Hyperion321 Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Since you seemed to have forgotten your words and schat needed a reminder I have offered a very detailed showing of your words for you complete with italics, bolding and underlining. It should be very clear that way. Yes, I know what I said. You seem to have taken my words into the context that Sparta as an entity considers NSO a threat. Take a look at the first part of the sentence again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Hmm, I guess that is correct, or it can be seen as a asset to everyone just as easily. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, I suppose. Like I said, yes I do realize that, and I blogged on this exact subject several months ago pretty much advocating this doctrine for precisely the aforementioned reason.Calculated wars are not good for us. They remove the element of courage from decisionmaking. If people you don't know about will maybe interfere in your wars, then you're going to have to have some guts in order to involve yourself in them. All wars must be calculated, else those leaders are not fit to be leaders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted August 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 If you want to make something out of nothing, go ahead. I believe you did that with your first comment. Everything else has simply played into my hands, as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Ok, seriously, guys. You had your little spat, let people get back to dicussing the doctrine. You're increasing the hurrdurr in here exponentially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 All wars must be calculated, else those leaders are not fit to be leaders. Ah, but what if we create a world in which no war can be completely calculated? Or at least make it harder. Right now it only takes a guy with an abacus to calculate wars. I would like it to at least require some kind of scientific calculator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Yes, I know what I said. You seem to have taken my words into the context that Sparta as an entity considers NSO a threat. Take a look at the first part of the sentence again. No, you said that you felt NSO is a threat to Sparta because of the difference of policy between the two so then I made my initial statement about anyone having a differing policy to that of Sparta being a threat to Sparta. I made that statement in response to your statement. It was not going so far as to say your statement was an official Sparta statement. It was only responding to your statement. You took that to mean I was trying to turn it into Sparta's statement which is not true. This is so because I am telling you that is not what it was about. Go back and read it all again without being so defensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 I wouldnt say labeling your statement as a statement of Sparta is fair but none the less I responded to your question. Thank you. I'm glad at least somebody in here knows the difference between me expressing personal concern and Sparta issuing some sort of official threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) The course of action outlined in this doctrine has always been true for all alliances. Societal norms have moved away from this natural state, though, so NSO is being nice enough to give everyone a heads-up. We are truly the finest of gentlemen. Polite, cordial, and considerate. Edited August 9, 2009 by Heft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Thank you. I'm glad at least somebody in here knows the difference between me expressing personal concern and Sparta issuing some sort of official threat. How much of a hypocrite would I be? You realize how many things I say raise the hairs of my tiger companions? I don't dare to list them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 We are truly the finest of gentlemen. Polite, cordial, and considerate. How very unsith like of you. I guess even the sith have a good side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Thank you. I'm glad at least somebody in here knows the difference between me expressing personal concern and Sparta issuing some sort of official threat. No one has stated that you are in any position to be issuing threats on behalf of Sparta. We're all pretty sure they have enough other options to avoid granting you any such authority, for obvious reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 I'm aware.WarriorConcept just appears to be tossing aside that moral foundation of the coalition, and the implications of a "new" CN which were inherent in it as superficial fallacies. Instead he appears to be claiming that the coalition was a patchwork amalgamation of alliances simply exercising their sovereign rights in order to eliminate a common threat with no real moral mission or objectives. The guiding principle of Karma was "what goes around comes around?" Also for the sake of the children, and keeping this thread on topic, let's drop the Karma line of discourse? Also yes, you do have the sovereign right to do what you want but that doesn't inherently justify every action you might choose to make. What your mistake is that you think this document only states that sovereignty exists which it doesn't. What this document does is provide a foundation for the defense of future intervention by providing the NSO with some legal groundwork to reference back to when the e-lawyers come out of the woodwork to criticize their sovereign decisions. To be honest, yes it really was the guiding principle. No one has tried to deny that. I didn't state that, I said they already have the sovereignty to do what they want, and that they'll just reference to this in the future now instead of saying "I don't need to justify it to you." It's just getting some lame arguments out of the way, not changing much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 This is a doctrine I can get behind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 How very unsith like of you. I guess even the sith have a good side. Even Sith can be polite (some of us, anyway). Civility is at times more effectual at realizing our ambitions than wild abandon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiper Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 When everyone's super, no one will be. I knew there was something about Ivan that seemed weird. I guess you figured out his alter ego... I would have died a little inside had no one understood my little quip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Justifying bandwagons and putting your nose into other people's affairs? Awesome. It depends how they use it. I see nothing inherently wrong with this Doctrine, but if it is put into practice in the wrong way........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 This is a doctrine I can get behind! Chill out brah they're not helping small alliances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 The course of action outlined in this doctrine has always been true for all alliances. Societal norms have moved away from this natural state, though, so NSO is being nice enough to give everyone a heads-up. Yeah, I'm sure that's what it is. Good manners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Ah, but what if we create a world in which no war can be completely calculated?Or at least make it harder. Right now it only takes a guy with an abacus to calculate wars. I would like it to at least require some kind of scientific calculator. It's easy to calculate wars, it's harder to get all the players in the places you want them. That's the simulation and political part of this planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Scream Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 I didn't know one needs a doctrine to attack who he wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 No one has stated that you are in any position to be issuing threats on behalf of Sparta. We're all pretty sure they have enough other options to avoid granting you any such authority, for obvious reasons. If you going to insult me, at least do it like a man. Veiled jabs are soooooooo 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivellios Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 The Sith once again makes a choice to conform to no instilled standards but rather what is righteous and just. I cant really see how anyone could mount a pragmatic argument against such... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Chill out brah they're not helping small alliances. Never said they were. I was just proclaiming my appreciation for this document. I like the words that are written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 If you going to insult me, at least do it like a man. Veiled jabs are soooooooo 2008. Well you seemed to understand it well enough, so it couldn't have been that veiled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidMercury Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 It's easy to calculate wars, it's harder to get all the players in the places you want them. That's the simulation and political part of this planet. This is most definitely true. Hardest part of Karma was finding ways in for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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