Shadow King Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I would like to hear why you answered the way you did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Diorno Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Depends on the reasons you joined Vox and NPO. Also, if this is about who I think it is, then here is my synopsis. If you joined Vox because you thought NPO is unethical and wanted to assist the resistance against them, and then joined NPO after their downfall and started complaining that people are saying NPO is unethical, you weren't betraying anyone, you're just an outright moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckz3 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Some Could say NPO is different now, Some could also join to try to make it a better alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) Without knowing the former Voxian's motives for joining NPO we are not really in any position to make judgements on the matter. There could well be a perfectly valid reason that goes a bit deeper than simplistic 'you were once a part of Vox, you can now never be a part of NPO simply because they were enemies' reasoning, so I'd suggest that if you truly want a better understanding of the situation you'd do better to ask the ex-Voxian yourself instead of making silly polls like this. Edited September 16, 2009 by Aimee Mann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) Depends on the reasons you joined Vox and NPO. Also, if this is about who I think it is, then here is my synopsis. If you joined Vox because you thought NPO is unethical and wanted to assist the resistance against them, and then joined NPO after their downfall and started complaining that people are saying NPO is unethical, you weren't betraying anyone, you're just an outright moron. Or maybe you just enjoy gathering and representing different perspectives? I've heard that it can be quite enlightening so maybe you could give it a try before decrying anyone who has the temerity to *gasp* change their opinion *gasp* as a moron, idiot, etc. Edited September 16, 2009 by Aimee Mann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baden-Württemberg Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 My answer on all questions: [12:20] <Francesca[NPO]> To be honest, this conversation thread bores me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenann Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Is it betrayal for any Vox members to be in any Alliance once upon a time known as the Hegemony? Since I bet there are a fair few that are in one of those alliances. You just happen to be picking on the one who has been in the public. Also if people are not allowed to change their views and opinions over the course of their time here than we are destined to be bored to tears. Change is good. Moving on is GOOD... people should try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfEmpty Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Voted for invisible choice "Atlanta". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qazzian Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Voted "No". If you joined Vox to seek change, and then saw that change happening, there's no reason not to join what you think it the right alliance for you. A bigger betrayal would be to join Vox, claim you want change, see change starting, and change what you complain about. That just undermines your entire fight and the fight of everyone you stood with, betraying those who fought next to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I wonder who you could be referring to... In short, since Vox Populi officially disbanded there's nothing to betray per-se. Thus, the answer would be a rather solid "no". If you're referring to the once-again cloudy motivations of that community (which is not the same as the alliances which have shared the same name) then it would depend on if "Kill Pacifica" was on their manifest and that person was still claiming membership. As a side note, if you're actually interested in the answers being provided then good. If you're seeking to draw out Francesca into a shouting match then shame on you. I'll be interested in seeing how this proceeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow King Posted September 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 As a side note, if you're actually interested in the answers being provided then good. If you're seeking to draw out Francesca into a shouting match then shame on you. I'll be interested in seeing how this proceeds. I am a close friend and Francesca. I am actually interested in the answers being provided by the community. I am not doing this for any kind of "shouting match" but just for a casual debate. and again Fran! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I am a close friend and Francesca. I am actually interested in the answers being provided by the community. I am not doing this for any kind of "shouting match" but just for a casual debate. Thank you for clarifying your intentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerdge Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 You can't betray something that doesn't exist anymore, and you can't betray "partially", anyway. (Betrayal is like death and love: it hasn't "degrees"...) I voted "No". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Not in the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Vox disbanded, officially stating their goals were accomplished. I'm not sure it's possible to betray them anymore, given they basically won and then left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desperado Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Coming from the ODN.... People can do what they want. If they are accepted somewhere than so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Un4Gvn1 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 After the Karma war it is possible that former VOX members got to chatting with NPO members and decided there were good folks there and the entire Hegemony situation was something that was inevitable, given the political climate after the war in (late summer) 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox101 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 You can't betray something that doesn't exist anymore, and you can't betray "partially", anyway.(Betrayal is like death and love: it hasn't "degrees"...) I voted "No". Vox still exists. Our brotherhood will never dissappear. As for the topic at hand... I think at this time, it is a betrayal to join the NPO. The NPO hasn't changed. They are the same alliance they were when they were wrecking our nations and listing us on EZI lists for 2 years, just minus the power. All they are doing is biding their time and trying to rebuild their PR until we get a second round of this latest war. Why any true Vox member would have any desire to join and assist them, I have no idea. If the NPO truly changed, then I would see no problem with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) I understand why they-who-are-to-remain-nameless joined but to be honest NPO is too big and too set in their ways for anyone not in the inner circle to affect any changes. Edited September 16, 2009 by James Dahl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) From what I can glean off conversations with Fran, she believes that alliances that made up the Karma coalition have now positioned themselves as the oppressors that NPO once were; therefore, as a fighter against oppression, in Francesca's mind the place to be now is NPO. Despite this reasoning, unfortunately, I must agree with my colleague Starfox. While the individuals within NPO may be cool froods that I enjoy working with on specific issues, it is far too soon to start preaching the good news of the reformed Pacifica. At this point in time, NPO can only do what it's allowed to do, when NPO is allowed to do whatever it wants to do at terms' end, then is the time when we will see what changes have occurred there. Joining them now as some sort of statement against Karma is a fruitless endeavour. I hope and believe that NPO will have re-thought its path by then, otherwise I wouldn't work with them. To stonewall them without giving them a chance would be a betrayal of my involvement in Vox in my mind. Vox Populi fought for people who were oppressed without cause, or who were never given a second chance; that meant fighting against allies of NPO and NPO. Karma fought a defensive war--regardless of whether the dominoes were lined up before NPO pushed over the first one unwittingly--and the results of that war are all reationary to its causes. Not until former-Karma AAs begin organizing against innocents is there a reason to start a "war" against them. If a former Vox member's enlistment at NPO is not a betrayal, it's at least misguided. Edited September 16, 2009 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 To Schattenman's point I don't think either the Emperor or any of the Imperial Officers have attempted to hold up some sort of moment in an attempt to appease the "You haven't changed!" crowd and swing public opinion on the matter. The best that has been said on the subject is something akin to "I guess you'll make up your own mind - we're proceeding forward." To Starfox'S point, again, you can't betray something which made a point of saying that it disbanded. Certainly that person could be seen as moving against the grain of a community they were once an active part of but that isn't betrayal - that's disagreement. One is malicious while the other is idealistic. I'll leave you to determine which is which. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 The answer would vary for each case, but I voted "Yes" because I'm tired of hearing Francesca proclaim how righteous she is because she was in Vox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x8BitL0gic Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) As a former Vox member myself, I can say that it is a better idea to join the NPO and try to get your opinion of change heard, then to join another alliance and continue to loathe them silently until the next "revolution." However, some might consider it a slight betrayal to participate in the very idea that you were trying so fiercely to destroy, no matter how much the NPO might have changed in recent weeks. Edited September 16, 2009 by x8BitL0gic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 It depends on whether you're planning to display NPO screenshots in public at a later date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadshot Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I think people aught to be able to join which ever alliance fits their fancy, assuming said alliance allows them entry. Fran wanted to join NPO and they agreed. She betrayed nothing. She did what she wanted to do and there is nothing wrong with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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