Bob Janova Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Yeah, they learnt something, but the something wasn't 'attacking 40 man alliances is wrong' but 'if we try to push our raid-anyone ethic we'll die, so we won't do it just not'. Fortunately, the rest of C&G is much classier and so there's no way Athens will get support for such an action in the forseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 until they have more allies that is. sorry, "We do not have the strength or the support to gain acceptance for our worldview"..... i am just waiting for when Athens feels they do have the strength and the support... That is a misinterpretation on your part. That line is simply a recognition that they are not their opinion is not that of the majority. Your worry that they'll suddenly up and start tearing into little alliances at the drop of a hat given enough strength is silly--I somehow doubt that Londo wants to deal with the diplomatic firestorm of the past few days again and, even if he does, there isn't enough strength in the world to allow the kind of wild warring you seem to fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFish Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 the last sentence kinda proves that they did not commit themselves to anything. that last sentence makes it seem that once they get the strength and allies, they will go about doing as they wish once more. until that time, sure they won't but once they feel they are on top of the world, they will do this and most likely more. So, what is it you would like to do them, then? Change what they believe due to external pressure? Would that come across to you as more sincere if Londo had said "We've now decided that what we did two days ago is completely wrong because someone pointed their nukes at us"? They're backing down under massive public disapproval, not because of an epiphany. I for one applaud their honesty, it's something that's severely lacking these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 That is a misinterpretation on your part. That line is simply a recognition that they are not their opinion is not that of the majority. Your worry that they'll suddenly up and start tearing into little alliances at the drop of a hat given enough strength is silly--I somehow doubt that Londo wants to deal with the diplomatic firestorm of the past few days again and, even if he does, there isn't enough strength in the world to allow the kind of wild warring you seem to fear. ask Q or Inititiative...... So, what is it you would like to do them, then? Change what they believe due to external pressure? Would that come across to you as more sincere if Londo had said "We've now decided that what we did two days ago is completely wrong because someone pointed their nukes at us"? They're backing down under massive public disapproval, not because of an epiphany. I for one applaud their honesty, it's something that's severely lacking these days. actually, they are not being honest. i see Londo making remarks just like that. I am humbled. I am ashamed that my actions have brought things to this pass. We will do whatever is needed to make things right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 The Moralist critics fear your freedom Athens, deny them the pleasure of your demise. Stay strong, sympathy rides high with you even in the darkest corners of Planet Bob. Pay them no mind, they are not Athenians nor friends. You owe nothing to them, never forget that. Why must we feel it neccisary to prove yourself moral in the eyes of the mobs that rule Bob these days. Run with your freedom Athens, run to the frontlines of the fight against the fakeness of Morality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 ask Q or Inititiative...... You mean the two historic blocs that were destroyed in massive, cataclysmic wars for attempting to do what you fear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 You mean the two historic blocs that were destroyed in massive, cataclysmic wars for attempting to do what you fear? yeah but for a long while both were able to do as they please due to sufficient strength to make the world tremble. so yes, there most assuredly is more than sufficient strength and support to be found in the world of CN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Stupid Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Everyone dies. Not everyone really lives. Braveheart references?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Or you know, you could just not tech raid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkerNinja Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I for one applaud their honesty, it's something that's severely lacking these days. Interesting that valuing one's infrastructure over their deeply held convictions is suddenly honest and laudable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 so if Athens gets "raided" by some other alliance, Athens and their allies will not go "zomg, alliance x has declared war on Athens" and all of you will simply treat it as the "raid" that it is?i bet you won't and i bet that Athens wouldn't. i bet Athens and CnG would be up in arms decrying the ebil alliance x for declaring war on Athens. sorry but until you can honestly say that MK, Athens, nor CnG would do that, then it is obvious that Athens is literally wrong since Athens, MK, and CnG would see any alliance that did it to Athens as being wrong. Why yes, we would defend our ally whom we have a treaty with if they got attacked. Just as everyone is allowed to. Interesting that valuing one's infrastructure over their deeply held convictions is suddenly honest and laudable. I'm fairly certain whoever attacked Athens for this mess would've ended up with a much bloodier nose than Athens would take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Beck Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Interesting that valuing one's infrastructure over their deeply held convictions is suddenly honest and laudable. This comment made me laugh a bit. Who on Bob would give infra the same value as such convictions that war should be fun and not used to deny others sovereignty or existence? We made a poor attempt to create a new standard where fun > infra and when KoN had no treaty it was presumed OK to raid. Basically we didn't see any difference in a small alliance or a big alliance (small being 15 members and big being 39). No treaties equals they can be raided. A significant amount of raids go on all the time, some with probably lower standards than we have (ie. using something other than ground attacks). So when it comes to raiding, yes we do it but not for the reasons so many claim. It is not for material gain. It is for the sport. What we did not realize before today was that we present a threat to the general feeling of security on Bob with our disregard for infra when we raid on such a large scale. We are being violated as the global community forces us to seize our raiding. We accept this limit, we were there to test it. The world had forgotten that limit. I do not want to justify our actions but I wish that people would not judge us for what we do but how we do it. Somebody will undoubtedly use my comment to criticise us further but so be it. We have learned our lesson and that's it. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janax Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'm fairly certain whoever attacked Athens for this mess would've ended up with a much bloodier nose than Athens would take. I laughed. Thank you for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I laughed. Thank you for that Pointing out the faults in TOP's arguments are always fun, I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'm fairly certain whoever attacked Athens for this mess would've ended up with a much bloodier nose than Athens would take. And I'm fairly certain you're wrong. Oh look, now I'm pointing out the faults in your argument!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earogema Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I laughed. Thank you for that Pointing out the faults in TOP's arguments are always fun, I agree. Just look at those sabers rattling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strahd Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) This comment made me laugh a bit. Who on Bob would give infra the same value as such convictions that war should be fun and not used to deny others sovereignty or existence? We made a poor attempt to create a new standard where fun > infra and when KoN had no treaty it was presumed OK to raid. Basically we didn't see any difference in a small alliance or a big alliance (small being 15 members and big being 39). No treaties equals they can be raided. A significant amount of raids go on all the time, some with probably lower standards than we have (ie. using something other than ground attacks). So when it comes to raiding, yes we do it but not for the reasons so many claim. It is not for material gain. It is for the sport. What we did not realize before today was that we present a threat to the general feeling of security on Bob with our disregard for infra when we raid on such a large scale. We are being violated as the global community forces us to seize our raiding. We accept this limit, we were there to test it. The world had forgotten that limit. I do not want to justify our actions but I wish that people would not judge us for what we do but how we do it. Somebody will undoubtedly use my comment to criticise us further but so be it. We have learned our lesson and that's it. Sorry. So, you are sorry because you got caught. Got it. Edited November 16, 2009 by Strahd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 And I'm fairly certain you're wrong. Oh look, now I'm pointing out the faults in your argument!!! Except I'm right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Beck Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 So, you are sorry because you got caught. Got it. I have nothing to hide. Any raids i participate in are public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strahd Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) I have nothing to hide. Any raids i participate in are public. Then, why are you sorry, and what lesson have you learned? Edited November 16, 2009 by Strahd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Beck Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 So, why are you sorry, and what lesson have you learned? That should be obvious from the post i made earlier. Sorry for forgetting that there is a limit to the size of an alliance you can raid (according to the social standards of the global community), a lesson we have now learned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackSkellington Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 So you curb stomped Ni! for fun...Or maybe I'm reading that the wrong way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agafaba Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 This comment made me laugh a bit. Who on Bob would give infra the same value as such convictions that war should be fun and not used to deny others sovereignty or existence? We made a poor attempt to create a new standard where fun > infra and when KoN had no treaty it was presumed OK to raid. Basically we didn't see any difference in a small alliance or a big alliance (small being 15 members and big being 39). No treaties equals they can be raided. A significant amount of raids go on all the time, some with probably lower standards than we have (ie. using something other than ground attacks). So when it comes to raiding, yes we do it but not for the reasons so many claim. It is not for material gain. It is for the sport. What we did not realize before today was that we present a threat to the general feeling of security on Bob with our disregard for infra when we raid on such a large scale. We are being violated as the global community forces us to seize our raiding. We accept this limit, we were there to test it. The world had forgotten that limit. I do not want to justify our actions but I wish that people would not judge us for what we do but how we do it. Somebody will undoubtedly use my comment to criticise us further but so be it. We have learned our lesson and that's it. Sorry. I would say thats a respectable position should your alliance not mind some sport of their own... or your allies for that matter. It just seems odd that you have created a sport that only you are allowed to participate in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strahd Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) Max, I think you missed a bit of the point of the why the whole incident escalated, and why people were upset about it. The truth is, people don't like bullies, and Athens was acting like a bully. Hopefully, you won't do that anymore. Edited November 16, 2009 by Strahd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Beck Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I would say thats a respectable position should your alliance not mind some sport of their own... or your allies for that matter. It just seems odd that you have created a sport that only you are allowed to participate in. If you find a raid you're free to raid in my opinion. However we would encourage you to engage in only two ground attacks followed by an offer of peace and to have respect for who you raid. I won't deny you that. However others would not like it if you find a large alliance (in this case something above 15-30 members or who have a treaty) and you would apparently, like us, have to conform with the social norms that exist, just like we have. We do not in any way claim that we are the only ones with a right to raid. However even now we are preparing to seize all raids. So you curb stomped Ni! for fun...Or maybe I'm reading that the wrong way. We are bigger but we sent peace after the raid. The intention was not to curb stomp. We did not intend to destroy or annihilate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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