Announcement From The Echelon

[R&R-Viking]

Bay made a comment earlier in this thread.

And has already been explained, it wasn't a threat from IRON (hard to threaten when you have zero military) but more that many people will get a great deal of satisfaction out of watching these alliances, that are destroying this alliance with these harsh terms, getting what is coming to them in the next war. And as anyone who follows CN politics knows, it will happen regardless if IRON plays any role in it.

Stop. I've been told my opinion reflects upon my alliance in this thread, so therefor a member of IRON is the same, and it's also not the first time an IRON member has spoken to me in such a way, either in this war or other times in my CN career. Sorry, but it's my opinion that veiled threats are a strategy IRON has used for years.

[OverCaffeinated]

Stop. I've been told my opinion reflects upon my alliance in this thread, so therefor a member of IRON is the same, and it's also not the first time an IRON member has spoken to me in such a way, either in this war or other times in my CN career. Sorry, but it's my opinion that veiled threats are a strategy IRON has used for years.

Nah, Bill n Ted moved on to Valhalla 15 months ago or so.

[Yggdrazil]

Read the OP.

Read my post "... the bulk of the reps." And again I see nothing for Gato, NpO or Fan.If you use these alliances as examples for why large,harsh and vindictive reps are needed then give the reps to them to right the wrong.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Yggdrazil

[Beauty]

Sad to see you go down like this Echelon, I have sympathy <3.

[Neo Uruk]

Harsh terms for no reason. Its completely unfair especially when enemy alliances were rude enough to message me offensive letters even their "reason for war" was soomthing crude and had the humor of a 12 year old boy. I have seen war before but I haven't seen barbarians until this one. I just hope this surrender rings a bell and reminds us that never again must we become as tyrannical as these people.

Apparently you couldn't handle pathetic "barbarians." If you were in Echelon and you hadn't seen a barbarian, there really was little gov-member interaction.

[kerschbs]

Only my opinion, but too harsh.

[Lord Brendan]

Nah, Bill n Ted moved on to Valhalla 15 months ago or so.

I must admit that's pretty clever.

And true.

[Otherworld]

I'm not fan of harsh terms, never have been. But seeing somebody who perpetuated them get slapped with exactly what they tossed about so freely when the shoe was on the other foot fills me with a sense of deep seated satisfaction.

Unfortunately for Echelon, the universe doesn't operate under the holy principle of "no tag-backs."

I tried to stick away from this topic..but this post is just..idiotic.

Echelon is one of the only hegemony alliances that did not impose harsh reps.

[Virillus]

I tried to stick away from this topic..but this post is just..idiotic.

Echelon is one of the only hegemony alliances that did not impose harsh reps.

Standing around cheering while your buddies beat the crap out of somebody makes you just as guilty as they who actually do the deed. When we were morally outraged at the terms levied upon C&G, Polaris, and GATO, where was Echelon to back us up?

They spent years supporting exactly what has been placed upon them now. These terms are overly harsh, but I have no sympathy.

[Neo Uruk]

Standing around cheering while your buddies beat the crap out of somebody makes you just as guilty as they who actually do the deed. When we were morally outraged at the terms levied upon C&G, Polaris, and GATO, where was Echelon to back us up?

They spent years supporting exactly what has been placed upon them now. These terms are overly harsh, but I have no sympathy.

Nobody who fought for the Hegemony understands that, Vir.

[Big Z]

I tried to stick away from this topic..but this post is just..idiotic.

Echelon is one of the only hegemony alliances that did not impose harsh reps.

And yet they've also spent the better part of the last year threatening either my alliance or my allies, using either the threat of BLEU or 1V to back up their threats. Echelon is no saint.

[Heft]

Standing around cheering while your buddies beat the crap out of somebody makes you just as guilty as they who actually do the deed. When we were morally outraged at the terms levied upon C&G, Polaris, and GATO, where was Echelon to back us up?

They spent years supporting exactly what has been placed upon them now. These terms are overly harsh, but I have no sympathy.

Is this where we go down the list of all the alliances that supported the hegemony? It wasn't a hegemony of one, after all. Granted, Echelon isn't exactly innocent, but it's hard to take this kind of argument seriously when so many other alliances that played at least as important a role as Echelon are being ignored or even rewarded.

[AirMe]

And yet they've also spent the better part of the last year threatening either my alliance or my allies, using either the threat of BLEU or 1V to back up their threats. Echelon is no saint.

Playing devil's advocate, many say the same thing about GOD.

[germanicus]

I cant believe what this world has come up to be like, we in the name of revenge have traded 1 tyrant 100 miles away for 500 tyrants 1 mile away. it seems now adays someone cannot even speak their minds without being threatened with a war or the karma fellows with their usual lol this and lol that and lets kill you for being mean to us outright disrespectfull and I dare say pathetic. stay classy people

[Neo Uruk]

Is this where we go down the list of all the alliances that supported the hegemony? It wasn't a hegemony of one, after all. Granted, Echelon isn't exactly innocent, but it's hard to take this kind of argument seriously when so many other alliances that played at least as important a role as Echelon are being ignored or even rewarded.

Most, if not all, of those alliances have repented truly. Those that hadn't I'm sure have a close eye on them.

I cant believe what this world has come up to be like, we in the name of revenge have traded 1 tyrant 100 miles away for 500 tyrants 1 mile away. it seems now adays someone cannot even speak their minds without being threatened with a war or the karma fellows with their usual lol this and lol that and lets kill you for being mean to us outright disrespectfull and I dare say pathetic. stay classy people

Seriously? If anything, that's pure spin and a lack of attention.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Rey the Great

[AirMe]

I cant believe what this world has come up to be like, we in the name of revenge have traded 1 tyrant 100 miles away for 500 tyrants 1 mile away. it seems now adays someone cannot even speak their minds without being threatened with a war or the karma fellows with their usual lol this and lol that and lets kill you for being mean to us outright disrespectfull and I dare say pathetic. stay classy people

To be fair, I know for me at least, didn't envision things turning out this way when the whole ball started rolling. Maybe I was naive but, yeah, I suspected that things would change for the better, but it is clear that some alliances in Karma are not looking for that.

[sammykhalifa]

I cant believe what this world has come up to be like, we in the name of revenge have traded 1 tyrant 100 miles away for 500 tyrants 1 mile away. it seems now adays someone cannot even speak their minds without being threatened with a war or the karma fellows with their usual lol this and lol that and lets kill you for being mean to us outright disrespectfull and I dare say pathetic. stay classy people

That's not true.

What you see in this thread is what happens when people DO feel safe to speak their minds.

[Azaghul]

I cant believe what this world has come up to be like, we in the name of revenge have traded 1 tyrant 100 miles away for 500 tyrants 1 mile away. it seems now adays someone cannot even speak their minds without being threatened with a war or the karma fellows with their usual lol this and lol that and lets kill you for being mean to us outright disrespectfull and I dare say pathetic. stay classy people

Where has anyone threatened anyone with war for speaking their mind?

[Electron Sponge]

To be fair, I know for me at least, didn't envision things turning out this way when the whole ball started rolling. Maybe I was naive but, yeah, I suspected that things would change for the better, but it is clear that some alliances in Karma are not looking for that.

You can't be surprised, AirMe. Some of the Karma alliances were part of the hegemony they now decry mere weeks before the war. I knew there would be aberrations from the overall movement as this multi-front war was decided to be taken on a front-by-front basis instead of classifying alliances according to their distance from the center of the Q/1V hegemony. I guess that idea made some people uncomfortable, that alliances would be judged by how close they were to the ones who rode rough shod over the rest of us for so long. It was an idea that hit a little too close to home, and we've all seen the alliances with a tight relationship to certain background players in Karma get a pat on the bottom and a scoot out the door comparatively.

[Shodemofi-NPO]

I cant believe what this world has come up to be like, we in the name of revenge have traded 1 tyrant 100 miles away for 500 tyrants 1 mile away. it seems now adays someone cannot even speak their minds without being threatened with a war or the karma fellows with their usual lol this and lol that and lets kill you for being mean to us outright disrespectfull and I dare say pathetic. stay classy people

Say what you will about Karma's terms not being much better than the hegemony's, etc., etc. But I have yet to see someone attacked for comments they made on the OWF since the Karma War began, which already makes it a better place than the one that was ruled by the NPO.

[Caffine]

And yet they've also spent the better part of the last year threatening either my alliance or my allies, using either the threat of BLEU or 1V to back up their threats. Echelon is no saint.

This is very ironic considering the situation you are referring to was Echelon stepping in to stop one of your allies bullying one of Echelon's allies.

[Big Z]

This is very ironic considering the situation you are referring to was Echelon stepping in to stop one of your allies bullying one of Echelon's allies.

I'm referring to multiple situations actually but that situation you're referring to had little bullying in it. Unless of course you're implying that a person can't choose who to kick/ban from the channels they own?

Edited July 8, 2009 by Big Z

[Drostan]

I cant believe what this world has come up to be like, we in the name of revenge have traded 1 tyrant 100 miles away for 500 tyrants 1 mile away. it seems now adays someone cannot even speak their minds without being threatened with a war or the karma fellows with their usual lol this and lol that and lets kill you for being mean to us outright disrespectfull and I dare say pathetic. stay classy people

This just didn't happen. None of it. Your metaphor is non-sensical. When someone gets declared on by any Karma alliance for speaking please let me know. For that matter, please let me know when any Karma alliance threatens to declare on someone for speaking. I suggest you crawl back to that rock you've been hiding under and study the history before making outlandish accusations.

EDIT: The messing with an enemy's government thing is sort of a bad example as that is part of the surrender terms here in fact. heh.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Drostan

[Voodoo Nova]

This just didn't happen. None of it. Your metaphor is non-sensical. When someone gets declared on by any Karma alliance for speaking please let me know. For that matter, please let me know when any Karma alliance threatens to declare on someone for speaking. I suggest you crawl back to that rock you've been hiding under and study the history before making outlandish accusations.

EDIT: The messing with an enemy's government thing is sort of a bad example as that is part of the surrender terms here in fact. heh.

Some of you have a history of supporting such things.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Voodoo Nova

[Salmia]

People who are in Hegemony alliances that received light or zero terms should really stop complaining about 'evil Karma' ... yes I'm looking at you, TOOL posters. If Karma was so bad, you wouldn't have been able to rebuild that ivory tower you're shouting down from today.

I know this was written two days ago but I am going to address it now and say there is no "ivory tower". We all are part of the same community here. We're free to speak our opinion the same as everyone else. I don't believe Karma is evil but everyone here, Hegemony or Karma is human. We all make mistakes and just because of specific peace terms doesn't mean we can't speak our mind. We're indebted to Karma for giving us peace terms? Because of that we shouldn't speak our stance on it?

I can respect Sparta, DT, Brigade for giving TOOL white peace but that doesn't mean I or any other TOOLie is not going to speak our mind. We knew going in that we could be potentially destroying ourselves, we knew we weren't on the winning side. We weren't on an "ivory tower". We fought on the losing side of GW4. We've seen both sides and we know it.

Karma isn't evil but TOOL is allowed to speak our mind as are our members. You may have your opinion but that doesn't mean we can't be concerned about our friends or as a community member. We have our right to speak our mind just as you do. There is no ivory tower when our friends are still on the battlefield (TPF) and that we're concerned for them as we are others.

What Karma does have an effect on the future of the community and so we can speak our opinion. Does it mean you're going to listen? Does it mean you're going to dismiss it as Hegemony speak? Yes, we know that but that doesn't mean we cannot speak it. My opinion is not worthless just because of where I come from or because of terms given to me. I am going to speak if I choose to as well as TOOLies.