Rush Sykes Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 That is true, which is why my first line was that LH screwed up. My point is should the rest of MInc be rolled for the actions of two people? When one is the person you CHOSE to lead, then yes. Absolutely. 100%, and I cannot even believe that you would question it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Spanier Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 I was in full-on agreement with you up until this sentence. On everything you said in every thread related to this situation. Some alliances deserve the diplomatic discourse, they have earned that standing through past diploacy and interactions. MInc, at every fire point in their history have been irrational. They define themselves, for lack of a better phrase, as rule breakers, and they wear the label proudly. They make it even more clear that this is how they can and will continue to engage on Planet Bob. Hence, diplomatic effort wasted by others, paved the road to exclude them from the right to diplomatic discourse. That's fair, I still think diplomacy should have been attempted, and as I implied, I didn't expect it to yield any results. This is because I'd be more concerned with the leaker than MInc, but to each their own on that issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) Maybe Atlas will fight better than in the previous war where they failed miserably....Maybe... Edited May 30, 2015 by the rebel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxasm Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 That is true, which is why my first line was that LH screwed up.My point is should the rest of MInc be rolled for the actions of two people? The rest of the members of MI chose to join. They've seen how stupid decisions their leaders are prone to making before. If they did not want to support their leaders in future bouts of stupidity, they should have left MI. I thought it was a long-standing principle in CN that membership is ultimately responsible for their choice of leadership? That's fair, I still think diplomacy should have been attempted, and as I implied, I didn't expect it to yield any results. This is because I'd be more concerned with the leaker than MInc, but to each their own on that issue. So the version of diplomacy you're suggesting is essentially "Hi, we're going to roll you"? Diplomacy seems rather futile when the desired outcome of it is war as a punishment for spying. It seems more straightforward to do as they actually did, and just declare the war right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaoshawk Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 You do not really need luck Atlas, but enjoy the wars you have. Chaos must die. Forward Atlas! Now now, there's no need for Chaos to die. A whole ton of them opened up today... but ITT people complaining about a legitimate CB, people complaining we didn't war MI enough already, and people complaining about the people complaining. There has not been a single war where someone didn't complain. I know you guys won't let it bother you, but that's how it is. That is true, which is why my first line was that LH screwed up. My point is should the rest of MInc be rolled for the actions of two people? Wars have been started for less and given a government member of an alliance was involved it does lend legitimacy to the declaration of war whether or not the casus belli given was the original reason they wanted to go to war. Given the other wars Monsters Inc. has been involved in, they have been making a series of errors that are certainly not making it easy on themselves. Although, the posts from their members here appears to show they do not really care and they're more than happy to fight so have at it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hombre Sabio Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Well said Chaoshawk. Monsters are more than happy to fight to the last pixel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexio15 Posted May 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Well said Chaoshawk. Monsters are more than happy to fight to the last pixel. Well considering circumstances always got to have fun :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) Atlas is the least of our attention tbh. They are truely aweful fighters Edited May 30, 2015 by Lord Hitchcock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dre4mwe4ver Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Atlas is the least of our attention tbh. They are truely aweful fighters As awful as your mastery of the English language? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Spanier Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 So the version of diplomacy you're suggesting is essentially "Hi, we're going to roll you"? Diplomacy seems rather futile when the desired outcome of it is war as a punishment for spying. It seems more straightforward to do as they actually did, and just declare the war right away. No, that's not what I said at all. You ask them to release the leaker. If you don't then you do your thing. I'd also like to mention that there's also another method everyone overlooked that I know has been utilized in the past: attack the leaker and the leaker only. If MInc responds, smash them, if not, then you got what you wanted. Either way, you win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) As awful as your mastery of the English language? I hate it when people don't know the difference between "your" and "you're"... their so stupid Edited May 31, 2015 by Lord Hitchcock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexio15 Posted May 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 I hate it when people don't know the difference between "your" and "you're"... their so stupid Pretty sure he got that spot on. Not sure you say you are grip of the English language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 not sure if your alliance has ever gripped a war guide :facepalm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tevron Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 not sure if your alliance has ever gripped a war guide :facepalm: You don't have any wars with Atlas. Your commentary is incredible. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexio15 Posted May 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 not sure if your alliance has ever gripped a war guide :facepalm: Damn it I knew we was missing something thank you for reminding us. Like seriously don't know what we would do without you, your experience is invaluable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kiloist Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Damn it I knew we was missing something thank you for reminding us. Like seriously don't know what we would do without you, your experience is invaluable. You mean to tell me you never read that damn thread labelled "War Guide (read this if you don't want to get rolled dipshit)"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexio15 Posted May 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 You mean to tell me you never read that damn thread labelled "War Guide (read this if you don't want to get rolled dip!@#$)"? Nah I must have missed it like everytime I look at my forums in our guide section. I mean lord hitchcock said it so I must have missed it. Although that's what we get for letting me constantly drink :O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rileyaddaff Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Nah I must have missed it like everytime I look at my forums in our guide section. I mean lord hitchcock said it so I must have missed it. Although that's what we get for letting me constantly drink :OIf you ask nicely, he might give you the screenshots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canik Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 No, that's not what I said at all. You ask them to release the leaker. If you don't then you do your thing. I'd also like to mention that there's also another method everyone overlooked that I know has been utilized in the past: attack the leaker and the leaker only. If MInc responds, smash them, if not, then you got what you wanted. Either way, you win. In the scenerios where that was used in the past, the alliance harboring the leaker doesn't usually have their leader widen the leak and act so arrogantly/disrespectful towards the victim alliance. Especially not when the harboring alliance is in a much weaker position. It's Hitchcock's extreme actions that caused a more extreme response than usual. The fault lies entirely with him, not Atlas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Spanier Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 In the scenerios where that was used in the past, the alliance harboring the leaker doesn't usually have their leader widen the leak and act so arrogantly/disrespectful towards the victim alliance. Especially not when the harboring alliance is in a much weaker position. It's Hitchcock's extreme actions that caused a more extreme response than usual. The fault lies entirely with him, not Atlas. The leak wasn't widened, the leak was the same amount, MInc just decided to do with it the worst thing possible. I did not say the fault lies on Atlas, earlier in this thread I was very clear that MInc had everything coming to them. I'm glad people promptly forgot that the second they disagreed with a singular aspect of my stance, elsewise I might have forgotten that there are only two possible options regarding the 'right and wrong' position. I strongly implied multiple occasions that it's what I would have done, and it would have been based on precedent, but I also conceded Atlas doing what they did was still legitimate. Do not confuse suggested alternatives as fanatical opposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canik Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 It was widen in the sense that he shared it on the OWF, increasing the amount of people who saw the screenshots. Anyway, good to hear you don't think Atlas's DoW was inappropriate. MI was asking for it about as hard as it can possibly be asked for. Apologies for the misinterpreting your words. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Spanier Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 It was widen in the sense that he shared it on the OWF, increasing the amount of people who saw the screenshots. Anyway, good to hear you don't think Atlas's DoW was inappropriate. MI was asking for it about as hard as it can possibly be asked for. Apologies for the misinterpreting your words. :) I hear you, and I concur. We just use different methodology to our terminology to the same ends, and both agree Lord Hitchcock's move was a mistake. It angered Atlas as it would any alliance, and that's all that matters at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabcat Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Just had a look at some wars and stuff. Why is half of Atlas in PM? My god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Just had a look at some wars and stuff. Why is half of Atlas in PM? My god. I would of said second wave, but looks more like they thought MI would have allies coming to laugh at Alas....I mean declare on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 I don't see anything compelling in here for Atlas not to have declared war on MI. I am so far removed from caring about this that I just today learned that TSO is not The Sweet Oblivion. The masking, etc. none of that really matters. There is spying as being the actor, and there is spying as being a participant; the latter is why it worked when VE completely fabricated that war with a spying CB by hiring a spy to go spy and give the info to an AA they wanted to hit. If I did what the MI guy did, I would expect to be looking at a war or paying reps or expelling a member. The only thing I personally see is that this is overkill. But overkill necessarily also means considerations of the time involved. If Atlas is still refusing peace in a month, or starts making stupid demands, then it's a different world of judgement. (And about twenty other folks, only one one of whom, unfortunately, has been permanently banished. Hmmm. I guess I can remove him. Meh. Nahhhhh.) Testes, testes, 1, 2 ... 3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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