Swiper

Best birthdate ever.

Cool treaty.

Ivan, that was a mistake, yes, but it [i]did happen[/i]. You can't just pretend that because we did something wrong, it didn't happen. No, we shouldn't have left terms open at the beginning. But we did, and my argument that NSO acted in poor form in response to our mistake is still valid. We both made mistakes, the difference is that we did not intend to. [quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='01 April 2010 - 02:28 PM' timestamp='1270146477' post='2244097'] [color="#0000FF"]What? And where did \m/ accept peace? In private. And I know not everyone else was going to be happy about the ordeal, so you obviously had to make peace with PC, FOK, and God knows who else. Where? In private, of course. Face it, your peace negotiations were done quickly and in secret. You did not tell NSO at all, nor any of your other allies. Even STA felt a little slap in the face, although odds are they won't admit it. Point is, you didn't tell anyone you were accepting peace. Your attempts to revise history are rather weak, and I'll be here to correct you ever time.[/color] [/quote] Public Treaty Negotiations, take one: Grub: So you accept terms? Noob1: BAWWWW Noob2: BAWWWW Noob3: BAWWWW . . . Yeah, private negotiations are totally terrible and not at all common precedent. EDIT: I am done with this thread. I'll end with a great big HAIL to RoK and Polar to make up for all this crap I've spewed here. [size="7"]HAIL[/size]

Ivan, the exit from the war was done on an offer made publicly in the very first declaration. You knew we would exit as soon as \m/ accepted their peace when you entered. Everyone did. You either knew of that fact or you didn't know of that fact, but that was entirely on you. We already apologized for not getting to every single alliance involved notifying them that the deal had been accepted as soon as it was. However, if we were to stay at war at that point we would have been breaking our word to \m/ [i]at a time when we had no idea that would mean breaking our word to you[/i] that you would also receive white peace.

[quote name='Jake Liebenow' date='01 April 2010 - 02:05 PM' timestamp='1270145096' post='2244057'] No, I'm not. I wasn't originally trying to troll, ironically enough, but it just managed to dig under your skin enough that it could probably be considered that. I figured, "Why fight it?" Besides, the fact that it dug under your skin is telling enough. Be that as it may... NSO fought that war to defend Polar. We would've fought for you through hell and back to defend you, and you damn well know it. If that's how you classify egomania, then that's a damn shame. Being a good e-lawyer is not the same thing as being a good treaty partner. Honoring the spirit of a treaty is being a good treaty partner, and we did that in spades. You did not, especially by declaring on a meatshield. Simple as that. Also, it's weird. I think I'm starting to actually like \m/. Hmph. [/quote] You did not honor the spirit of our treaty. You acted in a manner that hurt us both once it became clear we were unable to get you white peace. There is more to friendship than attempted murder-suicide in the name of honor. [quote name='Wad of Lint' date='01 April 2010 - 02:09 PM' timestamp='1270145348' post='2244068'] First, my issue isn't that you organized peace for yourself, but that you did it without talking with us whatsoever. Instead it was designed to be a secret agreement of which we would not be informed until after the fact. This only illustrates the belief of at least some level of wrong-doing. Further, we have consistently been willing to back up your ideals. We have never second-guessed the ability to win, nor whether or not we'd get destroyed. It was simply an accepted possibility, but many things are more important. Finally, your alliance never once tried to understand the reasons by which we were stubborn. You did not seem to care about our principles or beliefs. Instead, your leadership created a arbitrary goal it wished to achieve, and set out to do so without attempting to adequately understand our position. It was a never ending series of promises that couldn't be kept, and expectations that we'd continue to accept apologies and second bests. Again, I reiterate my earlier statement that had individuals been more readily open to communication, we would not be having this conversation. [/quote] It was never designed to be a secret agreement. It was a public offer of peace at the beginning of the war. We plenty well understood why you didn't want to accept the best offer we could get for you, but it was still wrong. Agreed that better communication could have avoided the bulk of this though. That doesn't change that you behaved in a way that damaged your ally for the sole benefit of Ivan once communication failed.

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='01 April 2010 - 01:43 PM' timestamp='1270143767' post='2244026'] Look, I have very direct ties to members in RoK, I wish them nothing but the best and I understand their desire to regain their treaty with NpO, hell it don't take a rocket scientist to figure out that between NpO and \m/ NpO is the better bet. That being said as a member of \m/ I have asked myself the following questions and came to the following answers. 1. Do I trust that RoK would defend us against future NpO aggression? No 2. Do I thrust that RoK would have our best interest at heart if conflict should arise between \m/ and any other alliance tied in any obscure way to this treaty? No 3. Do I feel that RoK adequately sought out the feelings of \m/ membership prior to this re-signing? No I really feel in light of this re-signing and what has been said since that RoK and \m/ need to spend some time together re-evaluating our levels of commitment. I know I have lost some of that desire to defend RoK to a state of ZI if necessary, and if my feelings are common within \m/ it does bring into question whether a MDoAP is a proper treaty to hold. [/quote] If you don't think your ally will defend you then perhaps you should drop the treaty. I have more faith in RoK's dedication to you as allies than you do evidently. [quote name='Wad of Lint' date='01 April 2010 - 01:46 PM' timestamp='1270143958' post='2244031'] Let me offer you my congratulations for e-lawyering yourself out of a sticky situation. While you may have followed every letter on a piece of paper, we were content to go much further than the ink and lay our entire existence on the line for the camaraderie that existed. [/quote] Did it ever cross your mind that perhaps we didn't want you to continue to the death of us both? That perhaps it would have been better for both of our alliances for you to accept terms with no impact on your alliance in the game, and that would probably cause the general population of this game to have [i]more[/i] respect for you as reasonable players? That we lost control of the situation and a real friend in that situation would have been willing to do what was mutually beneficial for both alliances, once it became clear Fark would not give you white peace? We made a promise we unfortunately lost the ability to keep, to get everyone white peace. Our bad. Once we lost the ability to do that, you deliberately hurt yourselves and your friends in order to keep a promise your leader made to his people. Not only that but it could easily be argued that the original condition on which the promise was made no longer existed, and that therefore the promise Ivan made not to surrender was void. But you still acted solely out of self-interest. What we did to you was unintentional. What you did to us was not.

[quote name='Jake Liebenow' date='01 April 2010 - 12:13 PM' timestamp='1270138408' post='2243844'] I'm pretty sure saying that we "martyred" too much, and saying that we chose to stick to both our loins and our treaty and follow through with it, or, as Grub put it, being a "hero", one could draw that conclusion. You went behind our backs and betrayed the spirit of our treaty to go and declare war on someone who was [b]bigger[/b] than who you said was "too big" before. Not to mention the military blunder that was declaring on GOD, a meatshield, in a sense, but that's neither here nor there, I suppose. And you say your government is the one that required the patience? Absolutely despicable. Also, the mere fact that you felt the urge to counter-troll shows that our trolling was effective EDIT: Cleaned up some syntax errors. [/quote] We followed treaty obligations to the letter in each scenario. You decided to be an hero, deliberately keeping both of our alliances at war simply to satisfy the urges of an egomaniac. That is betrayal. The fact that we felt the urge to counter-betray simply shows just how effective your betrayal really was. Also you aren't seriously trolling just to get us to counter-troll, are you? That is quite amateur of you. Real trolling is done to sway the public opinion, which is evidently something you are not very good at, considering we are re-signing treaties and all.

[quote name='Jake Liebenow' date='01 April 2010 - 08:46 AM' timestamp='1270125959' post='2243611'] So, let me get this straight. You're pissed off at us for being TOO GOOD of an ally? I believe this alone speaks volumes for how Polaris treats its treaty partners. Shame, really. I used to have respect for you guys way back when. But to be honest, I'm not sure who's getting the short end of the political stick here, seeing as some of RoK's members actually condone the actions being taken by GRE a few topics over. I have no hails for anyone, here. I feel equally bad for you both. [/quote] I have no idea how anything AlmightyGrub said could in any way be construed as supporting the position you have just raised. The fact that you are able to even arrive at that conclusion is concerning to me, and as a friend of more than one psychologist in training I personally urge you to get yourself checked out, as distortions of reality at that level can be indicative of a serious underlying disorder. Furthermore, I am thoroughly impressed with my government's and my former government's patience in dealing with NSO during and after the conflict. If anything, the sheer force of will they displayed in doing so has shown the world just how worthy of an ally we really are, as I can think of very, very few other alliances who could get us to cancel a treaty with them by sheer force of stubbornness. Also I want to assure you that I am in no way impressed with your post and that my decision to counter-troll is related to a more general desire to counter-troll your trolling in this thread as an alliance, and I was unfortunate enough to get here late.

1% milk is better for you than Skim. It is debatable whether 2% is better than 1%, I'm not sure the studies have been done. Some of the vitamins added (A and D) are fat-soluble and are absorbed by the body better with the presence of fat in the milk, even if just a little, and those vitamins help the absorption of the calcium. This is true especially if you use the milk with cereal, where all sorts of vitamins and minerals are routinely added to the cereal for our health, and some are fat-soluble as well.

[quote name='Chron' date='13 February 2010 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1266116951' post='2180134'] What's truly [i]hilarious[/i] is that you seem to have fallen upon your own ironic sword right there. Being hilarious [i]is the point[/i]. So I don't see why on earth you're trying to use the word with a negative connotation. [/quote] What makes you think I was trying to say hilarious with a negative connotation? I wasn't.

Ugh, the ONE thing that ODN can do right now to lend any credibility to the thinly veiled accusation of hypocrisy present in this hilarious piece of propaganda is to defend themselves against it. And they are out here in full force doing it. Good job guys.

Archon is a pretty chill bro.

Would it be possible to track a "compensated" alliance technology score which would be the total tech with every tech that belongs to a player with a WRC counted twice?

[quote name='mpol777' date='04 February 2010 - 11:55 PM' timestamp='1265345739' post='2160295'] It lasts almost 2 years. [/quote] You just won the game.

Yeah isn't our Q&A topic like the biggest thread evar?