Avalon Lodges a Formal Complaint

[thaone]

To everyone "hailing" the Stickmen, one must wonder how you all would be reacting had the roles been reversed and Valhalla pulled a stunt like this and messaged every member of the Stickmen trying to get it to come off as an official alliance message.

I expect Stickmen would have demanded an handwritten apology for each member who received such a message.

[Molleh]

To everyone "hailing" the Stickmen, one must wonder how you all would be reacting had the roles been reversed and Valhalla pulled a stunt like this and messaged every member of the Stickmen trying to get it to come off as an official alliance message.

Somewhere out there is a golden rule that once existed but seems to have long been forgotten.

The problem is that there is nothing within that spam message that identifies which alliances the senator is aligned to, and as such its possible that the voters may be voting for your senator when they would rather vote for one that their own alliance has approved. The fact that this information is missing is why people can misconstrue this as an impersonation of a purple unity member asking for the vote.

Other than that I dont see a real problem here, and nations should have the common sense to check whose alliance thatthe author of the message belongs to anyway, particularly if they are unfamilar with the sender.

This guy got to it before I did. If I got a message I'd spend about .5 seconds clicking on the name of the sender. Then maybe.. 1 second to look at nation's AA? In fact that's about 10 times easier than the vote process itself!

[Drool]

The problem is that there is nothing within that spam message that identifies which alliances the senator is aligned to, and as such its possible that the voters may be voting for your senator when they would rather vote for one that their own alliance has approved. The fact that this information is missing is why people can misconstrue this as an impersonation of a purple unity member asking for the vote.

You made that sound like someone would prefer other senators over the stickmen's candidate, and that can't be right, can it?

Edited October 7, 2009 by Drool

[Chasmic Descent]

You made that sound like someone would prefer other senators over the stickmen's candidate, and that can't be right, can it?

Well, my view is that ppl perfer not to vote who they think may be better for the job no matter what alliance they belong to, but vote for what will serve their own alliances interest. I dont think personal preference or who would do the job better normally comes into voting.

[General Ozujsko]

So they sent out Senate voting messages to (almost) everyone on Purple and your alliance got included? It's not that big of a deal.

I think this should be treated in the same way when Grey Council grumbles about recruitment messages. You've opted to isolate yourself in a very specific way, in which the search functions of the game are not geared to your specific choice...accept the consequences.

If you don't drink, you can't get pissed at the bartender for asking if you want a beer.

Edited October 7, 2009 by General Ozujsko

[astronaut jones]

How about working out an issue privately, before making a big stink over it.

I know I certainly wouldn't have gone public without at least 2 attempts to get a workable solution via private channels. It's the polite thing to do.

If my results weren't satisfactory, then game on.

I much rather prefer an open and honest PB, than I do a secretive, back channels only PB. I would much rather see people airing out their grievances in public than for everyone to be left in the dark.

[Heracles the Great]

So they sent out Senate voting messages to (almost) everyone on Purple and your alliance got included? It's not that big of a deal.

I think this should be treated in the same way when Grey Council grumbles about recruitment messages. You've opted to isolate yourself in a very specific way...accept the consequences.

If you don't drink, you can't get pissed at the bartender for asking if you want a beer.

How did they "isolate" themselves in a very specific way by being on Purple?

And you can get pissed if you didn't sit down at that bartender's bar...

[Madine]

Hey cool, arexes is a senator?

Well done buddy.

Lots of hails 2 arexes, iFOK and tha Stickmen!

[Drool]

How did they "isolate" themselves in a very specific way by being on Purple?

And you can get pissed if you didn't sit down at that bartender's bar...

You know, they chose to stay neutral regarding the whole purple senate thing rather than contributing.

[astronaut jones]

It depends on your goal I suppose. If you are hoping to rectify the situation and move forward in a better light, you are more likely to accomplish that through private channels. If you are hoping to call out an alliance on a public stage in the hopes of embarrassing them, or something to that affect, then I suppose this is the proper way to do that.

The spotlight is put upon both parties in a situation like this, not just the one being "called out." Both parties are going to be scrutinized by the public at large, their behaviour on full display for all to see. How is that bad, and how is that embarassing for only the party being called out? If the alliance doing the calling does so in a manner that is, suspect at best, then they are the ones who are going to end up looking much worse for wear.

Publically airing things out keeps both parties honest, and, from what I've seen and what I've been a party to in the past, keeps things much more civil. People act differently when they know the world is watching. [edit:] and at the very least, they can't get away with what they might have, if there wasn't an audience.

Edited October 7, 2009 by astronaut jones

[Heracles the Great]

The spotlight is put upon both parties in a situation like this, not just the one being "called out." Both parties are going to be scrutinized by the public at large, their behaviour on full display for all to see. How is that bad, and how is that embarassing for only the party being called out? If the alliance doing the calling does so in a manner that is, suspect at best, then they are the ones who are going to end up looking much worse for wear.

Publically airing things out keeps both parties honest, and, from what I've seen and what I've been a party to in the past, keeps things much more civil. People act differently when they know the world is watching.

My experience has been quite the opposite - people tend to be more cordial and easier to work with when things are done in private. When they are done publicly they tend to shell up and become far tougher to work with. Again, I suppose it depends on your goals and intentions.

You are right though that if done poorly, it can become more embarrassing for the OP rather than the target. We've all seen plenty of example of that in the past.

[Newhotness]

If you keep your members informed they will know who/who not to vote for. So i dont see why these messages are so harmful

[Heracles the Great]

You know, they chose to stay neutral regarding the whole purple senate thing rather than contributing.

Thanks for clarifying what you meant - I appreciate it.

[Stetson76]

Thanks Penkala, for clearing that up for me. I was so confused until you came along and explained this to me. Now I'm perfectly clear on all the issues involved with this....

.... And its still a joke.

We sent out messages encouraging people to vote for a candidate we support. Big deal! To get mad about this is to admit that you're afraid outside thinking will negatively effect your election.

It's not their election. They are not part of the purple unity treaties.

Thinking outside the floating cardbox only works if you're paying attention to the issue at hand.

Damn, we failed. We don't wanna get closer

I don't think he was saying that you were closer to us, more that we're closer to each other now that you've "upped the ante" in our little senate game.

Be that as it may, 12 hours worth of voting does not decide the senate rotation and if Stickmen retain their lead, they've out hustled us this time.

I hold not animosity towards a group trying to do what they can (within reason) to get ahead. SNAFU still hopes that in the future Stickmen decide that coming to a color sphere just to be an antagonist is counter productive to everyone's security and we can move on as friends.

[astronaut jones]

My experience has been quite the opposite - people tend to be more cordial and easier to work with when things are done in private. When they are done publicly they tend to shell up and become far tougher to work with. Again, I suppose it depends on your goals and intentions.

You are right though that if done poorly, it can become more embarrassing for the OP rather than the target. We've all seen plenty of example of that in the past.

I guess it would depend on what the private channels are being used for, but grievances always do better when aired out in public. If it's some sort of nicety, treaty courting or whatever you want to call it, of course doing so in private would be best.

[Guffey]

The Alliances in PEACE knew of our Senate neutrality, it seems that Stickmen did not. This is our notification to stickmen stating our neutrality in senate elections, and that we do not want this to happen again. It also serves as a reminder to all purple alliances of this policy. It is better to give a public position instead of having to convey our policy in private to each and every alliance on purple.

[Shovel]

It's not their election. They are not part of the purple unity treaties.

Thinking outside the floating cardbox only works if you're paying attention to the issue at hand.

Wait, did you really just say you dictate what happens in the purple sphere because you have some pathetic little treaty?

[deth2munkies]

Please destroy them for this, I could use some drama.

If you're going to do it, spin it like this:

The senate has access to sanctions, sanctions can easily be used as a weapon of war, ergo attempting to deceive your less-active alliance members into giving away senate positions to potentially hostile powers is a threat to your alliance security, thus is an act of war.

[Duncan King]

You make a perfectly rational request, Avalon, and an understandable one. It's unfortunate that some in Stickmen will take this polite request as an excuse to mock you.

[WorldConqueror]

It's not their election. They are not part of the purple unity treaties.

You don't have to be a signatory of a senate treaty in order to take part in a senate election, you get that by virtue of being on the sphere. So its Stickmen's election as much as it is Purple Unity's.

[Shovel]

You make a perfectly rational request, Avalon, and an understandable one. It's unfortunate that some in Stickmen will take this polite request as an excuse to mock you.

Yes, censoring what their members can see is perfectly rational, and we are uber mean for pointing that out.

[Stetson76]

Wait, did you really just say you dictate what happens in the purple sphere because you have some pathetic little treaty?

Wow, no, again, I suggest re-reading the OP. They are neutral when it comes to senate voting. Therefor it is NOT THEIR ELECTION. (Emphasis added to make it easier to understand.)

You are trying to unseat the purple unity candidates, that is why I mentioned the fact that they are not members of any of the treaties. But it doesn't change the fact that this is not something they want to be bothered with and made this post to indicate their desires to the larger world.

[Decker]

edit:

got answer already, sowwy.

Edited October 7, 2009 by Decker

[Heft]

To everyone "hailing" the Stickmen, one must wonder how you all would be reacting had the roles been reversed and Valhalla pulled a stunt like this and messaged every member of the Stickmen trying to get it to come off as an official alliance message.

Somewhere out there is a golden rule that once existed but seems to have long been forgotten.

I'm not sure why Valhalla would do anything, but I would expect Avalon to send Stickmen similar messages asking them to vote for their preferred candidate. Or if they didn't want to bother with that, requesting to be put on the "do not call" list privately and leaving it at that would suffice (though be much less interesting). Those are the two reasonable expectations I would have of anyone receiving these sorts of messages from anyone.

Now that doesn't get into the issue of whether or not having a Senator is worth the trouble of sending out these messages or the trouble of irritating your neighbors. I don't think it is, Stickmen apparently do though, so if that's how they feel then whatever, go for it, as long as you're not on my sphere anyway.

[Shovel]

Wow, no, again, I suggest re-reading the OP. They are neutral when it comes to senate voting. Therefor it is NOT THEIR ELECTION. (Emphasis added to make it easier to understand.)

You are trying to unseat the purple unity candidates, that is why I mentioned the fact that they are not members of any of the treaties. But it doesn't change the fact that this is not something they want to be bothered with and made this post to indicate their desires to the larger world.

Yes, you said it is not their election because they are not part of purple unity...that is still saying it is only your election if you are part of purple unity treaties. You may want to re-read what you posted.