Situation Normal: Anti Fraud Update

[Stetson76]

My discussions with this alliance's government has led me to believe that they are perfectly fine with their definition of property rights. Perhaps they'll stand up to take credit?

[President S O]

This isn’t good enough. That was a terrible thing to do to your former alliance mates Lord Exodus, good luck SNAFU in getting justice. Perhaps this alliance should read into its name and let you have a little retribution.

o/

EDIT: Grammar.

Edited September 19, 2009 by President S O

[Jorost]

A pox on anyone who would knowingly protect a saboteur and traitor. SNAFU is a great alliance, with terrific people, and did not deserve that kind of asshattery. If Invicta can sacrifice any goats to the internet gods on your behalf, we would be happy to do so.

[tristram]

I am sorry that this had to happen to such an honorable group such as SNAFU. Destroying the fun of many others is a horrible act especially to people who showed nothing but loyalty in return.

I hope everything is worked out

[Ephriam Grey]

You're better people than I am, I would've rolled them.

[Chalaskan]

My discussions with this alliance's government has led me to believe that they are perfectly fine with their definition of property rights. Perhaps they'll stand up to take credit?

Doubtful, but as a peon I too am curious. Please enlighten the masses!

[ChairmanHal]

This isn’t good enough. That was a terrible thing to do to your former alliance mates Lord Exodus, good luck SNAFU in getting justice. Perhaps this alliance should read into its name and let you have a little retribution.

Hmm...

So we're talking about this "winning" person, eh?

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...ation_ID=242848

If so, he is a Nemesis applicant and in Peace Mode.

[AgentofChaos]

I would like to know this frankly idiotic alliance. If it is Nemesis as Hal suggests then..well frankly I'm disappointed in people I used to think highly of.

[ChairmanHal]

I would like to know this frankly idiotic alliance. If it is Nemesis as Hal suggests then..well frankly I'm disappointed in people I used to think highly of.

If it is, I highly doubt they knew what he was up to in advance. That said, there is a correct way to handle this and hopefully they take the necessary actions to make it right.

[Zoomzoomzoom]

Hmm...

So we're talking about this "winning" person, eh?

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...ation_ID=242848

If so, he is a Nemesis applicant and in Peace Mode.

Nemesis applicant, correct.

For everyone's knowledge Nemesis applicants go through a rigorous 3 day Q&A session with all members. We then judge and discuss them on our private forum to decide whether he or she will make a good fit. Obviously Lord Exodus has come with some heat, but we've taken all the necessary steps to rectify the situation as well as understand it from both sides.

Our application process is one of the best in CN as to make sure a certain applicant will make a good fit. Further, Nemesis has on many accounts offered a hand of assistance to those black listed by other alliances and has no intention of stopping.

EDIT: I won't pretend to have taken part in conversations with SNAFU, but discussions internally as well as with Lord Exodus himself have been extensive.

Edited September 19, 2009 by Zoomzoomzoom

[Banned]

In light of these events, I'm surprised not to see a DoW.

SNAFU, I know absolutely nobody in your alliance, but I would personally like to extend an offer to help in any way I can with getting some guides together for your alliance, hopefully better than those you had before.

[OOC]/query Banned on coldfront IRC network if you'd like to take me up on that offer[/OOC]

[The Big Bad]

Nemesis applicant, correct.

For everyone's knowledge Nemesis applicants go through a rigorous 3 day Q&A session with all members. We then judge and discuss them on our private forum to decide whether he or she will make a good fit. Obviously Lord Exodus has come with some heat, but we've taken all the necessary steps to rectify the situation as well as understand it from both sides.

Our application process is one of the best in CN as to make sure a certain applicant will make a good fit. Further, Nemesis has on many accounts offered a hand of assistance to those black listed by other alliances and has no intention of stopping.

EDIT: I won't pretend to have taken part in conversations with SNAFU, but discussions internally as well as with Lord Exodus himself have been extensive.

You might want to ask, as part of your Q&A, what he plans on deleting from you B) . Just so you know in advance. Blacklisted is one thing, this is another. But I trust Nemesis would want nothing to do with this.

[Stetson76]

Nemesis applicant, correct.

For everyone's knowledge Nemesis applicants go through a rigorous 3 day Q&A session with all members. We then judge and discuss them on our private forum to decide whether he or she will make a good fit. Obviously Lord Exodus has come with some heat, but we've taken all the necessary steps to rectify the situation as well as understand it from both sides.

Our application process is one of the best in CN as to make sure a certain applicant will make a good fit. Further, Nemesis has on many accounts offered a hand of assistance to those black listed by other alliances and has no intention of stopping.

EDIT: I won't pretend to have taken part in conversations with SNAFU, but discussions internally as well as with Lord Exodus himself have been extensive.

A conversation did take place yesterday with two separate members of your government I was told in no uncertain terms that Nemesis considers his actions acceptable and that he is under your protection. The arguement was consistently made that the materials despite having orginated with SNAFU were Lord Exodus' property to do with as he wished and that his position in government at the time of their editing made no difference.

We have no issue with an individual keeping their work and proceeding to take that information elsewhere, our issue is with the aggressive act of deletion from our forums with no warning and an after the fact "I hope this doesn't cause tension". Both of your government members have seen his resignation post where he clearly states that this was an "act of impertinance" and not just a claim for his property rights.

Upon registration on Nemesis' forums so I could have another avenue to speak with them, I saw his application in a public location. Having looked at it, and seeing the general acceptance of his actions, I still tried to speak with their government to register our complaint to no avail.

[BamaBuc]

If you write a guide and give it to an alliance it is the property of that alliance. 'Nuff said.

Hopefully Nemesis will do the right thing and reject this guy. Right and wrong aside, for the life of me I can't see why you would want someone like that in the first place.

-Bama

[Heft]

If SNAFU were to seek punitive measures against this nation, would Nemesis prevent them from doing so?

[Stetson76]

If SNAFU were to seek punitive measures against this nation, would Nemesis prevent them from doing so?

Here is their answer after more than an hour of discussion yesterday...

[14:27] <Poyples> and given all of the information Nemesis has received on the situation, the official stance of Nemesis is that the guides were his to do what he wished with, and as a current applicant he will be afforded the same protection that any full member of Nemesis is.

[14:27] <Poyples> The protection will continue for as long as he remains an applicant before either becoming a full member or going elsewhere. Any actions taken against him would be considered actions against Nemesis as a whole

[15:57] <draov> And it still comes down to he is in peacemode and you cant do anything about it. Should he be accepted, he will then be under our protection, peacemode or not

[Coach]

If you write a guide and give it to an alliance it is the property of that alliance. 'Nuff said.

Hopefully Nemesis will do the right thing and reject this guy. Right and wrong aside, for the life of me I can't see why you would want someone like that in the first place.

I couldn't agree more. I hope nobody picks this guy up. Hell, he's got his own guides, maybe he should start his own alliance. Just my 2 cents.

[Heft]

[15:57] <draov> And it still comes down to he is in peacemode and you cant do anything about it. Should he be accepted, he will then be under our protection, peacemode or not

Well now that's just absurd.

[Cairna]

I couldn't agree more. I hope nobody picks this guy up. Hell, he's got his own guides, maybe he should start his own alliance. Just my 2 cents.

His guides are guides that he simply edited from SNAFU's Ministry of Education.

I know you're not condoning him or anything, but I figured I'd point that out.

[The Green Giant]

oh no he didnt

on a serious note if nemesis was to accept this guy it would show how great there Q/A truly is.

Edited September 19, 2009 by The Green Giant

[Bob Ilyani]

As of now, Lord Exodus is being treated like any other Nemesis applicant. We are currently looking into the nature of this guide deletion and deciding if his deletion of guides was fair or not. However, should he be accepted, which will only happen if the guides are deemed his to take, then he will be under the complete and utter protection of Nemesis. This has been the policy for Nemesis applicants in the past and this will not change. We would like to have the issue resolved favourably for both parties, but in the case of this not happening we will defend our applicant/member, politically and militarily.

[Jacapo Saladin]

As of now, Lord Exodus is being treated like any other Nemesis applicant. We are currently looking into the nature of this guide deletion and deciding if his deletion of guides was fair or not. However, should he be accepted, which will only happen if the guides are deemed his to take, then he will be under the complete and utter protection of Nemesis. This has been the policy for Nemesis applicants in the past and this will not change. We would like to have the issue resolved favourably for both parties, but in the case of this not happening we will defend our applicant/member, politically and militarily.

The fact that it is this big of a mind boggler as to what action you should take, is speaking volumes.

[Heft]

Under what circumstances is deletion of guides "fair?" Even if he had done all the work on them it would still be a grey area at best, and since he apparently didn't do all, or even most, of the work, it's pretty clear cut.

[Vilien]

The fact that it is this big of a mind boggler as to what action you should take, is speaking volumes.

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to take time to decide on a course of action when dealing with sensitize and complicated issues.

[Zoomzoomzoom]

You might want to ask, as part of your Q&A, what he plans on deleting from you B) . Just so you know in advance. Blacklisted is one thing, this is another. But I trust Nemesis would want nothing to do with this.

Regardless of your inflated ego it should be noted our two alliances hold a treaty. Mutual respect of that document would be appreciated.

A conversation did take place yesterday with two separate members of your government I was told in no uncertain terms that Nemesis considers his actions acceptable and that he is under your protection. The arguement was consistently made that the materials despite having orginated with SNAFU were Lord Exodus' property to do with as he wished and that his position in government at the time of their editing made no difference.

We have no issue with an individual keeping their work and proceeding to take that information elsewhere, our issue is with the aggressive act of deletion from our forums with no warning and an after the fact "I hope this doesn't cause tension". Both of your government members have seen his resignation post where he clearly states that this was an "act of impertinance" and not just a claim for his property rights.

Upon registration on Nemesis' forums so I could have another avenue to speak with them, I saw his application in a public location. Having looked at it, and seeing the general acceptance of his actions, I still tried to speak with their government to register our complaint to no avail.

Lord Exodus' actions were a mistake and Nemesis can recognize the hostility they would cause and have. Though we're not going to sit by and watch someone get punished for his first mistake in his entire CN life. I can find how many consider his actions distasteful, but we won't judge him by ONE mistake. His Q&A is currently 6 pages long and we've considered his reasoning, intelligence, and activity very highly. The Q&A goes far beyond what you might expect.

As for him being under our protection? Duh, he's an applicant and we give everyone a fighting chance. That's why we do what we do. Obviously something within SNAFU lit the spark for this whole charade. He didn't fit with your lot...well he might fit in with Nemesis. We're not that bad after all, from what I understand you attempted to discuss this with Daggarz, a friend of SNAFU.

If SNAFU were to seek punitive measures against this nation, would Nemesis prevent them from doing so?

Well if he's accepted as a member..of course. If his status continues as an applicant..yes. It's the same routine at any alliance really. You wouldn't want us attacking NSO apps, correct? Perhaps our Q&A system is different, but it is in place for everyone to take advantage of. I'm sure NSO would agree everyone deserves a second chance as well as home.

oh no he didnt

on a serious note if nemesis was to accept this guy it would show how great there Q/A truly is.

You're aware your alliance welcomed one of the most hated and loathed Hegemony leaders, correct?