Protected Nation

[Hyperion321]

I've never been a big FAN of GGA, but I think we could have gotten through this thread with a lot less rudeness. Seriously...telling an alliance to disband (jokingly or not) because they made a mistake which they felt was the best path for their alliance? You may disagree with their actions but that's no excuse for some of the horrible shots that have been thrown around in this thread. I'm disgusted.

What has this game turned in to.

[Ragashingo]

You know, I missed this topic on my first viewing of the boards today. The title is disastrously boring for such an amazing topic. Anyway, on to page 18 of 57ish!

[Schattenmann]

Now the GGA is lying to its membership. Tut tut. You never learn.

Degenerate108 (edit) has joined #edit

<~Epiphanus> shane catch him up in here if you want

<~Epiphanus> I wouldn't mind seeing your synopsis of events

<degenerate108> hiya duudes

01<Virillus> I think this is also an oppoutrunite time to restate that this is a conference of individuals

01<Virillus> Not alliance leaders.

<~Epiphanus> especially since I lead no alliance

<degenerate108> some days i dont either

<shaneprice[GGA]> Of course...Epip just told me to try to get the other tri's in here if I wanted. I wanted...degen is so secksy

01<Virillus> Oppoutrunite? I Fed up that word badly:P

<degenerate108> shane gimmie a run down

01<Virillus> DOWing NPO next update.

<degenerate108> >

<shaneprice[GGA]> Well basically...

<shaneprice[GGA]> we were determining what we would need to do to find some new friends more in line with our current thinking.

<~Epiphanus> but 4 reals, give him an update

<shaneprice[GGA]> Since...IRON and NPO went off the rocker about CZ and JB

<degenerate108> it wasnt pretty thats for sure

<shaneprice[GGA]> Pip and Vir were explaining to me...who we may want to approach to make that happen.

<degenerate108> hey man im always up to making new friends

01<Virillus> When we discussed a treaty beforehand.

01<Virillus> GR unanimously supported extending relations.

<~Epiphanus> Degenerate, your problem lies with the fact that making new friends will require losing old ones.

<~Epiphanus> You guys have to make the decision of which way GGA wants to run its course in the future.

<degenerate108> its a tough spot to be in for sure, but i can see that there's definitely some wisdom in your words

<~Epiphanus> we aren't trying to convince you one way or another

<~Epiphanus> but, don't get me wrong

<~Epiphanus> like virillus said, we unanimously supported extending relations

<~Epiphanus> it isn't us you need to convince, it is our allies

<~Epiphanus> who I've told to Shane.

01<Virillus> THe biggest thing, I think, will simply be cold hard actions.

<~Epiphanus> Indeed.

<~Epiphanus> Releasing your PZI's is step one.

<~Epiphanus> Hypothetical step two would be releasing all PZI's and getting rid of your PZI policy

<~Epiphanus> that's just an idea of something that would look good

<~Epiphanus> not necessarily the course of action you should take

<shaneprice[GGA]> Actually..we were thinking about doing j

ust that.

<shaneprice[GGA]> I know there was at least talk

<degenerate108> lol we have been

01<Virillus> Good deal

<~Epiphanus> From the side of people GGA needs to impress, that would look good.

01<Virillus> Something you could do, that would also cement relations with some of your allies, would be to sign the ZIPP

<shaneprice[GGA]> ZIPP?

01<Virillus> ZI peace pact.

01<Virillus> VE Wrote and sponsored a treaty that says "We will never use PZI or EZI"

01<Virillus> A lot of alliances signed it. (Hyperion did:P)

<~Epiphanus> As did GR?

01<Virillus> I'm not sure, to be honest.

01<Virillus> It was pre-merge

<degenerate108> that should be something we look into shane

<shaneprice[GGA]> Degen...what do you think scotch would think?

01<Virillus> As an ex Atlantian, he of course has impeccable judgement;)

<degenerate108> mmm i cant see why scotch wouldnt agree

<~Epiphanus> I can guarantee you guys that myself and virillus are interested in helping you guys through the process of gaining allies with us, and the others that I've mentioned.

01<Virillus> Provided he capitalizes my name properly...

06* Virillus glares

<shaneprice[GGA]> degenerate...how close are we to moving the forums.

<degenerate108> ummmm

<degenerate108> i need a skin for it

<degenerate108> other than that

<~Epiphanus> does bilrow still own your forums?

<degenerate108> we're about ready

<shaneprice[GGA]> We are in the process of fixing that Pip

<~Epiphanus> heh, yeah if you guys leave OV it would be good to own your own forums

<~Epiphanus>

<~Epiphanus> As we've stated, we are interested in helping, Virillus and myself, but only because you have asked.

<~Epiphanus> And we aren't going to go out of our way to contact you about it.

<~Epiphanus> If you guys desire our opinion we will gladly give it.

<shaneprice[GGA]> Sure...I appreciate the input.

<shaneprice[GGA]> degen and I have been trying to hand out olive branches for a while.

<degenerate108> im a friendly guy, what can i say

<degenerate108>

01<Virillus> You've got a giant backlog of bad history to bash through, unfortunatly:P

<~Epiphanus> indeed

<~Epiphanus> good luck with all that

<degenerate108> we're everyone's favorite alliance to hate

<shaneprice[GGA]> Well...like I say...extremley positive response on that post.

01<Virillus> It's going to take a bit to convince people you're not just trying to trick the world intoo believing you've changed

<degenerate108> i should probably take a look at that thread, ive been busy most the night

01<Virillus> We're happy to try to talk to our allies to help things along. But before we go down that road, I (personally) would need some assurances that you're set intoo the path you're going to take.

<~Epiphanus> who all knows you guys are considering leaving OV?

<shaneprice[GGA]> Well that has only been broached...

<shaneprice[GGA]> the fact is if we continue on this path...it will happen.

06* Virillus nods

<~Epiphanus> so, the 4 people in this room plus SWR maybe?

<shaneprice[GGA]> Pretty much.

<~Epiphanus> My opinion, is that this is a good path for GGA to walk down.

01<Virillus> With no bias whatsoever:P

<~Epiphanus> Not true,

<~Epiphanus> Well only a small bias

<~Epiphanus> I mean let's face it, GR isn't in desperate need of GGA being our ally

<~Epiphanus> But, I think that if it is the choice you guys are willing to make (and it will take sacrifice) then it is one you should pursue

<~Epiphanus> So, last thoughts?

<~Epiphanus> because it's 3 am and I'm going to bed soon

<shaneprice[GGA]> Well we have a lot to think about.

<shaneprice[GGA]> We will let you know...

01<Virillus> Don't be strangers;)

01<Virillus> So how've things been, otherwise?

06* Virillus laughs

<shaneprice[GGA]> So far so good...stressful somtimes.

01<Virillus> I bet

01<Virillus> But I would imagine you get to listen in on some interesting conversations

<shaneprice[GGA]> You can please only some of the people at any given time.

<shaneprice[GGA]> Actually...we have been invited much to allied chats.

01<Virillus> Have been?

<~Epiphanus> Allied chats, as in current allies?

<~Epiphanus> or potential future ones?

<shaneprice[GGA]> current ones...not invited much

<~Epiphanus> so you haven't been invited much to allied chats?

<shaneprice[GGA]> Does not seem so.

<~Epiphanus> I'm off to bed.

<~Epiphanus> Shane, degenerate, it was nice to speak with you

<~Epiphanus> contact us again if you want to talk more on the subject

<~Epiphanus> toodles

<degenerate108> always a pleasure Epiphanus

As you can see, there was no conspiracy to declare war on NPO. They discussed the possibility of extending relations to old enemies in light of perceived mistreatment by One Vision. Who can blame them.

Do not be so arrogant to assume that all of it matches up; do not be so arrogant to assume that you know the real story. Not that anyone posting argumentatively against me in this thread will believe that there is more to the story, but I should say that you can not hope to assume that there was nothing said in the logs before what you have seen, or nothing said in other logs that you have seen.

WHAT'S LEFT TO KNOW?

Oh wait, I know it can still get worse.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Schattenmann

[shahenshah]

Well, if someone requested that we add someone to Invicta's ZI list, and then removed that person later without bothering to tell us, I'd be a bit annoyed.

(No it's never happened. Either one. )

Not to mention taking all the flak while doing it.

[magicninja]

I think the point isn't so much that he left as much as it is that he was told to leave.

So what business is it of everyone outside of GGA and her allies who they let stay or not?

[Chunky Monkey]

Do not be so arrogant to assume that all of it matches up; do not be so arrogant to assume that you know the real story. Not that anyone posting argumentatively against me in this thread will believe that there is more to the story, but I should say that you can not hope to assume that there was nothing said in the logs before what you have seen, or nothing said in other logs that you have seen.

Why dont you PM us the logs/screenshots then? If there was anything else to know we would know it. If you wont put up then shut up.

[Drai]

Do not be so arrogant to assume that all of it matches up; do not be so arrogant to assume that you know the real story. Not that anyone posting argumentatively against me in this thread will believe that there is more to the story, but I should say that you can not hope to assume that there was nothing said in the logs before what you have seen, or nothing said in other logs that you have seen.

Actually, being a rl friend of one of those people involved and seeing them for myself, there really was nothing of importance before or after.

[KungFuHamster]

As you can see, there was no conspiracy to declare war on NPO. They discussed the possibility of extending relations to old enemies in light of perceived mistreatment by One Vision. Who can blame them.

WHAT'S LEFT TO KNOW?

Oh wait, I know it can still get worse.

My apologies, I was merely attempting to insinuate that while Doitzel and others may present the side of the story which is most conveniently in opposition the the GGA, that does not suggest that it is in fact the entirety of the story, which you can read via the screen shots of the GGA Forums. Evidently thats public now

[King Srqt]

So what business is it of everyone outside of GGA and her allies who they let stay or not?

It is everyone's business because GGA came in here and mad a BS public statement (which can be found in my sig) and then continued to make multiple contradictory statements making themselves look stupid insulting everyone's intelligence and being all around entertaining. The GGA's allies tried to blame it all on VE. It really is an interesting thread I suggest you read it before trying to argue blind in it. But the bottom line is none of this would be happening if GGA did not bring it to public view.

[WarriorConcept]

I've never been a big FAN of GGA, but I think we could have gotten through this thread with a lot less rudeness. Seriously...telling an alliance to disband (jokingly or not) because they made a mistake which they felt was the best path for their alliance? You may disagree with their actions but that's no excuse for some of the horrible shots that have been thrown around in this thread. I'm disgusted.

What has this game turned in to.

Do you really consider what shane tried to do a mistake?

[Gruthenia]

I've never been a big FAN of GGA, but I think we could have gotten through this thread with a lot less rudeness. Seriously...telling an alliance to disband (jokingly or not) because they made a mistake which they felt was the best path for their alliance? You may disagree with their actions but that's no excuse for some of the horrible shots that have been thrown around in this thread. I'm disgusted.

What has this game turned in to.

Considering some of the underhanded moves GGA's made in their time I think it's rather disingenuous at worst or ignorant at best to cry for the poor persecuted GGA getting all this ridicule just because they merely removed a government member.

[King Srqt]

My apologies, I was merely attempting to insinuate that while Doitzel and others may present the side of the story which is most conveniently in opposition the the GGA, that does not suggest that it is in fact the entirety of the story, which you can read via the screen shots of the GGA Forums. Evidently thats public now

you have to think we were all born yesterday if you expect anyone to accept that perversion of facts as the whole story.

[WarriorConcept]

My apologies, I was merely attempting to insinuate that while Doitzel and others may present the side of the story which is most conveniently in opposition the the GGA, that does not suggest that it is in fact the entirety of the story, which you can read via the screen shots of the GGA Forums. Evidently thats public now

You know, it being public doesn't really help your case much here.

[Doitzel]

Do not be so arrogant to assume that all of it matches up; do not be so arrogant to assume that you know the real story. Not that anyone posting argumentatively against me in this thread will believe that there is more to the story, but I should say that you can not hope to assume that there was nothing said in the logs before what you have seen, or nothing said in other logs that you have seen.

If there was anything more to this story that could possibly be favourable to you I'm sure it would be getting spilled all over the place. If you're withholding it, it's probably just another dirty little secret. I think you're full of it but, you know, I'll find out one way or another.

[Kim Jaym Il]

So what business is it of everyone outside of GGA and her allies who they let stay or not?

When you bring your business to public view, expect people to comment on it.

[Drai]

If there was anything more to this story that could possibly be favourable to you I'm sure it would be getting spilled all over the place. If you're withholding it, it's probably just another dirty little secret. I think you're full of it but, you know, I'll find out one way or another.

I think he has seen logs from a different conversation (not involving those people, or at least Vir/Pip) that he got mixed up with the ones you posted.

[Virillus]

My apologies, I was merely attempting to insinuate that while Doitzel and others may present the side of the story which is most conveniently in opposition the the GGA, that does not suggest that it is in fact the entirety of the story, which you can read via the screen shots of the GGA Forums. Evidently thats public now

Actually... That's all she wrote.

[President Obama]

So what is exactly is the big deal? SP didn't like 1V so he left. Is there some huge conspiracy behind it all?

I would read the thread if I were you.

[Rayvon]

Do you really consider what shane tried to do a mistake?

You were around to see what happened last time someone had such a mistake thought.

[Ejayrazz]

So what business is it of everyone outside of GGA and her allies who they let stay or not?

When they bring it to public, what do you expect?

[Hyperion321]

Do you really consider what shane tried to do a mistake?

no, not at all. I consider getting rid of Shane being the mistake.

However, no matter what that mistake was, I honestly can't believe how much mud has been thrown at GGA in this thread.

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

This must honestly be the worst case of outright incompetence in PR damage control and governmental coordination in all my years on CN (+2); and apparently, this thread just keeps on giving (and giving and giving and giving), even after 55+ pages. A simple gag order on the first page by a Triumvir would have killed this beautifully hideous trainwreck.

magicninja: It's more a case of horrible PR management. GGA government has made so many contradictory and self-incriminating posts in this thread...throw in Vox screenshots of some very damning posts and government behavior...this was really a perfect storm.

OOC: I suggest you actually read through the thread, unless you are short on time. I got sucked in a few hours ago and all I can say is...it was worth it.

[Doitzel]

no, not at all. I consider getting rid of Shane being the mistake.

However, no matter what that mistake was, I honestly can't believe how much mud has been thrown at GGA in this thread.

Something my mother once told me about urinating into the wind comes to mind.

[WarriorConcept]

You were around to see what happened last time someone had such a mistake thought.

Even VE wasn't so colonized, I think Egore had more self-respect than that. In the end of it all Bilrow got VE killed for it leaving WUT and Bilrow is the one with the whip on GGA now preventing it from leaving.

[Thomas Jackson]

What could be learned from this that they already haven't figured out through ironchef/others they respect in backchannels? The most they could've gotten is that they should indeed stay close to NPO because half of CN wants to declare on them for no reason other than staying close to NPO. I'm not saying GGA comes out of this looking good by any means, but at least wish them the best of luck in improving off this mistake, however big it might be.

Meh, I'm chasing my (very small) tail now...I'm out for now.

Way I see it, this nightmare is a huge motivational tool to never let anything damn near this happen again. The way things are looking, it's pretty hard to be optimistic about their future as well.