IRON Surrenders

[Lord Brendan]

Like I told Lee, they damn well better send every cent they get to alliances who deserve it, like GPA or GATO. Every mother$%&@ing cent. But they won't. It'll all end up in their pockets. Such is war... But that doesn't make it right.

I disagree with reps to cover damage, except when attacked unprovoked. The only alliance who deserves damage reps is OV. If you choose to enter a war, the damage is on you. Reps for past transgressions? Depending on the transgression, how long ago it was, and the reps demanded, yes, I think that's fine. But here's the problem: They never seem to go to those who were wronged. GPA, GATO, etc would have every right to demand some measure of reps from IRON. RoK doesn't. Especially when you consider that IRON has already paid in damage.

If it makes you feel better, pretend IRON is paying back the reps they took from CSN a year ago at 1000% interest.

[bill n ted]

If it makes you feel better, pretend IRON is paying back the reps they took from CSN a year ago at 1000% interest.

As Karma has stated time and time again. What goes around comes around. Given Karma is such a fragmented coalition with enough differences to spark another war when this war is over it makes me lol.

Id like to be the first to state that CSN's reps to IRON for the next war is 10,000% of this war. Just to spread the love and put CSN back in its place

[Shodemofi-NPO]

Big words for what I would consider leadership of an "ankle biter alliance" if youll excuse my wording (for definition : not a strategic alliance in the slightest). I look forward to your surrender in a few months

He isn't in a main alliance he doesn't get an opinion? What?

[Teriethien]

Also, IRON's war was in defense of an ally, which in my opinion is not offensive.

I would agree with you here if the ally in question didn't start the whole conflict in a strictly offensive capacity.

[fireguy15207]

Big words for what I would consider leadership of an "ankle biter alliance" if youll excuse my wording (for definition : not a strategic alliance in the slightest). I look forward to your surrender in a few months

Dude, what the hell are you on about? How is what I said "big words?" I'm just stating what would be a fair rep number. And just because we're sub 1M NS doesn't mean we're of no strategic importance.

[BamaBuc]

Oh sure, declaring in defense of a ally isn't an offensive action in and of itself, but who you declare war on is by nature an offensive action. Though, again, it goes back to strategy and the consequences of that strategic decision.

For all intents and purposes, IRON knew exactly what they were getting into and man'ed up and got into it anyway, which is good on them. Plus, I've run across one or two IRON folks that are among the classiest of folks (Yes Electric Mango, I'm talking about you,) so I'm fairly sure that in the long run after everything is said and done they'll end up doing just as well or better than they were when all this started.

/and I'll skip the request Tigers bleaux their way to two national championships recently. Let's face it, some good ole SEC hate is pretty fun, it won't be long till somebody says stop it..

A very good point. But RoK also knew what they were getting into, or should have. You take your lumps and move on, unless your foe commits some wrong against you aside from defending an ally.

OOC: This thread is now about SEC football and the godliness of Nick Saban.

-Bama

[bzelger]

For the same reason that paying a fine for vomiting on the nice police officer’s shoes after he notices you stumbling from those bushes outside the bar is meant as a token of penitence, rather than filling the city’s treasure chest, IRON agrees to acknowledge “you win, we lose” by paying a total of 20,000 technology and $1,500,000,000 in reparations to Ragnarok; and 2,500 technology each to the International Protection Agency, Ascended Republic of Elite States, The Order of Halsa, and Royal Order of Confederate Kingdoms.

The Grämlins, Farkistan, Mostly Harmless Alliance, and Fifth Column Confederation consider the IRON nations’ hospitality during this conflict payment enough and request no additional repartitions.

i.e Everyone other than RoK and IPA and a few others wanted reps.

Suck it up IRON. When the next war comes around you can always make sure your on the opposite side. Personally Id settle for triple previous reps, with 6 weeks of eating nukes prior to any surrender being accepted I think IRONs in a strong position all things considered.

The next war will be fun. You may get your goodies out of IRON right now but I really really hope it plays out my way in the long run. Next time IRON wont be on the loosing side, I cant wait to see the outcome of that.

Karma, what goes around comes around

I'm glad to see that Valhalla is turning over a new leaf.

[Archon]

For the same reason that paying a fine for vomiting on the nice police officer’s shoes after he notices you stumbling from those bushes outside the bar is meant as a token of penitence, rather than filling the city’s treasure chest, IRON agrees to acknowledge “you win, we lose” by paying a total of 20,000 technology and $1,500,000,000 in reparations to Ragnarok; and 2,500 technology each to the International Protection Agency, Ascended Republic of Elite States, The Order of Halsa, and Royal Order of Confederate Kingdoms.

The Grämlins, Farkistan, Mostly Harmless Alliance, and Fifth Column Confederation consider the IRON nations’ hospitality during this conflict payment enough and request no additional repartitions.

i.e Everyone other than RoK and IPA and a few others wanted reps.

Suck it up IRON. When the next war comes around you can always make sure your on the opposite side. Personally Id settle for triple previous reps, with 6 weeks of eating nukes prior to any surrender being accepted I think IRONs in a strong position all things considered.

The next war will be fun. You may get your goodies out of IRON right now but I really really hope it plays out my way in the long run. Next time IRON wont be on the loosing side, I cant wait to see the outcome of that.

Karma, what goes around comes around

Bahahahaha what? Did you think before writing? I mean, really? The reparations are extremely light, considering past history, various precedents, and the size of IRON. Your post here really serves as a strong point toward NOT showing mercy. Good to know you've learned nothing.

[King DrunkWino]

A very good point. But RoK also knew what they were getting into, or should have. You take your lumps and move on, unless your foe commits some wrong against you aside from defending an ally.

OOC: This thread is now about SEC football and the godliness of Nick Saban.

-Bama

I'm sure RoK did, in fact know the risks, which is why those reps amounts look high on paper, in context of IRON's ability, should mean little more than a bump in the road. I'm sure they have the talent in house they need to take care of those and get back up as soon as possible.

OOC: You know? In my world that's about as good as a DoW if there ever was one, except of course Auburn. That would be a mean declaration of jihad

[bigwoody]

50 tech and 3M per member or even double that would be a good standard. Definitely would be fair, but it does set up for some bad translations (read: this thread and everyone stating these reps are harsh).

Seeing as I'm not a fan of reps, I was slightly sarcastic.

[Mandrivia_2]

Archon, all BnT wants is attention. Best not to give it to him. He's pissed he's lost the war, his words mean nothing.

$1.5 billion in reps and thousands of tech seems fair considering they have supported all of NPO's atrocities since allying them.

Edited May 25, 2009 by Mamaev II

[fireguy15207]

Seeing as I'm not a fan of reps, I was slightly sarcastic.

Fair enough. But that number I gave definitely isn't a horrible number, not like what we've seen in the past.

[Bob Janova]

Bill n Ted just likes to cause trouble, I'd ignore him if I were you. It's interesting to see that some of the Hegemonists have learnt nothing at all from losing though. It's almost a shame people like that are given a second chance, and a reminder that while we are currently able to create a more moral world, there are still those out there who would destroy our civilisations if given the opportunity.

Fortunately, this war means that they won't be. I don't believe that IRON share his violently aggressive nature, which is why he had to move to an alliance that does – and which is now too small to cause trouble.

[Kevin McDonald]

Dude, what the hell are you on about? How is what I said "big words?" I'm just stating what would be a fair rep number. And just because we're sub 1M NS doesn't mean we're of no strategic importance.

Don't worry, FG. BnT is like a father figure to IPA. He comes down on us hard, but he really means well. He hits us with the tough love, but at the end of the day only does it to toughen us up. He wants to see us succeed. If you have any doubts about that, just look towards my sig.

[President Obama]

You know, this wouldn't be a bad standard for victory spoils in all future wars.

I'd rather not have 'victory spoils' at all.

[Heft]

Bill n Ted just likes to cause trouble, I'd ignore him if I were you. It's interesting to see that some of the Hegemonists have learnt nothing at all from losing though. It's almost a shame people like that are given a second chance, and a reminder that while we are currently able to create a more moral world, there are still those out there who would destroy our civilisations if given the opportunity.

Fortunately, this war means that they won't be. I don't believe that IRON share his violently aggressive nature, which is why he had to move to an alliance that does – and which is now too small to cause trouble.

BnT is a wonderful person and we'd all be better off if more people were like hm and less people spent their time wallowing in pointless moralizing and "lessons."

[Ejayrazz]

Posting ridiculing remarks about BnT will make it worse.

Though Heft, pointless in itself is subjective.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Ejayrazz

[King Srqt]

RoK doesn't deserve a cent. When has IRON wronged them? When did IRON roll them? When did IRON give them harsh terms? When did IRON's allies do any of those things to RoK either? There are alliances who deserve restitution, and there are alliances who pillage in the name of justice. Like I told Lee, they damn well better send every cent they get to alliances who deserve it, like GPA or GATO. Every mother$%&@ing cent. But they won't. It'll all end up in their pockets. Such is war... But that doesn't make it right.

-Bama

I think everyone knows my stance on reps in this type of situation but if anyone deserves reps it would be the alliance that was declared on (which in this case is RoK). It could be argued that IRON wronged RoK when they issued that DoW against them in support of NPO in their aggressive war with OV. Again you know my stance but my stance is based on my own morals and as committed to them as I am I can not deny the logic behind the counter argument even if I would not personally follow it.

Congrats on peace all around regardless of anything else.

[Heft]

Posting ridiculing remarks about BnT will make it worse.

Though Heft, pointless in itself is subjective.

I would consider it pointless in that it very rarely has any meaningful impact on anything. Even this war, for all the talk of karma and values and wrongs and justice, is only the result of a political conflict which the "hegemony" lost, and mistakes the hegemony made, and conflicts internal to the hegemony, leading to it splintering and creating the situation where those who were enemies of the hegemony and the mobs they've riled up were able to successfully storm the gates.

[Roadie]

I know I'm going to get pounded for saying this. BUT, I'm too stupid too keep my mouth shut, and I'm an ebil Hegem anyway, so here goes...

Considering the number of nations in IRON, I do acknowledge that these terms are gentle. I also have to acknowledge that the bad blood generated by even gentle terms would seem to support the opinion of those that are against reps of any kind.

And yes, I'm well aware that this post is likely to get several 'you're just against them now because you're losing' posts. Please, keep them coming. We've all read dozens of those posts and they're always refreshing.

P.S. Try as you may to draw conslusions about my view on reps, you can't from this post, but feel free to do exactly that anyway.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Roadie

[crushtania]

Argument without fact or referent remains as hollow as a fallen log.

The reparations handed out to RoK and FARK wouldn't even rebuild 5 of their top nations to pre-war levels. I know this because one particular nation in MHA has lost billions worth of infra and tech. All of the cash reps alone would not even return him to where he once started.

[Vhalen]

Yes, it can backfire if you lose. But it still isn't wrong to do it. Might does not make right. (in before OMG YOU HYPOCRITE... not necessarily from you, but someone's gonna say it) Also, IRON's war was in defense of an ally, which in my opinion is not offensive.

Well, if you view the war as a whole cloth, then they were defending the aggressor, and thus their war could, in fact, be construed as an offensive war.

He isn't in a main alliance he doesn't get an opinion? What?

Shh, he's clearly been conditioned. Only Spartans and their helots may have opinions now.

[Tygaland]

For the same reason that paying a fine for vomiting on the nice police officer’s shoes after he notices you stumbling from those bushes outside the bar is meant as a token of penitence, rather than filling the city’s treasure chest, IRON agrees to acknowledge “you win, we lose” by paying a total of 20,000 technology and $1,500,000,000 in reparations to Ragnarok; and 2,500 technology each to the International Protection Agency, Ascended Republic of Elite States, The Order of Halsa, and Royal Order of Confederate Kingdoms.

The Grämlins, Farkistan, Mostly Harmless Alliance, and Fifth Column Confederation consider the IRON nations’ hospitality during this conflict payment enough and request no additional repartitions.

i.e Everyone other than RoK and IPA and a few others wanted reps.

Suck it up IRON. When the next war comes around you can always make sure your on the opposite side. Personally Id settle for triple previous reps, with 6 weeks of eating nukes prior to any surrender being accepted I think IRONs in a strong position all things considered.

The next war will be fun. You may get your goodies out of IRON right now but I really really hope it plays out my way in the long run. Next time IRON wont be on the loosing side, I cant wait to see the outcome of that.

Karma, what goes around comes around

I hereby retract all complaints about the terms Valhalla received. They have clearly changed for the better and the leniency of the terms has facilitated this more quickly than I could have imagined.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Tygaland

[King Srqt]

For the same reason that paying a fine for vomiting on the nice police officer’s shoes after he notices you stumbling from those bushes outside the bar is meant as a token of penitence, rather than filling the city’s treasure chest, IRON agrees to acknowledge “you win, we lose” by paying a total of 20,000 technology and $1,500,000,000 in reparations to Ragnarok; and 2,500 technology each to the International Protection Agency, Ascended Republic of Elite States, The Order of Halsa, and Royal Order of Confederate Kingdoms.

The Grämlins, Farkistan, Mostly Harmless Alliance, and Fifth Column Confederation consider the IRON nations’ hospitality during this conflict payment enough and request no additional repartitions.

i.e Everyone other than RoK and IPA and a few others wanted reps.

Suck it up IRON. When the next war comes around you can always make sure your on the opposite side. Personally Id settle for triple previous reps, with 6 weeks of eating nukes prior to any surrender being accepted I think IRONs in a strong position all things considered.

The next war will be fun. You may get your goodies out of IRON right now but I really really hope it plays out my way in the long run. Next time IRON wont be on the loosing side, I cant wait to see the outcome of that.

Karma, what goes around comes around

Already openly hating on SF and TT and hinting at harsh reps eh? Hope this doesn't represent Valhalla's view because if it does I assure you you will not get the same exit as you did this war. Fool me once...

Edited May 26, 2009 by KingSrqt

[KingSuck]

yes because one member, who's not gov, and has a deep-rooted history with IRON, is upset with the terms they received clearly means Valhalla has not changed at all.

It's starting to get ridiculous now, can we just have one thread where our peace terms don't get brought up? please?