Lucas Perry Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 This sucks. Good luck, SNAFU. As stated above, if you need anything, we're here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
President S O Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Its the Big Bad...did you expect anything else? B)Note, thats his own opinion, note the alliance as a whole . To some extent 'his own opinion' represents the IAA and its stance. However, this isn't the issue at hand, this particular issue has been discussed numerous times in other threads. I have no intention of doing it here. Stealing or deleting guides, same thing to me and should receive the same punishment just like everyone else who does it. He should pay for said crime, whether it be a public apology or facing war for a short period of time. Nemesis is just being silly, just from my observations in this thread. It's even more telling when their own allies are saying disapproving remarks. This is pretty much what I was getting too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 To some extent 'his own opinion' represents the IAA and its stance. However, this isn't the issue at hand, this particular issue has been discussed numerous times in other threads. I have no intention of doing it here. I wasn't aware we elected TBB Lord of IAA Policy. Thanks for the update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 P.S.Fathomable now heft? I don't see any sense or reason in your position. Just because he had never deleted a bunch of guides before doesn't mean that "oh he was just being rash it's all okay!" No one is suggesting that we all gather together and condemn him for eternity for his actions, just that he actually be punished for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristram Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 How can a nation who deleted anything be accepted and protected so easily? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 How can a nation who deleted anything be accepted and protected so easily? Who said he was accepted? I'll give you a hint.... no one did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 The fact of the matter is that dropping an applicant on his $@! because certain loudmouths are screaming for blood is not something an alliance should do. When EphriamGrey informed TOP I was on his ZI-list after I had applied, TOP told him to sit on it. Nemesis is a sovereign alliance with its own membership policies; if SNAFU or anyone else decides that they dislike Nemesis' member(s) so much, then they're welcome to aggressively attack Nemesis. At this point he's not even been accepted, there's nothing to act on, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keve69 Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 A truly despicable action.... I dont know you but Im willing to give you a hand with guides if you need it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 The fact of the matter is that dropping an applicant on his $@! because certain loudmouths are screaming for blood is not something an alliance should do. When EphriamGrey informed TOP I was on his ZI-list after I had applied, TOP told him to sit on it. Nemesis is a sovereign alliance with its own membership policies; if SNAFU or anyone else decides that they dislike Nemesis' member(s) so much, then they're welcome to aggressively attack Nemesis.At this point he's not even been accepted, there's nothing to act on, anyway. This sums up everything I want to say on the matter. So instead of complaining about how badly SNAFU's sovereignty was violated, why don't you people show your fake pity to the alliance they're flinging accusations on, when they haven't even accepted the guy yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stetson76 Posted September 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 This sums up everything I want to say on the matter. So instead of complaining about how badly SNAFU's sovereignty was violated, why don't you people show your fake pity to the alliance they're flinging accusations on, when they haven't even accepted the guy yet. There's no accusations to fling, it happened, they knew it happened via his own admission and accept that. We've not taken an aggressive stance since their position was made clear. We are not going to sit back an pretend like we think what he did was okay however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenann Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Seems to me they are not calling for his blood, rather giving Nemesis a heads up about his behaviour and that should he not be a Nemesis App or Member they would deal with him. So I think everyone except SNAFU are calling for blood. SNAFU has accepted and repaired the damage as quickly as possible while putting safe guards for the future. SNAFU, this is sad to see that a once trusted member would cause problems on the way out. Good Luck on getting everything back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred von Tirpitz Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Nemesis is within their rights to defend a nation that they have accepted as an applicant/member. Not going to comment on their policy and procedures. I have seen a similar act in the past, where a member on the way out packed up the guides that he had created. Even in such a case, where the ownership/authorship of the guides was not in question, i would consider this to be an act of anger/discontent. Even if the ownership lies with Lord Exodus, it would have been a simple matter of informing SNAFU leadership of his intent and give them a week or two get alternate educational literature prepared/hosted. Instances such as this make the experience of being on Bob slightly less enjoyable as it can and in this case have resulted in codifying charters to make them more e-laywer friendly. Hoping for a calm resolution to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flonker Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Author's rights is gone too?Karma strikes again! He wasn't the original author, he was the editor. And besides, it's basically a work-for-hire and work product, if you wanna go all legalese... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathcat Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Aside from this obvious act of immaturity (whatever the reason behind it), I do hope that both SNAFU and LE can make peace and come to a peaceful resolution. I commend Stetson and Crew for not taking the low road by announcing the "alliance" or "Nation" by name.. only using the "situation" to make some revisions and public announcements of said revisions. The network of information on alliance membership, past and present, is not secret, hard to find information for most of us.. so, as always, it was bound to come out from somewhere. I reiterate.. I hope that LE and SNAFU can come to a peaceable and agreeable solution to this impasse. Also.. Hey daggarz oo/ SNAFU oo/ Stetson *Good luck to all parties* \oo/ party like a Siamese twin! Twice as hard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ilyani Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 There's no accusations to fling, it happened, they knew it happened via his own admission and accept that. We've not taken an aggressive stance since their position was made clear.We are not going to sit back an pretend like we think what he did was okay however. To be very frank, yes, we have accepted that he took the guides when he left. What you forget is that he claims that they are HIS guides and not yours. Regardless of whose guides they may or may not be, flinging accusations and condemnations at both him and Nemesis is completely stupid and unfair since you haven't heard his side of the story yet. Listen to what he needs to say about the condition of his departure, and then maybe you can make a decision or criticize us for letting this guy apply to join our alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 To be very frank, yes, we have accepted that he took the guides when he left. What you forget is that he claims that they are HIS guides and not yours. Regardless of whose guides they may or may not be, flinging accusations and condemnations at both him and Nemesis is completely stupid and unfair since you haven't heard his side of the story yet. Listen to what he needs to say about the condition of his departure, and then maybe you can make a decision or criticize us for letting this guy apply to join our alliance. Has he claimed that he wrote them? Or is he merely claiming ownership over something he edited? If it's the first, he's a liar, and the second he's wrong. Well, which way you wanna go on this? Also, I have yet to see any "accusations and condemnations" come out of Stetson towards Nemesis-LE nonwithstanding of course because, well, he's the one who did the deed and is where any accusations would lie, not to mention that he already brought it up privately to little avail and resolved not to bring up the matter here. In fact, he still holds the position that so long as he is under your protection no action will be taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stetson76 Posted September 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 To be very frank, yes, we have accepted that he took the guides when he left. What you forget is that he claims that they are HIS guides and not yours. Regardless of whose guides they may or may not be, flinging accusations and condemnations at both him and Nemesis is completely stupid and unfair since you haven't heard his side of the story yet. Listen to what he needs to say about the condition of his departure, and then maybe you can make a decision or criticize us for letting this guy apply to join our alliance. I feel I'm uniquely privy to his side of the story considering he resigned to us and told us that his taking down of the guides was an "act of impertinance". I can also confirm without question that even if he created the guides out of wholecloth, they were implemented while he was a government member of this alliance tasked to do so. He didn't singlehandly create them, but that's beside the point. Our issue is with the action of deleting them without warning. If he was just keeping his copies and giving them to his next alliance, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
President S O Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) nvm. It isn't worth it. Edited September 19, 2009 by President S O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KahlanRahl Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) This entire situation is just plain silly. I agree, Voodoo. All these third parties making threats, suggestions, and accusations are just clearly confusing SNAFU and Nemesis. Locke: Good points, my friend. Edited September 19, 2009 by KahlanRahl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baha24 Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 He didn't singlehandly create them, but that's beside the point. Our issue is with the action of deleting them without warning. If he was just keeping his copies and giving them to his next alliance, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Aha, and the confession comes out. I mean if I were to write a report on, lets say eggs, I will get some help from online sources, BUT when I assemble the report, it will be my report. Same goes for this scenario, he received advice from people who were smart about the topic and he assembled the guides so there for they are his guides. Now how you take your war puppy back to its cage mkaay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Niagara Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Ok...sooo...If I go to Nemesis...then get a government job, get pissed off and delete guides that I made changes to, resigned and went to another alliance, they wouldn't have a right to be upset about it and want to take it out on my nation....noted. I hope I see Nemesis hold the same standard to other alliances they hold themselves too in this case. You will note that no further action has been requested by SNAFU. They announced a charter change due to a situation that occurred to prevent it from happening again. You want to keep him, by all means please do, that is one less headache Olympus will be subject to. SNAFU you guys have all the support in the purple sphere you need to recover from this, and tbh will be better for it from what I have seen. To Nemesis..I wish you luck, if that is the type of membership you wish to have...granted we have all made mistakes in the past..but I for one had to pay for the mistakes I have made... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buds The Man Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) To be very frank, yes, we have accepted that he took the guides when he left. What you forget is that he claims that they are HIS guides and not yours. Regardless of whose guides they may or may not be, flinging accusations and condemnations at both him and Nemesis is completely stupid and unfair since you haven't heard his side of the story yet. Listen to what he needs to say about the condition of his departure, and then maybe you can make a decision or criticize us for letting this guy apply to join our alliance. see lockes post cuz its better and kinder worded than mine could ever be. Seriously he edited guides and improved them so at best he has only the right to take what he added. Aha, and the confession comes out. I mean if I were to write a report on, lets say eggs, I will get some help from online sources, BUT when I assemble the report, it will be my report. Same goes for this scenario, he received advice from people who were smart about the topic and he assembled the guides so there for they are his guides.Now how you take your war puppy back to its cage mkaay? HE DIDNT WRITE the guides he edited them. The original guide was SNAFUs he may have improved them but he didnt write them. There for he destroyed some one elses intellectual property how jacked up is that. Edited September 19, 2009 by Buds The Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baha24 Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Ok...sooo...If I go to Nemesis...then get a government job, get pissed off and delete guides that I made changes to, resigned and went to another alliance, they wouldn't have a right to be upset about it and want to take it out on my nation....noted.I hope I see Nemesis hold the same standard to other alliances they hold themselves too in this case. You will note that no further action has been requested by SNAFU. They announced a charter change due to a situation that occurred to prevent it from happening again. You want to keep him, by all means please do, that is one less headache Olympus will be subject to. SNAFU you guys have all the support in the purple sphere you need to recover from this, and tbh will be better for it from what I have seen. To Nemesis..I wish you luck, if that is the type of membership you wish to have...granted we have all made mistakes in the past..but I for one had to pay for the mistakes I have made... He wrote the guides, just so you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
President S O Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) He wrote the guides, just so you know... Just to let you know, I was in SNAFU for a long time, and LE did not work on those guides alone. EDIT: Further to that. When I was the Director of Alliance Relations for SNAFU, Lord Exodus requested that I write a guide for him to produce in his department. Yeah, he was a real hard worker. Edited September 19, 2009 by President S O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ilyani Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 My point is not whether he wrote or edited the articles, or whatever. In fact, my comment was more directed towards members of alliances outside of the situation, claiming anger and regret towards Nemesis for considering this applicant. I think that this situation can be easily resolved via private discussion between SNAFU, LE, and Nemesis, and that the more public outcries of support for this side and that one on the OWF, the more of an issue this will be, especially if insults start flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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