F15pilotX Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 No, the idea is that the bad things NPO did are much worse than the the 'crimes' committed by most other alliances. Simple concepts.Ah, the old "they did _____, so it's okay for us to do __________" argument. Flawless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrotskysRevenge Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 As pointed out by GantanX, these raids blatantly violate the Athens Charter on raiding: Article VII – Raiding RulesAthens permits and approves of the practice of tech/land/money raiding within a reasonable framework of rules. Unaligned targets may be raided by any member of Athens. Raid targets with any alliance affiliation must be approved directly by the Archon eponymos, Archon basileus, or Polemarch. While team raids (2 or more Athens members attacking the same target) are permitted on the unaligned, this practice is strictly forbidden for aligned targets. Raiding aligned targets of below 10,000 NS is forbidden, as is raiding aligned targets in an alliance affiliation which has greater than 10 members, or a protectorate, or is an "alliance applicant" affiliation. Cruise missiles, airstrikes, nuclear attacks, and naval attacks are NOT to be used unless your target uses them first. Peace offers are to be sent immediately following two ground attacks. If a nation has not become active by the update, it is acceptable to make two more attacks, providing that a new peace offer is sent thereafter. Nations which nuke you while you are raiding them are not considered rogue, and will not be pursued beyond the duration of the war or made targets for sanctions because of their choice to nuke. Any violation of these rules will be dealt with as seen fit by the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookavich Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Could we all just enjoy this drama without having to bring the NPO into it? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Clearly.I mean Karma alliances are just EZI'ing people left and right, it's terrible! To state that just because you do not partake of some of what they did, means that you can imitate them in some aspects but remain blameless is not particularly that great of an argument. This has got to be the weakest argument i have seen coming from those who have fought NPO and/or the Hegemony during the Karma war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 So the idea here is that the NPO bears blame for all the woes in history, and those who aren't the NPO are not held accountable for their actions? Do I have this right?This seems to be the justification for unprovoked aggression on an alliance. It's a mother$%&@ing raid, folks. Stop wetting yourself and getting indignant because people aren't lashing Athens and FoB and sticking swords through their backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15pilotX Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 It's a mother$%&@ing raid, folks. Stop wetting yourself and getting indignant because people aren't lashing Athens and FoB and sticking swords through their backs.Oh please. If the situations were reversed, people would be up in arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmightyGrub Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 It's a mother$%&@ing raid, folks. Stop wetting yourself and getting indignant because people aren't lashing Athens and FoB and sticking swords through their backs. So if I raid the alliance made of recycled paper you will be fine with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loannes Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Oh please. If the situations were reversed, people would be up in arms. Another what if. Make your arguments have to do with the actual situation, not "Oh, if the Knights were raiding Athens, it'd be worse." And on that subject, no it wouldn't. The KofN would probably cease to exist without a long 'look at me' thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 So the idea here is that the NPO bears blame for all the woes in history, and those who aren't the NPO are not held accountable for their actions? Do I have this right?This seems to be the justification for unprovoked aggression on an alliance. No it's calling out the bogus cries of "you are just as bad as us!" coming from your comrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgoods45 Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 well, i am a fan of tech raiding my self but isn't this violated Athens charter ? Our charter was recently changed to the following: Article VThe Use of Force Raiding Rules Athens permits and approves of the practice of tech/land/money raiding within a reasonable framework of rules. Specific raid rules may change from time to time, and will be decided by the government and laid out in a separate document. On Nuclear Weapons Athens believes that the possession of nuclear weapons is vital to the defense and existence of the alliance. All member nations are highly encouraged to acquire nuclear weapons as soon as their economies are capable of supporting them. Direct authorization from the Archon eponymos is required to authorize their first-strike use. No authorization is required to use nuclear weapons on a target that has attacked you with them. Our Guidelines are as follows: 1) All raids consist of 2 ground attacks followed by a peace offer. It is acceptable to do 2 more ground attacks after update and reoffer peace if your offer has not been accepted.2) Unless you are attacked by your raid with CMs, Aircraft, Destructive Spy Ops, or Navy, ground attacks and nondestructive spy ops are the only forms of attack you are permitted. If your target uses any one of these on you, you are permitted to respond with all weapons and forms of attack except for nukes. 3) You are not permitted to nuke your target unless your target nukes you first. 4) Be respectful. No threatening messages. No intimidation. You are not there to crush your raid, you are just there to have a little fun and sharpen your war skills. Treat your raid with respect. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) Any nation on alliance affiliation: ' none ' may be raided at any time without approval. 2) To raid any nation on any alliance affiliation, you must secure approval from the Strategos (Kazeki) or the Archon eponymos (Londo, Max). We didn't feel the need to inform any of you about it because frankly, it's none of your concern. This raid is legal as per our charter and it has been followed to the letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homura Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Stuff like this never happened back then. Check your history. \m/ specifically had a five-man limit on "alliance" raids. Athens has a ten nation limit. What's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Levistus Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) Grub, i'm pretty sure he's saying that it would be cool if Polar wanted to raid SLCB en masse, it's only a raid after all. edit: tired Levi types too slow. Edited November 14, 2009 by Lord Levistus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15pilotX Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 No it's calling out the bogus cries of "you are just as bad as us!" coming from your comrades.Ah, so "you did xx so it's okay if we do xx" isn't just as bad? All you are doing is upping the emotion in the statement a bit.Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diomede Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 To state that just because you do not partake of some of what they did, means that you can imitate them in some aspects but remain blameless is not particularly that great of an argument. This has got to be the weakest argument i have seen coming from those who have fought NPO and/or the Hegemony during the Karma war. I tend to agree. Also, woah. One of the most obnoxious raids this side of the UjP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Cousteau Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 So if I raid the alliance made of recycled paper you will be fine with that? No one seems to actually care about KofN, but would rather use them as a prop in a worthless argument. I hate to say it, but if you really are that upset about this raid then do something about it just like people would do something if you raided SLCB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 So if I raid the alliance made of recycled paper you will be fine with that? I'd embrace it. Our allies, on the other hand, may take issue with it. Oh please. If the situations were reversed, people would be up in arms. Or they'd be absolutely fine with it because it's a raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Jaym Il Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 I don't really care too much for the "They're bigger, and the other guy doesn't have any treaties" argument. If for arguments sake, Athens/FoB/Anyone else involved were rather large sanctioned alliances. Would this be brushed off like this if they mass raided GPA or TDO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Diorno Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) As pointed out by GantanX, these raids blatantly violate the Athens Charter on raiding: Thats an outdated version of our charter, we updated raiding rules a few weeks ago. EDIT: jgoods already pointed this out Edited November 14, 2009 by Jack Diorno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 So the idea here is that the NPO bears blame for all the woes in history, and those who aren't the NPO are not held accountable for their actions? Do I have this right?This seems to be the justification for unprovoked aggression on an alliance. What are you talking about? I don't see how anyone is saying its less wrong when people other then you do ridiculous things, I see the exact opposite. Sorry, thread isn't about NPO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwoody Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Summary: 1) Athens raids some alliance with like idk, a billion members or something. 2) Everyone in the world ever hates them with the fire of a trillion suns. 3) Except that everyone else is like "raiding is cool Athens is cool everyone is uncool" 4) Everyone starts yelling with everyone else. 5) Nothing is going to happen so I sleep now goodnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted November 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 I'd embrace it. Our allies, on the other hand, may take issue with it. Your treaties wouldn't activate. It's just a tech raid, not a war, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15pilotX Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) No one seems to actually care about KofN, but would rather use them as a prop in a worthless argument.I hate to say it, but if you really are that upset about this raid then do something about it just like people would do something if you raided SLCB. Wait what? Is this not the exact thing Karma/former-Karma has been pegging NPO with for the last what, almost year now? Come on, don't be THAT blatant. edit - added "former-Karma" Edited November 14, 2009 by F15pilotX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Ah, the old "they did _____, so it's okay for us to do __________" argument. Flawless. TrotskysRevenge brought the equivocation into the argument, not us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Just throwing this out there, if this leads to bigger trouble and MK has to defend Athens over this stupid move, Ronin will not be activating the oA clause of our treaty with MK. I can handle raiding. But this is ridiculous, it is almost like they are asking to start trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernardo Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 It's not a war because we only attack once guys come on don't judge athens like that it's only a raid not a war. Everyone, we must take pity on Athens. There must be a punctuation and capitalization shortage in the alliance, as seen by Londo's post. They clearly need to tech raid to purchase "A"'s, as well as "," and ";". In the interest of peace in the Aqua sphere here are a few "A"'s to help you out, Londo, during your period of need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts