Rush Sykes Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Who was it again who said that every alliance accepts information?We never did quite hear where you got your information from by the way. As far as I can tell to get it you must have done the same thing OV did. Regarding the thread's topic: good luck to both parties. I support this statement for its total use of logic and tact. "We used information from a treasoner or a spy to catch a spy" should not be accepted in a world where honor matters. Perhaps, in a world where "every alliance accepts information," its not so bad. But you cant play it both ways. Spying is bad, but treasonous alliance member who want to funnel us information to hang another alliance is good....FAIL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Mhawk was right there pushing for war from the start, and although TPF don't score the same level of dishonour as NPO over this incident (attacking during talks and then trying to stall surrender talks to get into peace mode), it would be surprising if they were let off without reparations. By stubbornly sticking to fighting with the NPO they have done significant extra damage to Karma nations, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmmehhh Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I think TORN is better of without TPF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The AUT Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) You're right, TPF was not in the first wave of attack. Neither were a half dozen other alliances who were preparing for war a week or two in advance. Can you seriously claim that the alliance who packaged up a CB and brought NPO and TORN to the negotiation table is any less responsible for the mess they created? You can point to Valhalla and GGA getting off with near non-existent terms, but that's not a precedent that should have been set in the first place. Bringing down the hegemony doesn't begin and end with Pacifica, the guilt for so many past atrocities runs far beyond that. Yes, as it lies with the likes of Gramlins, Sparta, Ragnarok, and many others who supported them up until now. Inconvenient truths, let's ignore them in pursuit of reparations for the Federation of Bucaneers shall we? By stubbornly sticking to fighting with the NPO they have done significant extra damage to Karma nations, after all. I seriously hope you're being sarcastic because if you're not then... Edited June 16, 2009 by The AUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poyplemonkeys Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 By stubbornly sticking to fighting with the NPO they have done significant extra damage to Karma nations, after all. This seems to be assuming reparations are actually for repairing damage caused whilst at war but I don't think anyone is naive enough to believe that is the case after seeing what NPO were offered. I guess if we ever see the Grämlins codex forced into action you'll be touting the act of dying alongside your allies and refusing to accept ridiculous reparations payments as mere 'stubbornness' too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfEmpty Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 By stubbornly sticking to fighting with the NPO they have done significant extra damage to Karma nations, after all. Excellent. TPFers please read and digest. This is from Maximum Bob and it's the truth. Standing by for Karma Korus saying naw.... twern't nuttin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 And as usual, a thread contains a load of !@#$%^&* from people who haven't a clue of what they are talking about.Anyway, it's sad to see two allies go separate ways. Best of luck in the future. And whom would these people who havn't a clue be? All the TPF guys that were intimating that there might be another story? Or, maybe you had someone else in mind? I'd re-read Kung Fu Geeks' posts, as they contain much the same as I would say. Which is the Torn company line. Why did you leave them again? Mhawk was right there pushing for war from the start, and although TPF don't score the same level of dishonour as NPO over this incident (attacking during talks and then trying to stall surrender talks to get into peace mode), it would be surprising if they were let off without reparations. By stubbornly sticking to fighting with the NPO they have done significant extra damage to Karma nations, after all. Wow Bob, just wow. Seems the hegemonic ways rubbed off on you quite a bit during your stay there. TPF has to pay reperations for doing damage to Karma nations because they continue to honor a treaty they signed. Seriously? That is the way you and Gramlins want things to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kung Fu Geeks Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) I'd re-read Kung Fu Geeks' posts, as they contain much the same as I would say. Don't bother imperator. He is one of those people that already has set in his mind the story he wants to believe and he will accept no further information that may be contrary to those opinions. Myself on the other hand I want to hear other sides of the story and I will adjust my opinions on based on what I hear. Edited June 16, 2009 by Kung Fu Geeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEd Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 This is unfortunate to see. Best of luck to both TPF & TORN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Wow Bob, just wow. Seems the hegemonic ways rubbed off on you quite a bit during your stay there. TPF has to pay reperations for doing damage to Karma nations because they continue to honor a treaty they signed. Seriously? That is the way you and Gramlins want things to be? You (and a few others grossly misinterpreting his post) REALLY should learn to !@#$@#$ read. it would be surprising if they were let off without reparations. He never once said Gre wanted them, he never once said he wanted them, he merely commented on the liklihood of them having to pay reps for their involvement in this war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apriland Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) I couldn't do it, I'm a softy.... Hippy!!!!!! Of course!! Everyone loves mhawk Cause he's a hippy, yes! People in this thread that don't think KFG and Imperator are good sources of info (people in TORN gov at the time, but have no reason to lie in pursuit of political gain because they aren't in TORN anymore) are almost as silly as the people who are assuming what The Grâmlins desires are and questioning The Grämlins's honor based on the simple fact that BobJanova can't help but point out obvious future events when no one else has seen/mentioned them yet. Last but not least..... I don't ever want to see pics of Ayrrie wearing that flag. Edited June 16, 2009 by apriland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverlordOeboema Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I think TORN is better of without TPF this. Good luck to both alliances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poyplemonkeys Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) You (and a few others grossly misinterpreting his post) REALLY should learn to !@#$@#$ read.He never once said Gre wanted them, he never once said he wanted them, he merely commented on the liklihood of them having to pay reps for their involvement in this war. Yeah, but the reasoning he used is completely false in my opinion. TPF will get reps because of their involvement in the war, A) because they deserve them for past attrocities committed, and B) because a bunch of karma people don't like them. It's got nothing to do with them causing more damage by 'stubbornly sticking to fighting with the NPO' because anyone who believes reps are still for actually repairing damage caused is at a level of naive that should probably see them in a strait jacket as they can't handle the world as it really is. Also, the 'few others' leads me to believe you were referencing my post as it was only myself and AUT that had commented on Bob's post when you posted and you definitely were talking about multiple people misinterpreting his post on top of Heinous One. So, well, I'm confused. I'd like you to explain how I misinterpreted it, because the first part of my post is explained above, and the 2nd part is not based on what he wants, but how he decided to describe TPF fighting till death for their friends as mere stubbornness. Really don't think there's a whole lot to misinterpret there. Edit: Freaking smilies Edited June 16, 2009 by Poyplemonkeys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol Navy Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I am pretty sure we've never for a minute thought we'd get white peace at the end of this. I do find it to be a sad world when you are called out for trying to be true to your word and follow through with your treaty til you've literally given everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smacky Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Yes, as it lies with the likes of Gramlins, Sparta, Ragnarok, and many others who supported them up until now. Inconvenient truths, let's ignore them in pursuit of reparations for the Federation of Bucaneers shall we? If you are dense enough to think we've fought for two months in pursuit of reparations, you obviously don't know us and our allies. By all indications your ignorance is willful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) This isn't really about reps for TPF, I'd like to at least wait for that fight until we are actually decide to entertain them. Sorry it has turned to this sort of thread, it really is a shame these things are no longer lockable. Edited June 16, 2009 by mhawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 That does not excuse the multitude of other treaties that TORN had with other alliances who became involved in the war, including TPF. Essentially, TORN got NPO to start the war and used NPO's attempt to negotiate a peace to back out, leaving the rest of tC/1V to take an $@!-kicking because they, especially TPF, understand what it means to be an ally. This is essentially correct. TORN only got out of the war after talking with all of her MDP+ allies in duckroll and TPF* and every single one of them told her to get out. TORN didn't want to surrender if her allies were going to get sucked in, but were told that they would be fine. This is also essentially correct. If it hadn't been for Doctor Fresh, the plan might have worked even. In this case, TPF has done one thing: defend her allies. The only kool aid consumed here was the stuff that made you forget about their circumstances and what has happened during this war. Come now, mhawk was more involved than that. Let's not forget who was involved in the questioning of sethb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i surge i Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Wow this thread got real classy, for those who are crying for more info about what happened to TORN at the beginning of the war get over it, the relevant reasoning has already been given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Blake Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Sorry to get back on topic, but good luck TPF, a little late for spring cleaning but it's still nice to clear out some treaties that no longer mean what they once did. Best of luck with the future, and have fun warring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieG Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Good luck TPF. We have great respect for you, sadly it isn't enough at this point in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Wow this thread got real classy, for those who are crying for more info about what happened to TORN at the beginning of the war get over it, the relevant reasoning has already been given. No it really hasnt. Either you are gung ho on protecting Torn, your allies, or on protecting the person who is essentially responsible for all of it. Personally I dont see why you would need to do the second as it was a pretty slick maneuver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Mhawk was right there pushing for war from the start, and although TPF don't score the same level of dishonour as NPO over this incident (attacking during talks and then trying to stall surrender talks to get into peace mode), it would be surprising if they were let off without reparations. By stubbornly sticking to fighting with the NPO they have done significant extra damage to Karma nations, after all. Here's the thing about Mhawk's actions in those negotiations... At that point in time, the CB contained other points that were potentially legitimate. The accepting screenshots thing was just one point. Thing is... The other parts were never proven, so NPO and TORN just went ahead with the very shaky (but proven) part. But in that oft-cited discussion, there were many things being discussed by the parties involved. If Mhawk was "pushing for war" in those discussions, it was because it looked like there might be a real CB. Hence why he pushed so hard to get to the bottom of things. In the end, nothing was proven other than the not-so-solid accepting-screenshots part. But at the time of that IRC convo, the potential CB being discussed by Mhawk and the rest was a lot more than that. As for the last part... LOL. How dare we damage Karma nations? We're only at war with them. We should all just turtle and not hurt them. Or better yet we should surrender and abandon our allies. That sounds like a great plan. -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Boris Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I think TORN is better of without TPF While that may be true, TORN is also better off without FOK (who were very blatantly hostile towards TORN a good month before FOK even dropped their MDP with them), in all fairness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 While that may be true, TORN is also better off without FOK (who were very blatantly hostile towards TORN a good month before FOK even dropped their MDP with them), in all fairness. Hmm, if the list of cancellations on Torn grows, will Torn be better off without them too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Mhawk was right there pushing for war from the start, and although TPF don't score the same level of dishonour as NPO over this incident (attacking during talks and then trying to stall surrender talks to get into peace mode), it would be surprising if they were let off without reparations. By stubbornly sticking to fighting with the NPO they have done significant extra damage to Karma nations, after all. oh boo hoo for karma. some nations took extra damage in war.. THATS WHAT HAPPENS IN WAR, YOU BLOW !@#$ UP! so what if extra damage was caused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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