution to this affair for whatever reason. And if that is the case they are more then pigheaded if not abundantly stubborn and ignorant. I agree, it's a moot point that Tyga was the target; it's not a real concern of mine that he was the target. Had it been any other member of STA, the same responses would be taking place. That being said, your saying based on your reasonable observation that Kronos is going to disregard the opinion of a well respected person of standing such as myself in a political relevant alliance such as Nueva Vida tied to this situation? I doubt that would be the case, considering I know various well respected members of Kronos and consider some of them my best of friends. Furthermore, you still haven't addressed the relevant portions of my arguments though you simply posed a hypothetical to make your position more favorable and discredit my points. When you have an objective counter-argument to make to mind I'll respond; until then I'll be waiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrux Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 The future will be one of peace and prosperity, as those currently involved in this verbal spat will sit down and discuss their differences and come to a logical conclusion! TOP had a logical conclusion all set and ready to go, it's a shame that people would not take them seriously.Peace will be the answer. you clearly dont have the same crystal ball as me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuletide Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) According to some scholars and scientists, platypusses do have balls--crystal ones. Gaze into them to observe the future. Edited November 23, 2009 by ThePainkiller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumpy Jung Il Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Wow. Just wow. Great move Joe, really made a top notch post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrux Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 The future will be one of peace and prosperity, as those currently involved in this verbal spat will sit down and discuss their differences and come to a logical conclusion! TOP had a logical conclusion all set and ready to go, it's a shame that people would not take them seriously.Peace will be the answer. see completely different crystal balls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iherud Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) see completely different crystal balls I guess that's the tiger fur rug BobJanova was talking about Edited November 23, 2009 by Iherud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick1 Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 A massive beating? I think someone needs to look again. An aggressive war on Kronos would not end well for anyone. TOP did the right thing by avoiding an unnecessary war, but they would certainly have won it had it come to that. I give my condolence to TOP and their ability to play political chess. Once again you guys are by far the best at it, best of luck to all parties involved. Tygaland! and his six hundred technology! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 see completely different crystal balls That is completely inappropriate. I'm really disappointed to see it coming from an alliance I hold a great deal of respect for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrux Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) That is completely inappropriate. I'm really disappointed to see it coming from an alliance I hold a great deal of respect for. i find it inappropriate and dissapointing you expect reps from rogues.. If TOP wouldnt have stepped in, what would you have done? Edited November 23, 2009 by acrux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Just make one that shows the Tin Man and says "Joe Stupid: Still looking for that brain are we?" and all will be well. I thought I'd contribute to this brilliant thread conversation for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iherud Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 That is completely inappropriate. I'm really disappointed to see it coming from an alliance I hold a great deal of respect for. If it matters, we tried to discourage him from doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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